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 Now online (1)belb ...and 72 guests Last 5 registered Oplandisks nothingstar N_loop yipe foxtrotromeo Browse members... |
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dude, re-read what he posted. |
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I think we need to do one of those threads where everyone repeats variations of a certain phrase every post. Like the LTJ Bukem giving thanks and comebacks one. Except we need to do it with the soundbytes we're hearing for the terror plot. Lighten up the situation anyway. To be serious though, I don't give a shit about terrorism. More people die in the US and UK from falling down the stairs, probably. I don't care that some planes almost got hijacked. So what? Getting killed by a terrorist is still like winning the lottery. |
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Untold death and destruction, quite frankly. Quite frankly, mass terrorists. |
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Yeah, getting killed by a terrorist is awesome, it's like being part of the zeitgeist. |
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have you ever tried to understand why they do it? |
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zeitgeist of the noughies. terrorists and das krazy frog. |
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because they are noobs? |
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Because they're selfish cunts. |
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:( they have legitimate grievences though.. i'll agree with you that the tactics of terrorists are abominable and inexcusable, but not bothering to understand where they're coming from and instead just labelling them as selfish cunts won't do anything to defuse the situation.. |
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It's pretty obvious I'm kidding. I don't really, actually believe that being blown to tiny pieces by a religious fanatic is "awesome". |
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i understood that when i posed my question |
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I assume terrorists want change, reform or to elimate certain people from power? If thats the case then they think exactly like me only I don't kill people like a stupid noob. |
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I understand where they're coming from but I refuse to sympathise with them. |
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I can understand the reasons in a dry, technical sense, but I have no empathy with either the fundamentalist christians that support Bush or the Islamic jihad. I woudn't make any statements defending either of them. |
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i sympathise with their aim of destroying democracy and returning to the Dark Ages. It'd be so much more... real, man. |
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As far as they see it, they're visiting on the western world what's been visited on their "muslim brothers" for the past however many hundreds of years. You might say, however, the Jews have never gone bezerk and staged similar terrorist campaigns (perhaps they have, there are those mentalist hard-liners, as there are with any religion) against the perpetrators of horrid campaigns of violence and persecution against their brothers.. but still. i don't know, i just don't know, i just wish everyone on both sides would put their emotions aside and see things from others' perspectives and start being constructive. i feel like the whole global society is crumbling bit by bit every day and it discomforts me. giginger - that's fair enough. then you acknowledge that the reason why they stage bombing campaigns, or campaigns of any kind of terror, is not due to their selfishness? |
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democracy in the western world is an illusion |
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if america told the truth for just one day, the world would fall apart |
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Who here would rather live in an Islamic Fundamentalist state like Iran or Yemen rather than a western country like the UK or US? Maybe your existence in the middle east would be more "spiritual" and have "meaning". |
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The answer to your question is neither here nor there; it's irrelevent. Out of all the crazy extremists, there is only a handful of nuts who want to establish states that follow islamic law in the west (Abu Hamza being a notable one - i believe he stated that he was striving to see the islamic flag flying outside westminister) |
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I don't beleive that we will ever see an Islamic state in the west, that would be right-wing alarmism. I genuinely meant the question. Could you imagine being happier living a very strict religious lifestyle? I put those words in quotes because everybody has a differnet idea of what they mean. Personally, I am way too decadant. |
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No, as a westerner, I don't think i could. But had I been born into it, it'd be a different matter, as it would be for you. That's why their lifestyle is so alien to us, and ours alien to them. As far as I'm concerned, as long as they uphold human rights, I couldn't give two shits. Diversity of lifestyle and people is great. |
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But isn't it impossible for any religious fundamentalist to uphold human rights if their holy book prohibits something like homosexuality or bare flesh or eating fish on a Friday or whatever? |
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wait a minute these arab homos are gonna ban fish? |
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ha |
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Yes, even christian fundies. Like when they send their gay kids to straight camp. |
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i work with an iranian chappy who's dad was a general in the army duringt he iran-iraq war and he's laid out some intersting facts: -iran is officially islamic but most young people couldn't give a toss and enjoy raving/sex as much as the rest of us. They joke a lot about islamic fundamentalism and are basically tired of the current admin but too fatigued to change it and just want out of the place. - they're well clued into american imperialism - iranian secret service has lots of sleeper cells in western countries... if iranian soverignty was threathened then al queda would look like charlie brown and freinds going on a picnic. - iranians hate arabs (iraq, saudi etc) - Saddam did more good ashit for iraq than bad shit.. read the wikipedia artcile on him.. its qute positive about him. Now look at that region. Hapy days! |
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I don't really think the label of "terrorist" is specific or meaningful anymore. Seems like a reasonable definition would be: someone who instigates fear, usually though violent means, in order to achieve a particular aim. Well, the entire planet's done that at some point or another. I can't figure out why people pay terrorism so much attention. Is it because it's usually directed at civilians? Is that what we base the distinction between terrorist attacks and legal acts of war on? If that IS the distinction, then.. well, every war has civilian casualties. Whether they're intentional or not is pretty irrelevant. Far as I can tell, terrorists are just a shitty group that's less organized, less financially supported, much smaller and far less effective at killing people than a regular army. For those of you in the US -- remember the Oklahoma City bombing? That was just as close to home as 9/11. And yet there wasn't a years-long scare about domestic terrorism. I don't see how 9/11 was very different. People crash planes into buildings and put bombs on trains. Until it starts to be comparable to a REAL war, or cancer or AIDS or drunk driving deaths, I don't think it deserves the attention it gets. Trying to analyze why terrorists blow shit up is kind of silly. First of all, there's no single reason or set of reasons. We're talking about entirely different groups, each with their own motives. And within those groups are individuals who in turn have their own personal motives. Second of all, people have never needed a particularly good reason to kill people. Just because they're really pissed off doesn't mean there's some dark secret that only they know about, some offense the west committed that all of us are totally ignorant of. Redrum, your feelings on everyone being constructive are admirable but naive. Selfishness is necessary for survival for human beings, organizations, countries etc. Sometimes that means killing people. |
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In retrospect, i did sound like a bit of a child in that post. Still, I think what you conclude with is completely wrong and a product of your surroundings.. Kaniving (sp?) and manipulative people in the race-to-the-top of the world's most ruthlessly capitalist system. I'd agree with all this undue attention though. The reason is, i believe, the republicans need to beat the public about the head with the fear stick so that they'll get their trusty commander-in-chief re-elected; so that he can take care of them and protect them from all the badness. |
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also, your dismissal of my insistance that people try to understand why terrorists do what they do is ignorant and the adoption of that kind of attitude only serves to speed up the doomsday clock. these terrorists have many grievances, yes. does the fact that there's a multitude of them excuse you from examining them and asking yourself whether they're valid or not? of course not. it should do the exact opposite and compel you even more forcefully to examine them. |
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they won't let people take toothpaste onto the planes. this was absolutely no inconvenience to the English. AHH HAHAHAHAHA!!!11!!! |
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at least the british can see their own fucking feet |
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(good one, though. honest.) |
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it's true, the americans are pissed because all our favorite cheeses are in liquid or gel form. |
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AMERICA IS SETTING ITS OWN AGENDA TO MAKE POSSIBLE ITS TOTAL GLOBAL ECONOMIC MILITARY CONTROL IN THE NEW AMERICAN CENTURY WE'RE TALKING 25 -50 YR PLANS HERE THE CLIMATE OF FEAR / WAR ON TERROR AND EVERYTHING ELSE ARE NECESSARY STEPS IN THE PLAN THAT WILL SUPPOSEDLY HELP ALLOW THE USA TO ACHIEVE ITS GOALS |
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The reason for the undue attention cannot be an effort to reelect Bush. This is his second term, American presidents are only allowed two terms. He's out in just a couple years (finally). I'm not saying it's a bad idea to figure out the motives of particular groups or individuals. Just that asking "why" with respect to terrorism in general is silly. It's as silly as asking, "why do people kill each other?" You said that terrorists have legitimate grievances. That's so sweeping and broad a statement that it's absolutely unprovable. You're saying that the people who tried to blow up those airplanes leaving Heathrow have legitimate grievances? You don't even know who they ARE. Last I heard the only information the public's got on the people arrested is that there are about twenty of them, and some of them are Egyptian. And those people haven't even been convicted yet, so -- point is -- you don't know shit about these people's grievances. But (I presume) you're associating these particular anonymous hijackers with OTHER "terrorists" that you DO know about. In other words, you're just lumping them all together. Various groups with various and, in all probability, sometimes conflicting motivations. All lumped into one group that you can sympathize with. I'm not going to analyze the motivations of some imaginary global association of terrorism, nor will I shed a tear for it. Just like how I wouldn't analyze the motivations of Santa Claus, for a like reason: he doesn't exist |
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So yeah, you basically just conjured up imaginary reasons for why these hijackers tried to blow up the planes coming out of Heathrow, then sympathized with them and bled your heart out. You made them up so you could cry for them. |
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so these chavs developed a stable form of liquid nitroglycerin? yeah right |
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you make just about anything explosive with soap and orange juice |
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well, maybe the Ameri-British government made these terrorists up in the first place, so in the end it all evens out. :P |
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my terrorism is to make what i really like ... |
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Who is the girl in your avatar? |
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I was talking about his re-election that occured.. what is it.. 2 years ago? And anyway, the fear can be used for other purposes at this point in time. for convincing people that the infringements on their civil liberties are justified. for excusing wire-tapping, guantanamo, flights of "extraordinary rendition", etc etc etc. As for the rest of your post, you talk about me knowing nothing of the would-be-hijackers' personal grievances. That's true. And that there's no worldwide terrorist organisation. That too, is true. But, regardless of the fact that there is no material organisation that is "al-quaeda", there is still its ideology, and that is its essence. It is what drives these terrorists, who, contrary to what you say, do, for the most part, have the same grievances - - hatred for the israelis and americans for what Israel has done to neighbouring states and inside the occupied territories for decades now, - resentment of american army presence on their holy lands - resentment of the influence of western culture on their traditional values the first two are absolutely valid. the third is debatable. What i'm saying is, fair play, you don't subscribe to all the al-quaeda scarmongering. But there is an ideology of violence, driven by the grievances i've outlined in this post, which is the common denominator between all of the islamist terrorists coming to the fore nowadays. |
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looks like lily allen who is a fad chav |
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You know what, I'd find Lily Allen sort of cute if I didn't know her dad was Keith Allen. She reminds me of him too much. |
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mmm yes im cutie* |
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Redrum, you're right about the fear being used for those things. I completely agree. " there is still its ideology, and that is its essence. It is what drives these terrorists, who, contrary to what you say, do, for the most part, have the same grievances" You're just repeating the same mistake you already made -- lumping these unknown hijackers with the better known terrorists whose ambitions you think you understand. You don't know the Heathrow hijackers' ideologies or grievances. You are assuming they are similar to the particular ones you are familiar with. The only reason I take offense to you acting so self assured when you're declaring that these people have legitimate reasons is this: it makes you seem like an apologist for terrorism. Yes, you put down the standard disclaimer of "violence is inexcusable and awful", but ultimately your objective here seems to be rationalizing and legitimizing terrorist attacks. Which is fine by me, except in this situation with the Heathrow hijackers, you don't know shit about them, but you're STILL trying to legitimize their actions. I'm compelled to ask, why would you give the benefit of the doubt to a bunch of strangers whose goal was to commit suicide by blowing up themselves along with thousands of innocents, women and children included? |
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Wouldn't people safer if we called it Heathrow Hijinks instead of hijacking? |
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*feel |
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insane story |
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