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between commercial/pop and alternative music in your opinion? |
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A line that is regularly crossed. |
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Your personal attitude to music. |
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hmm, yes i suppose people perception of alternative and pop on this mb is very different to general perception.. but still, i'd say that commercial/pop music is the one that promotors try to push as far up the charts as possible and to be presented in the media constantly.. |
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That covers everything released by a pretty much all labels. There is no line. Everything is personal opinion. Kids see the likes of Busted as rebellious and alternative, most people see it as pop crap, why is one persons opinion any more valid than another...music is whatever it makes you feel. |
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Everything you can buy is commercial. |
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alternative music and comercial pop are 33% of the same sphere. i tend to think of music genres( if you want to cut music up like that ) in bubbles that overlap one another, its not really that precise, but they definetly overlap, i would say some bands that are on the boundaries of pop and alternative are: radiohead, sometimes pop sometimes alternative |
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It's just labels, really isn't it? I don't know, there's very subversive pop, there's very cynical, commerical rubbish touted as alternative. I appreciate the question, but, I think, you know there is no line between pop/indie/commercial. It is all product, that much is certain. |
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they are in no way mutually exclusive; pop is defined by the market and alternative is created indepenent of the market, but its still a part of it |
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well yes, but not propaganda - no one is encouraging me to buy the analord series (unless you work for rephlex), but if britney spears released a new album, there would be comercials for it on the internet and on television using propaganda to sell the music, also the music is a comercial for itself. |
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the final purpose of the album if you make music to be good music, it will probably be alternative if you make music to sell a lot then it ssurely comercial its very difficutl to tell |
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commercial music is music designed as an advertisement. the people involved with this type of music understand how to deliberately write and produce a song that will appeal to a lot of people within a chosen demographic. it's exactly like the 30 second ads you see on tv and the radio jingles. they come up with something that will get stuck in your head and, after many repeat listens, you will assume that you like it because you keep remembering it. commercial music doesn't need to have any substance or artistic weight because it is implicitly entertainment. the singers or bands that perform this type of music are only there so that the label can attach an image to the music. when they have a sexy young image behind the music, they have the complete package. it's sort of like the label is selling you 90% packaging and image and 10% music. 0% of that is actual art. artistic merit is often a liability to the entertainment industry unless they can spin it into something controversial that will sell. in this case, they will seek to co-opt and exploit the art and mutate it into their own commercial product (punk rock, hip hop, idm, etc - all genres that have fallen victim to exploitation). this process is inevitable and is conveniently efficient and profitable. as far as the masses are concerned, sum 41 and avril lavigne are legitimate punk rock music and are true rebels and have a lot of independent spirit. they've been told that that is what punk rock is many times by professionals, so it must be true. but the truth is that somebody at that label said, "we can sell this to teenagers, let's do it" the music industry / entertainment industry has been doing all of this since the first record was sold. it's nothing new. their goal is to make money, and the way they have found that works the best is to sell images (and to a lesser extent, formuliac music often written by a professional commercial songwriter). whether anyone chooses to listen to the commercial songs on mtv and radio is up |
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i think its more than that, pink floyd made great music, but it can be used as comercial pop, any music can be used as pop music. |
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to them. it's just preference. |
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well, im not sure i agree with you on that completly..sure there are different views on what's alternative and what's not, but there are plenty of labels who don't work on any promotion whatsoever, they release that music for a certain group of people and it works ok for them i suppose..you won't see any of those songs on pop charts ever..how come busted (i don't know them btw) and such bends get known to those kids? mostly because their promotors are forsing them in media.. |
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my understanding of what "pop" music is is that it is essentially a genre like electronica or rock n roll. it's different from calling something commercial, which is a term that exists outside the definitions of music genres. |
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when the pop movement first started this was the case, it might still be, i dont know, but try to think of something that is pop music but is not comercial? i cant really think of anything, thats why i believe pop music is comercial - pop music has become comercial music. |
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yes, pop is different to popular, sorry for that :) pop is a genre and popular is commercial in my books. |
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The promotors are the labels they are on. The labels will invest as much money into a product as they feel it will take to maximise their return. For example Windowlicker was quite heavily marketed by Warp at the time of its release, because they knew it had potential to attract a broader range of listeners than your typical Aphex release. Does this make Windowlicker any less alternative than anything else Richard has released. I would say not. |
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it depends |
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remember what pop stands for: popular. |
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it seems most of us kind of agree it's up to lables and media what is going to be forced into mass sales..that is quite obvious with the extremes but gets much harder to define towards the centre, where does commercial music starts? i huess that part is left to an individual to decide for himself/herself.. |
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actually, i think that pop/popular music started out as more blatantly commercial just like nashville-pop-country. i'm sure there are plenty of pop artists we've never heard of because they didn't seek out the commercial aspect of the music world. |
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So you agree with the first post I made in this topic. I AM SO WISDOMY |
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i would say windowlicker is his most commercial release, yes... i didn't get high on the charts for some reason though..i've read in several interviews how he deliberatly controlled come to daddy single not to get too high on charts, i bet they weren't cool with that on warp, but if he wanted im sure they could push that release or windowlicker much more. |
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haha you never fail :) |
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i am thinking of it in a more modern art way, for me pop music or the pop artistic movement in general started in the 60's with artists like warhol - its art that represents the culture, youth culture - its kind of like a mirror reflecting an image of itself on another mirror, the art imitates the people and then the people imitate the art, and the two feed off of one another - i think that this idea has been raped to the point where you will find pop culture has been pushed down everyones throat - hence it has been processed and mass produced. |
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Also this misconception that the big labels/media dictate what is being listened to is a little incorrect. No matter how much money you put behind someone like Snores for example, people still aren't going to like it or buy it en mass. The music industry has a whole if financially product/unit sales orientated. The listening populous as a whole are passive music listeners. |
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anything dog_belch like is good. the rest is not. this is all you need to know. |
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yes pop stands for popular, but to me pop kind of got genre on its own..not necessarily all pop is popular :) |
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but that's just because Venetian Snares is just about the only music that has been scientifically and objectively proven to be crap. |
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you haven't read r40f's big post have you? big labels usually have people eho sort of have an idea what could be attractive for the masses.. |
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I realised it was a bad example after I posted it. OK let's change it to someone talented like, let's say, Luke Vibert. |
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thats because funk doesnt try to make pop music, or he doesnt try to appeal to the mass audience, he does try to appeal to an audience, but not the mass one. but compromising his stuff, he could do it, but he chooses not to, but i still agree with what you are saying - you mean it doesnt matter what the artist does - if the labels and the media dictated the sales - they would try to popularize everything they could, even the shit, iyo snores. |
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imo, warhol was a visionary and his ideas about art and pop art were extremely important. i just don't believe for a second that the christina aguileras of the world are meant to be ironic. whether they realize it or not, they're an element of the system of business. like a billboard or spam e-mail, each commercial superstar is a cog of the industry. i do agree that pop culture is now, in and of itself, a product. |
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my opinion is the Best of All. |
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well, vibert would definitely be much more of an interest for masses than vsnares, but we know already that warp's promotion is shit, i don't know if it's intentional but im sure some of their music could become much more popular than it is. |
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mine is BEST OF ALL |
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no no |
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im sure they realize it, and they're enjoying every minute of it :) |
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should i reply with a yes yes? we could go on all day and fill up some threads :) i much rather talk about something more important like.... is leak 1 untilted? |
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yes. leak 1 is untilted. |
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It's pretty sad that you jump to the conclusion that artists who have gained mass appeal have somehow compromised their music in some way to get where they are. Like it or not, just as you like snores, there are a lot of people who love the "commercial/pop" that so many people here hate. Some of these people like making music that sounds like the music they love. I have a friend who makes pure cheesy house music (IMO) but he loves music as much as anyone I have ever met. |
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i can see where you're coming from, but i can't think of any artists that haven't compromised their music in exchange for commercial success. i can't think of even one example. who are you referring to? |
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i couldnt agree with you more, i was just using snares as an example, as in he would have to compromise what he is doing, but if you are an artist, and you love what you do, no matter what type of art or genre it falls in, thats great with me - if a pop artist or an artist who is making music that is regarded as 'safe' 'simple' is enjoying his art then that is the best possible thing, i totally agree with you, who am i to judge that persons artistic drive / merits. |
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hey, i like a lot of pop music, im not talking about music preferences here, merely about what's commercial and what's not..why is commercial music instantly related to shit music is beyond me. |
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im almost convinced that if some big label signed aaron they could puch him up the charts quite a bit.. |
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nirvana :D |
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Whether that was a dig or not it does further reinforce the notion I have, of late, been harbouring that I invented the whole world and that this all just some extended dream... I digress. I agree with Ecnad, that labels can't force people to buy something, no matter how much money they throw behind a single/singer. I think we generally get the pop we want and deserve, people buy music they like. Some pop's thrilling, some pop is thrilling because it's so blatent in it's commerciality, ... to some crusty classical afficianado all what we might think of as avant garde and cutting edge could be considered pop.... If you can open your ears to all music and find something to enjoy, or muse upon, or even reproach then consider yourself lucky. There's a lot of people, most people, who would dismiss 99% of music as being "weird" or whatever, and it's not their fault.. well it is a bit, basically they're deaf, and everyone here, I believe, is blessed with ears to listen with, so be thankful. |
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a couple of life long friends of mine all write and perform in these garage punk and metal bands, i cant stand punk and metal, but they put 100% of themselves into and it gets them really charged up when they record and play shows, how i feel about the music vs what they feel about the music, and the level at which they engage themselves in it are indepedent. |
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