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As much as the right wingers want to paint liberals into a kooky leftist corner, it's not happening any more. Michael Moore sat near Jimmy Carter at the DNC, was interviewed by Ted Koppel on Nightline, and even mad dog Bill O'Reilly wanted Moore on his show, which Moore agreed to on his own terms (no edits!) It's starting to look like the tables are turned in the states. The dems have popular support and driving passion, and the repugs are on the run. Woohoo! (If anyone has a link to the Moore / O'Reilly clip, I'd like to see it.) |
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who's Bill O'Reilly? *scratches head* |
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you should watch it it makes moore look stupid |
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Your typing makes you look stupid. |
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He's this angry guy who tells people to shut up in a childish tone of voice. ChildrenTalking: O'Reilly's entire career makes him look stupid. |
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Bill O'Reilly scares me. |
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yeah, Bill O'Reilly would definitely have to demonstrate some semblance of intelligence before he could make anyone look stupid... but don't worry children, you know the elephants have a curve ball up their sleeve... |
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Diebold? Terrorist attack? Theresa Heinz-Kerry ejaculatuion footage? |
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so long as I don't mention it, maybe they won't come here and steal me in the night.... |
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fleetmouse. i'm not being biased here. bill asked him do you feel the president lied to his country about WMD's. moore still believes this strongly. bill went on to tell him the 9/11 report cleared up that the CIA went with faulty intelligence. that the russian and english intel. told us there was wmd's and to make matters even worse. he told moore about one of bush's close naional defense spokesmen looked bush in the eye that this was 'a slam dunk' in regards to hussein having them. so the president went along with all this, so how in the hell does that make him a liar. none whatsover, so you end up with a person like moore with painstakingly dumb idealogy. if you dont believe me watch the interview for yourself. i watched it. it was very informative :) |
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true |
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the leader of an organisation (or nation) must take responsibility for its mistakes. Might not make him a liar, but might highlight his incompetence. |
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I don't think Bush lied about WMDs at all. He was one of those people who just assumed Saddam Hussein had WMD because that's the kind of thing he would have, having used them in the past and all. His intelligence people didn't seem to be telling him anything different. However, I do think he was lying when he gave WMD as a reason for going to war. I think WMD and the 'threat' posed by Iraq just provided him with convenient reasons that were coincidental to his real aims. Had Bush truly been motivated by the need to disarm Iraq he would have paused when the UN inspectors started to ring the alarms that Iraq might not have anything more offensive than machine guns after all. How Tony Blair got mixed up in all of this is far more perplexing. |
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It's pretty clear that the white house was extremely selective in what "evidence" they were willing to accept from the intelligence community. Colin Powell literally moved into the pentagon for rewrites until they got the script they wanted. And they were going with "evidence" from people like Chalabi who were known to the intelligence community to be untrustworthy. And when Joe Wilson pointed out that the emperor had no clothes, they outed his wife as a CIA agent - one whose job was to INVESTIGATE WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION - through Bob Novak, one of their media lickspittles. Condoleezza Rice herself - I think some other bushies, will have to look for sources - said that Saddam wasn't a threat and was contained up until it was convenient for them to tell a different story. |
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moore is getting real silly, with what's he doing. |
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I just watched the interview - Moore let O'Reilly corner him, and didn't mention how the white house was picking and choosing only the evidence that suited their scenario. At least now the right is admitting that there were no weapons of mass destruction. Jesus, I wish Moore had been better prepared. You have to go into one of these things with notes and documentary evidence or they'll plow you under. Like when Rumsfeld was on Face the Nation saying he'd never called Iraq an imminent threat, and someone confronted him with one of his own quotes on the matter. |
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no he isnt, he is actually quite original. |
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he might be original, but he's trying too hard. and it's silly how easy people can be manipulated. |
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How can he try to hard? He's trying to get Bush out of the White House, it does require a lot of effort. |
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i prefer moore to bush mind you, but it's just silly how people belive everything he says or shows...i bet lots of it is true, but he's not really being objective. |
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Why should he be objective though? |
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srekoohnam llat yllaer! |
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coz he seems to have a big influence on people. |
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i prefer Noam Chomsky but I credit anyone who is trying to get rid of Bush but really I don't see how the polls can say how close in popularity they are. Is the government brainwashing really that widespread? On BBC the other day there was a cowboy in a cart saying how he was going to vote for Bush. Then there was this stupid middle aged woman saying how Kerry doesn't have the personality to be president. WTF has that got to do with anything, and since when has acting stupid (Bush) been a good personality?? |
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who cares, when Bush is outy then he can be as objective as he likes. |
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i just can't believe how this woman was saying how her vote was being decided by 'personality', what about important issues like environment, foreign policy etc... all things Bush is fucking up at the moment |
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is his last movie any good? |
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i can believe it... look at Arnold Schwarzenger. |
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I don't see the logic there though. Are you saying that if you're well known you can't argue your own opinions? |
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sure you can...it just bothers me how people take for granted everything he tells them. |
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because when you use manipulative rhetoric, half-truths, and wild propaganda to make a point you end up with a very off base and misinformed population... ...even if your motives are good. |
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That's hardly his fault though. |
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You're answering a question I didn't ask. |
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well, all im saying is, if he was a better person he would probably be more objective...dunno. |
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you said 'why should he be objective'. if his goal is to increase the reactionary, jump-to-conclusion, hysterical nature of the media (that he condemned in BFC), then i guess he shouldn't be objective... if his goal was to inform the population about the evils of bush then i do believe he should've been more objective, because as it is the people he was trying to reach [the ones who may not've voted bush] discount what he says, and only the people who already had their minds made up that bush was evil listened to his message... but, they take as fact things that may've not been fact. I believe he is misleading those people, and doing more harm than good. |
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He is only misleading people if he is telling them things which aren't true. Where are the lies? |
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what i'm trying to say is that when he released this movie which is so strongly spun he didn't change anyone's mind. most people who were pro-bush before F9/11 will disregard every word he ever says whether there's truth in there or not. most people who were anti-bush before F9/11 will sop up what he has to say and be misinformed about the world they actually live in. |
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O'Reilly great guy eh? |
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i watched a democratic party meeting last night. i can't belive people can be that stupid...some of them were actually crying when clintons spoke to them...they were cheering, shouting... reminded me of those old hitler days. it's the same with republicans btw. we don't have that in europe...at least not to that extent. |
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not out and out lies, but he certainly stretches the truth. creative editing, selection of what to show and what keep out of the final cut, placing things out of context, etc... he may not be lying, but he's certainly as guilty of misleading the public as bush was when he said we have intelligence that iraq bought uranium from nigeria.... that wasn't a lie, but it definately was misleading. |
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No, we have a complete lack of passion, which is just as bad, if not worse. |
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interesting review of "outfoxed" on the beeb last week. That o'reilly guy is some peice of work alright. See him berating the pacifist son of a dead US soldier? Nasty cunt. |
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at least we don't look silly :) |
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i also like michael moore's message ten fold over dubya's... but, i think it's 75% entertainment 25% valid political comentary. |
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o'reilly is the bigest piece of shit spouting out pseudo-news on the airwaves today. |
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I think you might be dead on there, Shope. in fact, I'd vote for you. |
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Haha! Great video clip. I have to get my hands on Outfoxed. |
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"i also like michael moore's message ten fold over dubya's... but, i think it's 75% entertainment 25% valid political comentary. " i'd have to go with 5% valid political commentary (if even that) to 95% garbage |
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Why do you have such hatred for Michael Moore? Have you seen any of his films? TV shows? Read any of his books? 95% garbage? Well if that's the case, sue the bastard! "As far as I know, none of the facts in the movie have been refuted. That is, I think the evidence in the movie is accurate." Bill Clinton Aye, that's right. Your former president. Ohh of course, I forgot. He's a "loony lefty pinko commie maniac" too! I'll end this by officially declaring that you are a complete jasper. xoxox |
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