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 (nobody)...and 86 guests Last 5 registered Oplandisks nothingstar N_loop yipe foxtrotromeo Browse members... |
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Funny thing the day before this video came out, I mentioned to someone that the US needs to show some atrocities committed by the Iraqis on Americans and then keeping showing these over and over again. I was pretty sure there was enough anger amongst the Iraqs that something would happen, but if it didn't I suggested it would be staged anyhow. The objective would be to confuse the sequence of events in people's minds so that after several weeks the desired effect would be achieved. [If you don't believe me, try from memory to remember the sequence of events after 9/11, the 'Anthrax attacks', invasion of Afghanistan & introduction of the USA Patriot Act]. Thus the confusion would be as to what came first -the 'new' atrocities or the prison torture. By replaying one or two scenes endlessly, the corporate media could plant the idea that many many American soldiers were being brutally killed, if fact just as many or more as they were torturing and thus at that point, we would then have elements from the right-wing voicing their opinion in the press that the torture was justifed and deserved. Well I didn't have to wait long. Next thing this gruesome video appears and so I looked at it. It's pretty disgusting, but what struck me immediately was that there was very little blood. I would have expected the place to be splattered and it struck me as being rather odd. Not only that, already right-wing commentators have publicly stated that the Iraqis deserve what they get. continue.... |
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For an example of statements from such apologists, see: ... at a Senate Armed Services Committee hearing, Republican Senator James Inhofe was on the counterattack: "As I watch this outrage -- this outrage everyone seems to have about the treatment of these prisoners -- I have to say ... I'm probably not the only one up at this table that is more outraged by the outrage than we are by the treatment. ... I'm also outraged by the press and the politicians and the political agendas that are being served by this. ... I am also outraged that we have so many humanitarian do-gooders right now crawling all over these prisons looking for human rights violations while our troops, our heroes, are fighting and dying." From: http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0512-05.htm And so today, I see the headline: Berg Decapitation Video Declared A Fraud By Doctor ... who basically raises the same points about the blood. And another report: "CIA did it to take the heat off the Pentagon"--NBC reporter http://disc.server.com/discussion.cgi?disc=149495;article=5 (from 4893;title=APFN) Here's the text of the first report (from related URL) Nick Berg decapitation video declared "a fraud" by medical doctor The first casualty of war is the truth and this one has been no exception. La Voz de Aztlan obtained a copy of the video showing the beheading of American Nick Berg of Philadelphia and immediately something very odd was readily apparent. Not only were the purported screams of Nick Berg not in synchrony with the decapitation but their was also a total lack of blood spurting out as his jugular and other veins and arteries were being cut. continue... |
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We forwarded the video to Doctor Raul Castro Guevara, a surgeon and forensic expert in Mexico City for his expert opinion. He wrote back and commented, "No hay manera que el individuo en el video estaba vivo y su corazon funcionando cuando le estaban cortando la cabeza. En estos casos, el corazon impela sangre con gran presion, y se corta las arterias del cuello, hay una gran cantidad de sangre que salpica por todos lados. En mi opinion el video es un fraude." Doctor Raul Castro Guevara is saying that there is no way that the individual in the video was alive and his heart pumping while his neck was being cut. The doctor adds that in these cases, while the heart is pumping, cutting a person's artery in the neck, would cause copious amounts of blood to spurt all over the immediate environment. He says that in his opinion the video is a fraud. If you are able to view the video, please pay close attention to the five so called Al queda terrorists making the political statement. Look at their height, weight, skin color and their mannerisms. Do you think these people are Arabs or Iraqis? http://www.aztlan.net/fake_video.htm More doubters of the beheading video. Berg on right-wing Enemy list by Terry Friday, May 14 2004, 12:22am Found more links which indicate many people find the whole timing suspicious and who also noticed many odd features about the video. See: Bloggers doubt Berg execution video http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/4FFA61A3-9C33-4597-A 8D9-8079E91F2784.htm See also: Berg's Father and Firm Were On A Right-Wing 'Enemies' List http://www.breakfornews.com/NickBergEnemiesList.htm Summary: The family firm of beheaded American Nick Berg, was named by a conservative website in a list of 'enemies' of the Iraq occupation. That could explain his arrest by Iraqi police --a detention which fatally delayed his planned return from Iraq and may have led directly to his death. -------------------------- This is more and more looking like another crude fake video. < |
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can you count to 40? |
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We forwarded the video to Doctor Raul Castro Guevara, a surgeon and forensic expert in Mexico City for his expert opinion. He wrote back and commented, "No hay manera que el individuo en el video estaba vivo y su corazon funcionando cuando le estaban cortando la cabeza. En estos casos, el corazon impela sangre con gran presion, y se corta las arterias del cuello, hay una gran cantidad de sangre que salpica por todos lados. En mi opinion el video es un fraude." Doctor Raul Castro Guevara is saying that there is no way that the individual in the video was alive and his heart pumping while his neck was being cut. The doctor adds that in these cases, while the heart is pumping, cutting a person's artery in the neck, would cause copious amounts of blood to spurt all over the immediate environment. He says that in his opinion the video is a fraud. If you are able to view the video, please pay close attention to the five so called Al queda terrorists making the political statement. Look at their height, weight, skin color and their mannerisms. Do you think these people are Arabs or Iraqis? http://www.aztlan.net/fake_video.htm More doubters of the beheading video. Berg on right-wing Enemy list by Terry Friday, May 14 2004, 12:22am Found more links which indicate many people find the whole timing suspicious and who also noticed many odd features about the video. See: Bloggers doubt Berg execution video http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/4FFA61A3-9C33-4597-A 8D9-8079E91F2784.htm See also: Berg's Father and Firm Were On A Right-Wing 'Enemies' List http://www.breakfornews.com/NickBergEnemiesList.htm Summary: The family firm of beheaded American Nick Berg, was named by a conservative website in a list of 'enemies' of the Iraq occupation. That could explain his arrest by Iraqi police --a detention which fatally delayed his planned return from Iraq and may have led directly to his death. -------------------------- This is more and more looking like another crude fake video. |
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what's you point? |
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oh sorry for the double post |
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interesting |
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you could've posted this in the other thread. |
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i can never found anything in this board:P |
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if it is a fake why doesnt the entire towel-wearing community complain - or at least the alqaida chiefs? |
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well, since they found his body i think it's genuine |
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entire towel-wearing community i really don't know what to say about this statement i didn't know racism was taken so lightly in this board |
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"very little blood" ... some people took kill bill too seriously |
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sorry godel but the blood should come out very fast and in big quantities cos is pumped straight from the heart |
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some people will go as far out of their way as possible to doubt the word of anyone siding with america. they'll go equally far out of their way to take as fact anything that anyone opposing america says. i wouldn't be completely taken by surprise if this was faked, but i pretty strongly doubt it. in the higher-res version you could see a lot of blood. i'd say if america wanted to stage something, surely they would've placed some WMD. i think that would've been far more effective. but, i guess it doesn't really matter because 75% of the world would think it was staged even if they were legitimately found. |
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sorry jedy, but if the heart doesnt work anymore there's no fountain anymore either |
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and as epohs said, there actually was a lot of blood visible in the hi-res version. |
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so that means that he was killed before this cut his throat do you have a link to the hi-re version? |
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true but the heart would still be working. they severed the arteries before they got to the nerves which carry the messages from the basal stem in the brain to the heart and keep it beating. I think it's plausible that it could have been faked, but let's not forget it could have been faked by the Iraqis as well. Maybe he just died wherever they were holding him and they thought, well, let's pretend we executed him in this brutal manner, to have maximum impact. >if it is a fake why doesnt the entire towel-wearing >community complain - or at least the alqaida chiefs? KAroen - towel-wearing community? - get the fuck off this thread As if the kind of extremists that would commit such an execution are in any way part of the broader Muslim community. They may not even be connected to Al Qaeda for all we know. |
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I think if it was faked by the CIA then surely they would have done it more convincing with lots of blood squirting out of the neck... |
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the highres version i saw was on homelandsecurityus.com , but they've taken it down because their servers melted. |
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well, i thought the version perry posted was hi-res enough. no spraying blood or anything, but there was quite enough on the floor. i've seen the video only once and can remember thinking the same (where's all the blood?) until i saw the amount of blood on the floor increasing quickly. vletr, you got some good points (perhaps already being made in the other thread which i havent seen). are you a med-student? |
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no, psych/neuro i'll be a grad entry med student from september tho! |
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did the blood squirted? cos it should i have a friend that cutted his vein on the wrist by accident and his blood was squirting link in a movie so if you actually cut the Carotid artery |
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HAHAHA |
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dunno should/could it be visible from the direction it was shot? |
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yes it should Jarworski what's so funny |
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yeah it should have. Personally I think it unlikely the CIA would have faked it, cos they would have done a better job making it look real. They've instigated enough bloodshed for real to know what it looks like. If it is a fake, I think it was probably done by his captors. |
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i'm not saying the body is a dummy i'm saying he was dead before and then why should they fake the decapitation of an innocent guy? that doesn't benefit the iraquis at all |
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Well actions like this are never gonna benefit the iraqis, but it's not like all the 30 million people in Iraq had a big meeting and decided this was what should be done. We're talking extremist fringe elements here (as I'm sure you appreciate, even if JAroen doesn't). Well they'd already kidnapped him. Maybe they intended to make an execution video but then he just died, from exhaustion or torture wounds or something, and they had to improvise, lest they lose face amongst their extremist peers. |
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i really don't understand or get the point of a faked video done by the iraqis if is real i could still believe that was them i'm sure they have other people in their prisions so why get stuck witha dead body ? |
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They don't have prisons, they're outlaw renegades! The comparison with the American torture victims is entirely fallacious, because the American torture was perpetrated as part of a systemised and supposedly accountable organisation, i.e. the US Army. The people who supposedly performed the execution kidnapped an American contractor. I'm sure those foreign contractors are pretty damn jumpy at the moment, things being as they are, so I doubt they're much in abundance. An american captive is quite a prize. They tried to exchange the captive with some prisoners in the American jail at the heart of the torture scandal and the Americans declined. Why would the CIA add that to the video? Just makes it harsher on the family. I reckon something blatantly went wrong, he died in captivity or one of the kidnappers went crazy when the others weren't there and shot him without taping it or something. |
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i don't know the only thing is that all this shit is reinforcing my hate to the american goverment |
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Don't think my opinion of the american gov't could really get much lower to be honest, short of Bush and his cabinet all flying to Iraq and riding around Baghdad on horses, wearing cowboy gear and sheriffs hats, shootin' up some Iiiiiraqis. |
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they -bush&co- should actually do that. it would allow the iraqi people to deal with their own foe...and everyone else's foe |
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lord knows he's had enough practice on his ranch in Texas. 200 days worth in 2003, apparently. |
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i don't have time to read this shit i've got a business to run |
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LOL how's the weather today in foreskin>appendix? |
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MOIST |
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Hmm this is an interesting thread... I like conspiracy theories. But my instinct would say that it is unfortunately genuine. I can't remember exactly - I deleted the vid after 1 viewing - but I thought the camera didn't cut at all from when he was alive and moving to when his head was held up? Hmm. I also noticed the lack of blood... it wasn't exactly kill bill stuff. But I fail to see how this could have been faked otherwise. |
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there was a lake of blood on the floor, it appears only black in the low res version |
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i don't think it was fake. i just think he was scared shitless and probably sitting still to try and not upset his captors. he squirms around quite a bit once they grab him, but he is handcuffed and being held by two men and a belt around his neck. you could see his body go limp when they cut sufficiently through his neck. |
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I hear they faked the twin towers collapsing, too. Sub contracted out from hollywood. Boy, those guys will do anything to get oil! |
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Why is it hard to believe that it could be a reaction to the treatment of the Iraqi prisoners? That's some cause and effect. |
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They found his headless body anyways, this argument is stupid. |
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I didnt think it was faked until the CIA comes out and says the maked Guy was Mossoui from Alqueada (think I could spell it as often as its been in the papers). I suppose they could just be using the event to their own advantage, but if it is indeed true, its the first evidence of Alqueada having anything to do with Iraq. |
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Mossoui is not affiliated with the 'queada. |
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therre is not a lack of blood in 'rreal life' when a perrson has theirr head cut off, therre is a ton of blood. |
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Anyone who watches samurai movies will tell you that. Slash! *dramatic pause and pose* ..... SPLURRRRRRRRT! |
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