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qrter
from the future, and it works (Netherlands, The) on 2005-07-21 12:27 [#01671051]
Points: 47414 Status: Moderator | Followup to ecnadniarb: #01671032
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I'm not so sure, seeing as most large retailers like Wal-Mart have pulled the game based on the new AO-rating.. (and apparently a lot of people buy their games at these places).
ESRB slaps dreaded rating on controverial best-seller
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ecnadniarb
on 2005-07-21 12:29 [#01671052]
Points: 24805 Status: Lurker | Followup to qrter: #01671051 | Show recordbag
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Which is exactly what happened over manhunt.
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qrter
from the future, and it works (Netherlands, The) on 2005-07-21 12:30 [#01671055]
Points: 47414 Status: Moderator | Followup to ecnadniarb: #01671052
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is it?
I didn't follow that very well, "manhunt" seemed such an incredibly dumb game to begin with. :P
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Duble0Syx
from Columbus, OH (United States) on 2005-07-21 16:00 [#01671366]
Points: 3436 Status: Lurker
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Only in the US is sex worse than murder I guess. The game is going to be re-released by the end of the year with a MA rating again and the "sexually explicit" content removed. I don't get how changing it from MA to AO will keep it away from kids though since it's not law to ID for games no matter what. A retailer can sell a 10 year old GTA legally even if it's rated AO. There will also be a patch soon removing it from existing copies. Personally I think any violent game needs some sex. It helps to keep a healthy balance. Everyone in the US is sexually repressed which causes the high murder rates and wars. :) More Sex!
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qrter
from the future, and it works (Netherlands, The) on 2005-07-21 16:33 [#01671410]
Points: 47414 Status: Moderator
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from a daily column over at gamespot:
"I can't help but wonder if the "Hot Coffee" content would have created such a stir if Rockstar had openly chosen to include it in GTA: San Andreas as an unlockable bonus feature. For those of us old enough to play the game legally, I'm pretty sure that consensual sex (or at least the quest for it) plays a much larger role in our everyday lives than gang warfare, vehicle theft, or the random killing of people on the street. That those things would be considered more acceptable in a game than sex seems absurd to me, regardless of the age rating."
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Aesthetics
from the IDM Kiosk on 2005-07-21 17:02 [#01671440]
Points: 6796 Status: Lurker
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I just applied the newest patch and see what happened!! :S.
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w M w
from London (United Kingdom) on 2005-07-22 01:58 [#01671782]
Points: 21458 Status: Regular
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Uh, for the record I think this game is awesome now; better than gta3. Riding motorcycles in the countryside is great. My negative remarks were premature.
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Ceri JC
from Jefferson City (United States) on 2005-07-22 02:33 [#01671791]
Points: 23533 Status: Moderator | Followup to Duble0Syx: #01671366 | Show recordbag
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"Only in the US is sex worse than murder I guess."
It cracks me up that in a game where (already) you can pick up prostitutes, go to a lap dancing club, act as a pimp and there's a large purple dildo as a melee weapon, the act of consensual sex between an adult male and female, after a date,(in a manogamous relationship, if the player chooses), with no genitals on show, akin to the sort of sex scenes you'd get in a 15 rated movie, but with blocky low resolution model sprites, suddenly makes it 'adult'.
I also agree that had they never cut this content in the first place, it would never have been such a big deal.
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qrter
from the future, and it works (Netherlands, The) on 2005-07-27 21:59 [#01677152]
Points: 47414 Status: Moderator | Followup to Ceri JC: #01671791
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oh it gets even worse.
yet again from good ol' gamespot:
Take-Two sued, confirms FTC investigation
[UPDATE] As the feds circle, San Andreas TV ads are pulled, and a class-action lawsuit against the publisher is filed in US District Court. The Hot Coffee scandal advanced on two fronts today.
First, the parent company of Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas publisher Rockstar Games, Take-Two Interactive, confirmed that its advertising practices were indeed the subject of a Federal Trade Commission inquiry. On Monday, the US House of Representatives voted overwhelmingly in favor of such an investigation.
Specifically, the FTC's Division of Advertising Practice is looking into how San Andreas was promoted, and to whom, to determine if Take-Two was culpable in misleading the public. The company said it "intends to fully cooperate with the FTC inquiry, and believes that it acted in accordance with all applicable laws and regulations."
The Take-Two statement went on to say that Rockstar and Take-Two "regret that consumers may have been exposed to content that was not intended to be accessible in the playable version of Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas." However, Take-Two reiterated its contention that the Hot Coffee code was the result of a "third-party modification."
Despite such admonishments, Take-Two is facing legal trouble of another kind...in civil court. This morning, according to the Associated Press, a lawsuit was filed against the publisher in the Southern District of New York. According to the AP, plaintiff Florence Cohen claims she was "damaged" after learning of the sex minigames hidden in San Andreas, as she had bought what she thought was an M-for-Mature-rated game for her grandson.
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qrter
from the future, and it works (Netherlands, The) on 2005-07-27 22:00 [#01677153]
Points: 47414 Status: Moderator | Followup to qrter: #01677152
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cont.
Her complaint seeks class-action status for purchasers of San Andreas and relies on four causes of action; the complaint accuses Take-Two of committing or engaging in "Consumer Deception" (based on New York State General Business Law statutes, section 349), "False Advertising" (based on New York State General Business Law statutes, section 350), "Common Law Fraud," and "Unjust Enrichment."
Damages sought are in excess of $5 million, the complaint says. Cohen is seeking a jury trial to determine culpability.
Ironically, the charges of "false advertising" come as television spots for San Andreas continue to run. This week, GameSpot editors saw firsthand 30-second TV ads for the Xbox version of the game running on Comedy Central and MTV, both owned by media giant Viacom. The ads have been altered since the ESRB revoked the game's M rating last week, ending with the words "Rated AO for 'Adults Only.'"
[UPDATE] Some gamers took this as a sign of defiance on the part of Rockstar. However, a representative for the publisher told Gamespot the ads were from a media buy made prior to the FTC investigation, and would stop running as of today.
Even before today's developments were known, one industry analyst said Take-Two is facing "headline and regulatory risks" as a result of the Hot Coffee scandal. In a memo to investors, UBS' Mike Wallace said the danger to Take-Two will persist until resolution is reached. "Whether or not the inquiry results in a penalty (that is, a fine) remains to be seen," Wallace said, "but if GTA needs to get reworked, this may impact the consumer appeal of the game going forward." From a purely financial perspective, Wallace said he believes the "numbers for TTWO could be at risk over the next few quarters."
At press time, Take-Two was trading up just over a dollar at $24.63.
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Ceri JC
from Jefferson City (United States) on 2005-07-28 04:28 [#01677234]
Points: 23533 Status: Moderator | Show recordbag
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Quite how the game wasn't AO in the first place beggars belief. Also, can an American clarify the state of the mature 'M' rating? I thought that that was effectively a 17 as opposed to an 18? Is this only if the 17 year old buys it themself? IE is it perfectly legal for an adult (not the parent, I might add) to buy an M rated game for a 16 year old, or for that matter, a child of any age?
WTF was an 85 year old grandmother doing buying her 14 year old kid a 17 rated game anyway? Surely she forfited all right to be 'damaged' by the content when she acted in this way? It will be a sad day indeed if she makes any money out of this.
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zero-cool
on 2005-07-28 04:45 [#01677249]
Points: 2720 Status: Lurker
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you need to buy the xbox version so that you can upload Aphex unto the harddrive and listen to it while you fly in a car to the other side of the world
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Ceri JC
from Jefferson City (United States) on 2005-07-28 05:24 [#01677281]
Points: 23533 Status: Moderator | Followup to zero-cool: #01677249 | Show recordbag
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Indeed. The Caretaker - Selected Memories from the Haunted Ballroom and Company Flow - Superfuncrusher are some of my most listened to during GTA:SA sessions.
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Aesthetics
from the IDM Kiosk on 2005-07-28 12:04 [#01677675]
Points: 6796 Status: Lurker
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You need to buy the pc version so that you can play all the music thats on the harddrive and listen to it while you fly in a car to the other side of the world.
The US prefers 17 year old lads to steal cars, rob and kill people over let them have sex.
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mylittlesister
from ...wherever (United Kingdom) on 2005-07-28 12:12 [#01677687]
Points: 8472 Status: Regular
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sod listening to music thru the game, just have winamp running in the background :)
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qrter
from the future, and it works (Netherlands, The) on 2005-07-28 17:23 [#01677969]
Points: 47414 Status: Moderator | Followup to Ceri JC: #01677234
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some kind of answer, perhaps:
"You can't just say, "So what? I'm over 18. I'll be able to buy any game no matter what they're rated anyway." If you actually believe that, then ask yourself when was the last time you saw an NC-17 movie playing in a movie theater? Do you really think big-box stores like Wal-Mart or Best Buy would actually carry an AO-rated game? Do you think that big publishers, who will be risking even more money on every game in the next generation, would ever fund a project that could end up getting tagged AO, and then as a result doesn't get carried by the biggest retailers? Unless your name is Pollyanna, you probably answered no to the last two questions. No matter what your age is, or what country you live in (apologies in advance to Europe--in this case you are beholden to America's lingering Puritanical values), the resolution of this "Hot Coffee" scandal could indeed affect the way you game."
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Taxidermist
from Black Grass on 2005-07-29 01:44 [#01678124]
Points: 9958 Status: Lurker
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Whatever the reasons they are saying, their has been a government hate-on for the grand theft auto series since it became a 3d series. They have been looking for reasons to cause it from being removed from shelves for a long time, but under the freedom of speech yada whatever, they couldn't let it fly. But now that they have obsenity as a thing to hide behind, it can be pursued as though its misrepresented itself in selling pornography to minors. Unfortunately, now this sets a precident in american law for them to pursue other games that they feel threaten the american way of life. This is just america taking an opportunity to throw around its newly branded form of purity.
Anyways, once again, peace out.
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Ceri JC
from Jefferson City (United States) on 2005-07-29 02:41 [#01678146]
Points: 23533 Status: Moderator | Followup to Taxidermist: #01678124 | Show recordbag
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I can remember calls to ban even the first (top down) one in the first month or so after its release.
The analogy with films given in the article qrter linked is a good one. In order to get films shown to as many people as possible, more extreme (but not neccessarily gratuitous)scenes are edited out. Normally with film, this is then usually restored either at a later date (when it seems tame in comparison), or on the home DVD release as an 'uncut' version.
Given that games are almost always played at home, it seems reasonable that they should be uncut from the outset, but unfortunately it seems more likely that such content will in future be cut. On the bright side, how much does the hot coffee mod/picking up hookers really add to GTA? Okay, beating an enemy to death with a dildo makes you crack a smile, but it doesn't make a huge difference to the meat (no pun intended) of the game. Would you really miss it if it weren't there? Whilst it's a shame to stifle creativity with censorship, I can't see a banning of violence (it is America that'll lead this legislation, after all) and if sex is an integral part of the storyline, it can usually be conveyed 'tastefully' the way is in 12/15 rated movies, without harming the story or the actual game in any way.
How often have you seen a game based around sex that is actually entertaining to play? A lot of the games that really are pornographic (as opposed to a game with sex in it), strip poker, etc. are not very good games. The only one I can think of is some of the earlier Leisure Suit Larry games, but even they were weak compared to lucasarts equivalents.
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Taxidermist
from Black Grass on 2005-07-29 04:44 [#01678187]
Points: 9958 Status: Lurker | Followup to Ceri JC: #01678146
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I am taking a risk in replying more than once every couple of days, but here you go. It doesn't really effect the gameplay, or story or anything at all, but it does certainly set a precident for the government for how they will deal with game companies like this in the future. As well, such a high profile case, is going to get some copycats. We see the 5 million dollar suit that is being pressed against rockstar now. If it works, I can guarantee you 6 or 7 more people will all be doing the same thing. Or more. And then the same can and will be done towards other games. I don't really see it as a specific attack at one target, so much as a specific attack to make other targets more feasable. Not to jump to conclusions or anything, but I have a feeling this will affect the USSA a lot more than people will see in the short term. Hundreds of little things like this have shot the national psychology of the USSA back about 40 years now. More little things like this will only accelerate the decent.
On a side note, the canadian supreme court just told the music industry people that they don't want to hear anything else relating to the taxation of mp3 players anymore. It had been going on for some time, and I guess they felt that they have heard enough.
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Ceri JC
from Jefferson City (United States) on 2005-07-29 04:51 [#01678193]
Points: 23533 Status: Moderator | Followup to Taxidermist: #01678187 | Show recordbag
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"On a side note, the canadian supreme court just told the music industry people that they don't want to hear anything
else relating to the taxation of mp3 players anymore. It had
been going on for some time, and I guess they felt that they
have heard enough. "
Excellent! The legal equivalent of a "STFU!" :)
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axion
from planet rock (Sweden) on 2005-07-29 15:20 [#01678755]
Points: 3114 Status: Addict
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yeah i hate that zero mission to,when you have to shot down 5 guys with the plane.i am going to skip it.how Big is the game ?i have played it during a two months period or so and still havent completed it.i think i have cleared 40-50 % of the game.
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Aesthetics
from the IDM Kiosk on 2005-07-29 15:45 [#01678772]
Points: 6796 Status: Lurker | Followup to axion: #01678755
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Depends; If you only go for the main missions you need about 50 hours.
If you do all the side missions you need about 80-100 hours.
If you want to reach a 100% score you need a lot more than 100 hours...
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mylittlesister
from ...wherever (United Kingdom) on 2005-07-29 16:09 [#01678783]
Points: 8472 Status: Regular
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100% is gonna take me forever - i get easily distracted and just go on rampages!
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