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I read that in the afterlife, it's just like this life, with all its petty trivialities. What do you think the afterlife is like? When you suddenly realise that you can't breathe, and disappear from this life in a cloud of panic, what do you think happens afterwards? |
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if it's not any better than this, i don't think i want there to be one. |
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I don't beleive there is an afterlife. This is your lot so make the most of it. |
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Perhaps you'll re-evaluate when you're lying there, gasping for breath, feeling your lifeforce ebbing away, as your personality begins going haywire attempting to deal with its impending termination. |
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Personally I welcome death. Like a long lost friend who will arrive to take me home from this meaningless existance back into a state of non-being. |
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i hate life yet i can't live without it. *baboom kshshshsh* |
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Hmm there is something there, although it is futile IMO to try and imagine what it is. Yumm philosophy! |
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that wasn't in the least bit funny or clever or anything, i'm sorry |
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*feins applause* |
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I don't think you'd be conscious of the fact that your lifeforce is ebbing away. |
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Of course you would be, there is no reason why you wouldn't be. Face it, one day you'll probably be lying there, knowing you're about to die, and hastily trying to come to terms with it. If you're lucky, I guess you'll die very suddenly, before having time to come to terms with it. Remember, have your head severed after death, it's very humane. |
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What happens really depends on how you define "yourself".. regardless if you believe in god/a higher power or not, the energy that makes you an animate form and not just a pile of flesh and goo, will "live on" in some form or another.. but i don't know if that charge just gets flushed away somewhere into the earth and/or scatters, or if it would be utilised in the conception of a newborn life, a plant/beast/human or some other kind of force we don't really understand. but, my point is, the energy or force who/that created you, all that you are and can perceive, will salvage and most definitely, in one way or another, reuse that energery given. but just because the energy of life leaves your body and moves on into some other form, doesn't mean that "you" (in the sense that most of us equate with the word) live on.. unless there is a being that guides, or at least had created or moulded the shape of existence, the "you" or at least what is perceived by you, (experience, personality, individuality) cannot continue along with the energy that leaves after death. God would need to intervene to salvage/archive the contents of your mind/brain cells for later retrieval.. it really is the "incentive" for most religions.. that the "you", in the sense that you already recognize, will live on, if you live life in the "appropriate" way. I am not sure exactly what happens, but the whole idea of existing at all is pretty damned farfetched.. many of us wouldn't be too surprised if there was a network of order hiding behind the chaos of everyday life, it gives a comforting and inimitable sense of structure and comprehensibility to existence, and in a way, that's really the whole point. but only some of us are willing to trade the (un)certainty in firm logic for blind faith and trust in unfounded idea(L)s. |
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have you read "the occult" by colin wilson - I think you'd enjoy it. |
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nothing |
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nope. i might keep an eye out for it, though. |
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Why concern oneself with the beyond/immanent future, when one finds oneself in a "now" and present? As soon as we concern ourselves with questions of "what is?", error is indispensable: insofar as that is, I think the eternal return of the same is a wonderful thought . . . "This life as you now live it and have lived it, you will have to live once more and innumerable times more; and there will be nothing new in it, but every pain and every joy and every thought and sight and everything unutterably small or great in your life will have to return to you, all in the same succession and sequence - even this spider and this moonlight between the trees, and even this moment and I myself. The eternal hourglass of existence is turned upside down again and again, and you with it, speck of dust!" - from The Gay Science, Nietzsche |
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I dont think there is an afterlife. and if there is then why worry about it. thats stupid. |
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life after death is an oxymoron i'm pretty sure you die you're soul goes on but 'you' cease to exist and as far as petty trivialities go, i'd have to say that discussions about the afterlife have to be the lowest sort |
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"...if there is then why worry about it. thats stupid." ..because most people who do believe there is an afterlife, also believe that their actions in this life determine what will happen to them.. if there is an afterlife, the possibility that it would, in some way, relate or interact with this life is obvious.. that's pretty much the whole reason for there to be an afterlife.. it would mean this life has some kind of a purpose.. if there is an afterlife, that was created/made possible some kind of higher being, then you need to worry about it.. otherwise why would we even be here in the first place? how could this life be just a gateway to another, more rewarding life, if this one is completely meaningless, trivial and your actions/intentions mean nothing? |
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how is discussing the mysteries life/death trivial or petty? i mean, no one knows for sure what happens after we die.. and not everyone is going to share your views, and it could lead to some heated debate/bickering.. but even then.. it's a good thing, i'd say.. it causes both sides to at least consider a different way of thinking.. i could see someone being annoyed if some religious twit is barking what appears to be nonsense and orders, but at least, in their eyes, they are doing you a huge favour. they think your soul is at stake, and are trying to "save" you.. even if you don't want or need to be.. but general "objective" spiritual discussion, i don't see how it could be any more useless than any other explanation or discussion that humans could muster. i mean, is something only worth discussing if there's provable answers to everything one could ask about it? it seems to me, the only things still worth discussing are those topics which currently have no solid answers.. |
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I don't think I have a belief when it comes to afterlife, and the act of living after life. I'd like to believe, but like most things, I don't know WHAT to believe. Yet, I worry about it. I'm a fairly devout Christian, church every Sunday and a cross in my room, and I don't even know if I believe in God. Plus, I jerk off a lot. |
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i mean, is something only worth discussing if there's provable answers to everything one could ask about it? it seems to me, the only things still worth discussing are those topics which currently have no solid answers.. Sure .. there's no proof of proof. If, then we find ourselves dealing with unprovable answers - then does it still make sense to base the merit of these answer's on proof - on what actually "is the case"? or even just "could" be the case? because surely there are an infinite alternative possibilities? an infinite amount of superstitions! What is stopping us from creating new superstitions - one's that at least suit us - and benefit our here and now? |
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*benefit my here and now* |
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i think our souls/lifeforce/conciousness - whatever you want to call it - entropy's and returns to the pool of energy that everything comes from. like our body's decay and become nutrients for plants and bacteria, the same happens to our souls. all sense of self is lost and the energy and thoughtwaves spread back into the pool of life. i don't really seperate the energy that makes up our souls from the energy that makes up our skin... or the energy that makes up dirt for that matter. they're just molded into different forms this time around. so, i guess i don't really believe in an 'afterlife'. |
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"so, i guess i don't really believe in an 'afterlife'." but i also don't believe that our lifeforce is lost. it's recycled. |
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you're going to hell. |
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seriously i don't think jesus cares what you do with the captain- but keeping the major symbol of his decidedly gruesome death over your bed? that'd piss me off a lot if i were jesus |
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well i am not saying you need to conform to a specific religion/dogma in order to benefit from spirituality or the questioning/discussion of who we are, and why we're here, where we're going, etc.. like you say, religion is basically a way to explain the unexplainable, suited to meet the needs of that culture. you can choose to believe that since each claims to be the truth, none of them can be true, and because some religions say every other religion is wrong that they are all completely wrong about everything. if one of them says that it is the only true religion i won't completely discount all other religions because i find them to each be, for the most part, different expressions of the same basic ideals, suited for different cultures. to those different cultures, the difference in the way the ideas are presented and practised can seem like black and white, even if the basic principals are the same. but that doesn't mean that someone of a certain religion or culture can't learn from a person of another religion/culture, or discuss religion in a sensitive way.. it doesn't necessarily have to end in bickering.. if done right the two individuals can learn something new and appreciate or understand the world in a new way. on the other side of it, two people who don't necessarily believe anything at least when it comes to religion can still discuss things of a spiritual nature and gain something from doing so. no two people view/express their spirituality the same way, so virtually everyone is someone you could learn something from. the fact that all of what they believe is completely improvable really doesn't matter. i mean.. should we all not just discuss any scientific theory or anything that is in any way speculative because it is speculative? most everything worth knowing, understanding or believing in had to have been proof-less sci-fi-esque crackpot-fodder at one point.. |
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(cont) the whole problem with religion is, there is no proof.. but like any other form of study/learning it usaully has to start with speculation before analysis. |
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i am most intrigued by ideals of reincarnation |
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as long as its better than this shit .. who cares |
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im strongly of the opinion that we should learn how to deal with this world rather than aspiring for something intangible. |
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d4nt3 the h4x0r wrote some long txt on this, da d1v1n3 c0m3dy. available at a bbs near you. also LaZaRUS_31337@aol.com. |
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I think its worth drawing a distinction between metaphysical and physical speculation. To use the terminology employed by Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld: it's a difference between "unknown knowables" and "unknown unknowables" - to my mind there is no point in worrying about the latter. (Rumsfeld distinguished between known unknowables and unknown unknowables) it is the only true religion i won't completely discount all other religions because i find them to each be, for the most part, different expressions of the same basic ideals, suited for different cultures. Whilst there may be a lot of similarities in the "same basic ideals" some religions express - i don't think this adds to their worth. E.g. if it so happens that a lot of religions use different customs/language/myths to talk about unknown unknowables - i.e. the "same" thing. If this is your definition of "religion" then I'm quite happily a-religious, simply because the metaphysical matter is by definition, by nature, unprovable/unfalsifiable ... but more - not of "this" world, "here and now". I think the doctrine of eternal recurrence is profoundly different in nature to the traditional "afterlife" - as it re-directs and puts the focus always in the "here and now", in the little details. It does not involve any "day-dreaming" of an afterlife ... what is more, if one were granted such an afterlife, one wouldn't even know how to "live it"! Because one had always been concerned with the always futural beyond - the most likely way one would then spend time in "heaven" would be hoping one doesn't lose it! How can someone be convinced Heaven is eternal, if one can't convince oneself existence is, in some sense at least, eternal? |
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bring out the "laser". |
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There's certainly nothing wrong with meditating upon the Afterlife. If we can prove to ourselves that it exists somehow, it may alter radically the way we live our lives, and our outlook on life. There are intriguing cases which merit researching, and mulling over. Whilst it may not make one a believer in the Afterlife, it could be construed as proof for Jung's theory of group consciousness, the collective, shared race memories and all that kind of thingummybob. |
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Nah. |
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there is no afterlife, this is a fact, if you do happen to have common sense. the state of non-being is too brilliant to comprehend for most. its nothing to fear and everything to fear at the same time. either way, before we were born we didnt exist, and after we die we cease to exist, but we do enter that non existence a different way then when we came out of it and into our lives. its all about your attitude, fears, guilt, love, and all that stuff that will truely take you into what you feel most during your last minutes. |
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afterlife and aphex logo hmmm....... |
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this is what it's like. then you hit reset and start over, 'cept you're wearing a bikini the second time around if you finish in under 50 years. |
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What nonsense, Gwely - you obviously haven't researched the subject deeply at all, and are spouting hackneyed garbage! |
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its something people constantly think about yet its somewhat of a futile question. that idea in itself interests me. |
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any ideas about the afterlife are purely guesses. that's why spending a lot of time meditating can be bad and even dangerous. because it can lead to the conclusion that you are learning about something that can't be learnt about. ... fueling statments like this. |
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"spending a lot of time meditating" should've been spending a lot of time meditating about it [the afterlife]. |
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meditation is about having an open mind and letting whatever thoughts come into your mind. but coming to a conclusion about anything has positive and negative consequences. |
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The afterlife feels like it was before you were concieved. That's my definition I've settled upon after refining it over the years. |
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Well I was always skeptical concerning the afterlife, but I've read some very interesting, and verified, accounts, and I'm wondering why there isn't more "serious" research into the subject. |
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verified how? got a link? i'm pretty interested. |
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that is pretty shallow. We don't even know what 90% of the Universe is made of, and we don't really understand reality itself yet, or what anything is actually made of - The closest we have to a Unified Theory is M-Theory, and the ideas you're dealing with at that level of physics leave a lot of possibilities open. It's often noted how much modern physics is starting to resemble the philosophy behind Hinduism, Taoism and Buddhism. Also, science and philosophy really are no closer to understanding what self-realisation actually is - Sure you can imagine a lump of bio-mass with an intelligence and consiousness - But to actually explain what it is on the other end of the line, actually experiencing these things, is just an impossible question to answer with conventional science. You really do need some medium between middle dimension physics, quantum physics and philosophy, to get any kind of balanced perspective. Personally, I think the only way to find any real answers is to attain enlightenment the traditional way - I don't think any amount of rationalising will ever get you nearer any kind of useful understanding. I think individuality is the only thing you lose at death - I think that's the only illusion - I do believe it's created by the brain purely for the survival of the physical body - Which I see as a propagator of souls. I also see God as a collective consiousness that we are all a part of, which I think is fundamental to the universe. And Christianity and things don't really go against that - They say god is everywhere and lives in all of us - It does suggest a collective consiousness. I see life as a constant battle between the bodys' animal urges and your spirit/connection-to-god. If you look at nature you see these kinds of collective consiousnesses everywhere - From termites nests to the human body. |
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There was a near death experience a few years back, fully recorded an verified at the time, that made a big splash, because it was during brain surgery when the brain was completely inactive for about 20 minutes. There were no brain waves whatsoever from the patient, but she had a full near death experience, including remembering almost every detail from the surgery. Then there were some interesting ideas that consiousness might exist at the quantum level, in microneurons - So at death this quantum information could realistically leave the body - And apparently there is some reason why they all stay grouped together - Can't remember much more of it than that. |
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