 |
|
You are not logged in! F.A.Q Log in Register |
 |
|
 |
 (nobody)...and 168 guests Last 5 registered Oplandisks nothingstar N_loop yipe foxtrotromeo Browse members... |
 |
Members 8025Messages 2614367 Today 13 Topics 127560 |
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
At least Michael Moore's "half truths" won't lead to almost 1000 US soldier casualties and possibly 11,000 or more Iraqi civillian deaths. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
moore is a nutjob. he made the point that we had no right to invade iraq, like the hundreds of thousdands of innocent people who died under saddam hussiens regime wasn't reason enough. that if in doing so we are running a course of abjective morality. he makes the point if you saw the interview that the people of iraq should've had risen against the regime, created a revolution. he failed to mention that anybody who opposed any facet of the gov't would get their limbs hacked off, decaptitated, raped, shot and the list goes on. moore slams his fist on the table that it is not our problem but the iraqi's. so bill who is a logical thinking person makes the point about WWII when Hitler was executing jews left and right for over a decade in germany. where they able to rise against that? so what does moore do after bill explains the comparisons, moore contradicts himself by saying that we should've gone to war with Nazi Germany the instant Japan attacked us but not before if well and knowing the discourse of what went on during WWI upto pre WWII. he is someone who doesn't care about anybody but his own socialist agenda. theres a reason why people like kerry and clinton can't even interact with moore for fear of being labeled unpatriotic. moore is 'so patriotic' that he doesn't even live in this country. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
*yawn* people have such a patchy overview of the last 100years history that it makes this kind of "discussion" pretty difficult to sustain. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
"The estimate of 300,000 Iraqis killed by the Ba'athists also includes deaths for which the western powers arguably bear some responsibility. According to the US state department, most of the graves discovered to date correspond to five major atrocities committed by the Saddam Hussein regime: the 1983 attack against Kurds of the Barzani tribe; the 1988 Anfal campaign against the Kurds, for which estimates of the numbers killed vary from 50,000 to 180,000; chemical attacks against Kurdish villages from 1986 to 1988; the 1991 massacre of Shia Muslims during their uprising at the end of the Gulf war; and the 1991 massacre of Kurds who fought for autonomy in northern Iraq after the Gulf war. Saddam's brutal attacks on the Kurds in the 1980s occurred as part of the Iran-Iraq war, during which the Reagan administration supported and armed his regime. When that war ended in 1988 Saddam sought to consolidate his rule at home; in the Anfal campaign he sent forces to quell the Kurdish uprising in the north (supported by the Iranians), again with US consent. The massacre of the Shias in 1991 took place after they were encouraged by the first Bush administration to rebel following the first Gulf war, and then abandoned to their fate." Oh yeah, since you mention Hitler's gassing of the Jews, wasn't that the same Hitler whose military machine was aided and abeted by Prescott Bush? That's right, G Duddya's grandaddy. Even AFTER the attack on Pearl Harbour!! and |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
During the Iran-Iraq war, the United States decided it was imperative that Iran be thwarted, so it could not overrun the important oil-producing states in the Persian Gulf. meaing they were taking control of iraq's oil so two wrongs dont make a right. that second link is a joke hitler needed to be stopped which for the fact of the matter has nothing to do with my previous post. my point is both dictators needed to be stopped. oh and another thing oh insightful one Five days after the cease fire Saddam Hussein sends his planes and helicopters to northern Iraq to begin massive chemical attacks against the Kurds. this is where we have the problem. not so much stoping iran from gaining control of oil. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
For O'Reilly to try and draw a meaningful comparison between Iraq and Germany seems pretty ridiculous. The situations were very, very different. Perhaps he just wanted a convenient example to try and support his case. Had he had time to think, Moore could presumably have re-countered with other examples, like the countries of the former Soviet bloc who overthrow oppressive regimes with comparative ease. The history of one country does not set a binding precedent on the history of another. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
Funny how there was seemingly no problem when it came to selling WMD technology to Iraq in the first place. Technology which was ultimately used against the Kurds. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
that Hitler/Saddam comparison really doesn't float. that's very, cheap rhetoric. if Hitler had decided to kill Germans in general, left and right, he might have had a point. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
but.. WMD don't kill people, people do.. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
"if Hitler had decided to kill Germans in general, left and right, he might have had a point" how do you justify the killling of over 60 million people? |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
Hitler hitler, hitler hitler hitler hitler hitler hitler hitler. Hitler hitler hitler hitler hitler! Hitler hitler, hitler? Hitler hitler hitler hitler hitler hitler hitler, hitler... Hitler hitler hitler hitler hitler hitler - hitler hitler hitler. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
ha ha talking about rhetoric.. that has absolutely nothing to do with this discussion.. I was simply saying the analogy doesn't even work, beside being a cheap trick. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
not that it makes it any better... but just for the record... it was 6 million. not 60 million. slight difference |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
|
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
this is only including the soldiers so you can imagine how many more other civilians died in europe |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
I thought you were refering to the concentration camps. thats 6 million. your link adds up to 14,952,592 which is still not 60 million. add 6 million for the concentration camps, thats roughly 21 million. so you're telling me 39 million civilian casualties? Id like to see that info. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
how quaint. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
i never specified that it was concentration camp casualties i'm speaking about both civilian and soldiers from across the world this one link says 50 million anyways my point is there was alot of deaths which were in no way shape or form a laughing matter like some people in this board see it |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
that site is very vague I'd like to see a more complete tally. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
anyways... I read your original post wrong. I'm not going to argue with you over the total #... I'm just curious now, because looking on several different sites, I get #'s from 40 million- 60 million... thats a pretty big spread :-s |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
ChildrenTalking do you believe in "fighting evil with evil" for example? |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
I don't think it's at all a laughing matter that Hitler has become the central figure in ethics. I think that's sad, and I think it trivializes a great evil to drag him into everything from middle eastern politics to republican versus democrat mudslinging. Is it possible to have a moral or political discussion that steers clear of hitler hitler hitler? |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
i'm glad someone decides not to argue with me and just discuss something in a civilized manner. i dont mind arguing sometimes but if its constant everyone just starts throwing bombs at each other and nobody is listening to what the other person has to say. and yea its a big spread, unfortunately... |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
hobbes:ChildrenTalking do you believe in "fighting evil with evil" for example? ----------------------------------------------------------- -------- i believe that if you're stripped away from your rights you must fight for your freedom. everyone knows freedom is automatically taken away from you in a totalitarian gov't-- physical action must be taken because its the only way to take down such an evil empire. if you are a islamic fundamentalist or a icarian christian or whatever, thats all good and fine but you find ways to not have your religion or personal beliefs affect the rights of others. i think the moment you strip the rights of a person, mainly the freedom we take for granted that is a travesty of the worse kind and that is not tolerated by me. i'm a jew and i dont impose my faith onto others, and i'd expect the same from others as it should be. we should all live equally and share the prosperities that my country has to offer or any others who believe in the price of freedom. theres a great saying i found in a website a couple months back in a site called www.staticcopy.com it made a huge impact on me and made me see things in a different light. made me see the underlying meaning as to having freedom is it goes something like this: Everyone Enjoys Equality Equally All Pain is Temporary All Suffering is Subjective All Examples are Relative. There is no Majority There is no Minority Smile Wide while Performing your Duties. it may sound a bit corny but i feel thats what we all deserve as human beings in this planet. regardless if your right wing, liberal or ind. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
hey check this... |
||||||||
| Attached picture | |||||||||
|
|||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
speaking of nazis... lets do a little comparison with USA: (taken from a website) *lack of real political opposition (weak Weimar government--weak Democratic Party) *consolidation of massive amounts of power without a clear mandate from the people (1932 election - 2000 election) *usurpation of leftist terminology to further a RW agenda (national socialism - compassionate conservatism) *the use of propaganda (Goebbels - Rove, O'Reilly, Limbaugh, FoxNews, CNN) *an appeasing British Prime Minister (Chamberlain - Blair) *contempt for the international community (Hitler ignores the Treaty of Versailles - Bush ignores the ABM treaty and U.N. treaties on global warming, the international criminal court, landmines, chemical and biological weapons) *hatred directed at leftists and other groups in opposition to the government (communists - war protesters) *hatred directed at minority groups (Jews - Arabs) *weapons of mass destruction cited as a reason to invade other countries (Hitler claims that Poland could use poison gas against Germany - Bush claims Saddam Hussein could use poison gas against the U.S.) *a terrorist attack on the country as the final catalyst for fascism (Reichstag fire - 9/11 attacks) *the merging of big business with government (Krupps - Halliburton) *extreme nationalism (Nazi flags everywhere - American flags everywhere) *a culture that emphasizes the physical over the intellectual (Aryan *supermen* - American redneckism) *leader worship (Hitler as Der Fuhrer - Bush as God's child) *the creation of an internal security department (Gestapo - Department of Homeland Security) *massive build-up of military and police forces (paramilitary SS dressed in black - paramilitary cops dressed in black) *the use *lightning* warfare (blitzkrieg - shock and awe) *easy military victories setting the stage for other conquests (Sudentenland - Poland and France, Iraq and Afghanistan |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
you'd better be careful zeus. they might lock you up for voicing those opinions. after all.. freedom of speech is just an urban myth. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
was the reichstag publicised as the act of communists/socialists, but was actually carried out by the Nazi's? |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
who's laughing..? like I said before, it's a very cheap trick to use Hitler and WWII in a discussion like this, simply because people get too emotional. it muddles the discussion. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
the world's changed a lot since the 30s and 40s as well... |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
plus it was a completely different situation. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
yesterday I saw his las film and i liked it I know its not imparcial, but still I liked it a lot |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
i think he's a really good film maker. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
|
Messageboard index
|
|||||||||
