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 (nobody)...and 487 guests Last 5 registered Oplandisks nothingstar N_loop yipe foxtrotromeo Browse members... |
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Members 8025Messages 2614128 Today 7 Topics 127542 |
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I have been thinking about this for a while, but I don't really know if it'll work out or if it has already been done... basically, the idea is to make a piano that isn't "tempered." The way I figure it, it'll have to be two different strings (or string-sets.. pianos use three strings to make one tone, I think) (one for the lows and one for the highs), and they will, instead of going straight back (or up) from the keys, have to run paralell with the keys. They keys are only two octaves (one for each hand and thus each string), and they are not stuck in one place, but can be moved up and down the two strings.. erh.. I'll make a drawing instead... it's not a very technical or detailed drawing, but... |
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im confused but arent piano strings seperate for each note, like a diff strring for each key and the hammers just hit the string |
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are you planning on making pianofied versions of country & western classics? |
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i came up with this,now my brain hurts |
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yeah, but not on THE SLIDE PIANO! |
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that too, yes. |
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life's a bitch, ain't it? |
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im not sure it would be possible becauise u cant fret the string in a sense and ud need alot of pressure if it was a guitar slide type thing. also will u need to strike the note with one hand and slide some soprta device up and down for notes? |
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i like this idea |
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:) |
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eh? 12 keys to each hand - 24 alltogether... they are on moving plates with a small metallic slide-ish thingie on the leftmost or rightmost side, and this slide touches the string and avoids the bad resonances. the hammers hit the strings as they would normal strings, producing the "normal" piano sound... |
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i kinda get it i dunno slightly confuzzelled but i say do it get an old piano and do it and then u can let me come play it and understand what u eman |
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yeah, I'm going to talk it over with a friend with some skills in building stuff, my cousin, who is a near-genious when it comes to music and a professor I know with a degree in acoustics... I wonder if it'll work... |
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thank you! sadly, I will now have to depart for a while, but if anyone knows about anything like this or have any ideas/objections, input them in the replybox and press reply. |
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i ahve no idea but it sounds like a good idea if not very bemusing |
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Interesting. I think the end result would probably sound like a steel guitar, as someone kind of pointed out. I'm not sure if I understand completely, but this seems like it would have to be set up so that it'd be a single sliding 'key' for each string, because if it was a group of keys that slid along one string, each key would just play the same note. |
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they'd play different notes, but each "hand" or octave - as drunke has set it up - will be monophonic. |
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i've just thought of a very important flaw in the plan. as any string player will tell you, as the move up in pitch the distance between notes becomes smaller and smaller. you can see this quite clearly on the ukelele fretboard below. |
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^ the move... = you move... |
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So, do you mean that there would be sets of 12 keys that all play the same note, and the note they'd play would depend on the "octave's" position? If that's the case, you really wouldn't need more than 5 keys for each set, and even then, I would think that quickly striking the same string with more than one hammer would usually result in the note being deadened. If each key moved independently and there was some sort of slide device to the side of each key, then the pitch of every key would depend on the placement of each surrounding key, which I think would provide some dissonant, but interesting results. Also it'd probably sound kind of shitty if you struck a loud note on a single string with multiple slide-type devices resting on it. Maybe I still don't understand the concept of this. |
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the way i understood it was that as each key was pressed a hammer would strike the string at a predetermined point on the string and produce a note, but just before the hammer strikes, another device would move up/down to the now note's position. This second device would be like the slide on a guitarists finger, providing a new length of vibrating string. i think i may have to draw this.... |
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actually scrap that description, it didn't make sense. i'll draw it. |
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I understand now I think. But one problem would be creating a slide device that could touch the string quickly enough, but without being audible itself, and also automatically touch the string before the hammer. It'd probably be tricky to create a mechanism for each key that creates a lag between the initial pressing of the key and the actual striking of the note. |
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you could either have a sliding device which moves for each key or just have a sliding device for each octave of keys [as drawn below] |
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Ah. I'd like to hear one of these in action now. I'm sure you could do a lot of creepy sounding stuff, what with the microtones and everything. The idea of this kind of reminds me of the ondes martenot, though that was technically an electronic instrument. |
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yeah, that's what i thought of when i first saw the topic title :) |
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hey hmm... i'm also interested in building instruments, not so much action or even serious planning yet, only thinking and some guitar, hammered dulcimer and piano preparation... if you have access to a piano, (and even better if no-one minds you removing the front wall (on upright)) you should really take a look, it's pretty interesting and maybe not as simple as one might think.. clavichord action would be simpler to make self i think (just can't find a page explaining it now). (instead) here's a nice schematic of upright piano action: pianos have 1 string per key in the bass, 2 strings in the middle section and 3 in the top octaves.. making it >200 strings total... anyway, if i got it right you would only use two strings in the instrument? if it's like that you would only be able to play two notes at a time! and this would make the keyboards useless, two keys would do the same thing.. also the fretting/sliding would probably be very difficult to make it sound good. also the idea is a little bit like the one found in hurdy-gurdys and the like: only that this makes the sound by "bowing" and not hitting and glissando is not possible. good luck figuring the things out. i hope you post here if you make progression or new plans! |
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This is an interesting idea and exactly the sort of thing that XLT needs more of. I wish I had something that hasn't already been said to contribute, but I would only really be helpful in explaining the basics, as I spend 900% more time playing instruments each day than I do trying to understand them. :) |
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i made the beergan,doesnt work but looks good. |
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i think every studio/rehearsal space needs a beergan! |
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I think I'll never understand. on the leftmost or rightmost side ? Do you consider air pressure ? humidity ? sound absorption ? ohhh, nothing... What about a piano amplifier ? |
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just working on the kebabgan,what more would you need:) |
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ever seen a rhodes piano? that's basically a piano with pickups... hanal: how about a |
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yeap,i feel a band forming here. |
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yes I've seen. but only emulations. a piano with pickups ? ahhahahhaaa sorry but I don't understand... also weedgan potgan budgan hashgan is totally incomprehensible for me, I'm sorry about that. oh shit, it was hanal's pointed out... that's cool anyway. good night. |
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actually, fender rhodes is not technically a piano.. pianos use strings, rhodes has these that's why the sound is a bit more like a vibraphone... there are some "real" electric "stage" pianos using strings and pickups though, made in the 70-80s, like and the very cool .. |
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...as played by the pianist out of keane. the cp70, that is. |
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last,the stalagan |
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aah cool, i'd like to hear more of the cp70.. (as i've mostly heard it from some shitty 80's overly chorused pop songs.) can you recommend any keane track with the cp? doesn't need to be a good song, just want to hear the piano... |
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i dunno, it's nothing amazing. they're just the usual UK pop act, just have a look. the only track title i can remember is "everything's changing" |
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yes, i probably won't like the music at all : ) , just want to hear the piano... oh maybe he only uses it live? but hey i'll do some googling, so you don't have to bother answering me : ) |
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seems similar to these really cool korean microtonal instruments i can never remember the name of. oh, here it is, |
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littlesister: ah, thanks for reminding me of that `the higher the pitch, the closer the notes,` and yes: it will only be able to produce two tones at a time.. unless I do something to avoid the issue of intervals becoming smaller by for instance having two string sets of which only parts are played upon at different positions... oh, this is hard to explain, but I`m talking slightly angled strings. also, the way I figure, the slide won`t be separate from the two octaves.. there`s one attached to the left/rightmost side of each octave, and slides with the octave as you move your hand and the octave. there will also have to be a really effective `dampening` pedal... fat kaimo: yeah, I`ve played around with the strings on pianos before, just never in a place where I could actually record... I love that sound you get if you hold the strings and do a `pulloff` after striking the key.. erh.. it`s a bit hard to explain, but I`ll try to record next time. |
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You know, the simplest way I could see that being done is to have a mechanism at one of the ends of the piano (either the front or the back), that tightens the strings or loosens them with a lever that you pull on for control. |
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that'd make it a "bend piano" instead of a "slide-piano." I've started thinking of.. "longer" hammers and more strings. to avoid the issue with the intervals. The strings would be going in the same direction as I originally thought, but they'd be angled upwards in such a way that you'd only touch the low ones on the left side and the bright ones on the right... I don't know if it'd work yet.. got to think about it. |
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well, in that case instead of having the mechanism pull the strings, have the strings lengthened, or the unit itself lengthened, or even tuned to a higher octave, and then have the bar resting lightly on the strings, so that when the lever is pulled or pushed, then it moves up or down the strings, creating an effect similar to a slide guitar. |
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i wouldn't like to tune that piano! |
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I'm not sure what you mean, but I don't think I'll do any "bend lever" thingie.. it strains the strings too, making them go detuned. |
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i'm no help at all for this project, but i wanted to say, i like your avatar a lot. and good luck for the piano. : ) |
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Dude, keep it simple! Seriously, the thing is, it doesn't need to push against them. It just needs to rest against them lightly. It will stop any vibrations going past it. |
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