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In the past, some of you may have noted my tendencies toward armed revolution and uprising. However, I have mulled this over, and come to the conclusion that this is indeed not the way forward. So, I publicy renounce violence as a means, however tempting it may be. |
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Marlowe, I suggest you track down a copy of the Sci-Fi short story "And then there were none" by Eric Frank Russell (it appears in various compilations, I have a copy of it in an anthology called "stories for tommorow"). I think you'd really enjoy/be inspired by it. |
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Violence cannot solve ideological conflict. |
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Thanks, Ceri - I'll google the title, see if I can't find the text of it online. |
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It's quite an old one (from the 50s/60s I think) so you might be lucky. |
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I swear I've read that anthology - the name very much rings a bell... Anyway, I've the HTML saved, so I'll read it at leisure tomorrow or something. |
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yes violence can only place one value over the other... what's left for us pacifists to do is talk up left and right until they fuck... we could be here a while.... |
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Violence is not only armed uprising or pacification. Violence as in conflict is everywhere. I think we should consider that one thing will lead to the other. |
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when you say conflict do you mean conflict which involves forceful means or do you mean conflict in general... because i would think that would be renouncing a part of life that is somewhat integral to experience... |
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I am just saying that renouncing armed-physical conflict doesn't change anything. Suffering and prosperity etc are all results of conflict one way or the other. Even if noone gets killed there will be a losing side one way or the other. Maybe there even is no way to prevent violence as in armed conflict, but I'm not really sure. |
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I think some of the West has deeply entrenched "values" based on Violence being the Only Solution.... see the birth of the USA, see the Film output of the USA, and the USA's main genre of film, the Western, which helped build up the myth that "Blood-letting equals Ownership" etc. I also abhor the way the film industry there tends to portray foreigners strictly in terms of stereotypes, and thus dehumanises the rest of the World, particularly the Arab World, and the new (or not so new?) trend of attacking the Brits and the other Europe states. One more thing is how their Film Industry has a tendency to rewrite History through their films -- Braveheart, U571 (which is set a year later, and involves ONLY US army! In fact, it happened in 1941, the year BEFORE the USA became involved in WWII, and it was the British Army - that kind of disgusting rewriting of History is... nauseating), Pocahontas, The Patriot). These films, and others, helped to reinforce the lie that the USA is the saviour of the World, that the USA is the ONLY model of governance and living, and further helps the USA isolate itself and its citizenry from the rest of the world. Very distressing. |
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can't really argue with any of that |
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Well I have seen many mainstream british and french films that present americans as stereotypes. I guess people all over the world have that tendency. Maybe it is more apparent in american films because there are more of them and they get more promotion. Oh and about the arab world the western world decided that it is more convenient to assimilate the muslim element. Therefore you can see arabs portrayed in mainstream american shows such as seventh heaven as harmless normal people. |
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You forgot Independence Day. |
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Virtually everything in mainstream film / television reinforces the idea that either consumerism or violent masculinity defines our worth. I sometimes wonder whether the root of neo-liberal politics and imperialist conquest actually stem from a "pioneer times" mentality, i.e. survival of the fittest, those that can trample the rest. Armed uprising (certainly from within) against a mentality that will always reinforce their own concept of "strength" through the media is an impossible battle to win. |
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Nice location. |
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Nice eyes. |
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When these "Them" have been accepted, it is usually after "them" have been assimilated, yes. Btw, what nationality is the moslem(s) in 7th Heaven (I don't know, so I'm not being argumentative - just curious). Which means, neutralised. Even The West Wing, in its special after 9/11, contradicted itself, and basically gave the message that Terrorism started with Islam, and at their heart, all moslems are terrorists ... and that's from a Liberal, acclaimed show. See how gays were neutralised in such shows as Will & Grace? See how blacks were neutralised in such shows as The Cosby Show (acceptable after following the WASP American Dream). Assimilation is one of the great American Evils. Even after colonialism, the European nations, generally, did not overly interfere with actual cultures... in fact, the British learnt from other cultures, rather than Blandardisation, which is an American speciality, I think you'll agree. I think the main problem with the American mainstream is that it focuses almost solely on America and on reinforcing its message that the USA is infallible, that to question the state is tantamount to Treason, and that everything is A-OK, and it's the rest of the world that is Wrong. Don't forget, this is a country that has made a LOT of money fucking over developing countries via the WTO and the IMF ... it has destroyed the economies and liveliehoods of scores of developing nations, under the banner of Free Trade (free trade for the USA ... hobson's choice servitude for the developing nations). This is a nation that has refused to allowed democratically-elected leaders to take office in countries, instead overtly or, through subterfuge, installing their own puppets, usually Right Wing. And this is the country who tells itself, and the entire globe, that we are Jealous because it is the bastion of Freedom and Democracy. Once, I advocated guerilla tactics to fight this -- now, have renounced those views, and am looking for peaceful solutions. Time to step outside the 'Western' |
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wow you're just better than everyone lately |
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What do you mean 'lately'? |
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I totally agree with what you wrote on your first paragraph. However I disagree with your over zealous spite with America. Assimilation genocide etc etc has been a trait of the human race over the years. For example the Anglosaxons assimilated the celtic element in britain, the hindo europeans assimilated the phoenicic-semetic element that resided in the balkan peninsula etc etc but that doesn't even matter anymore because the new enemy of mankind-neo liberalism has america only as a carrier,as a bodyguard as a bully. Europe is a carrier too and it is trying to engulf the east too. I don't even think that americans are so overzealous about that...maybe the southern states. A close friend of mine told me that most of the people he knows are quite neutral and indifferent about what's going on. This is what neo liberalism as a natural tendency and not only as a socio-economical and political system feeds on. I am sorry in advance for the spelling mistakes |
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My friend is a greek, sceptic like me that is currently studying in the usa. |
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Hegemony is easier in our "global" society, but i'd imagine that it has always been there. Indifference stems from ignorance; of the systems that manipulate our ideas (and therefore behaviour), of the constantly re-written past, of the mere existence of other belief systems. Stereotyping and sanitizing other cultures and belief systems feeds into the neo-liberal system: even beliefs are a commodity to be traded in. |
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A key word is specialisation |
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Sorry to change the subject, but have you seen Yavo on slsk at all today? |
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Yes, Europe has its Colonial past, it has its slavery. America, with the first pilgrims, took over a lot of the European mentality. However, with its influx of fundamentals and pioneers etc, its mentality changed to one of a culture of violence and one of dominance and one lacking self-reflection. Look at the chaging dynamics of the Native Americans, who have been Romanticised after being decimated by the settlers, for a prime example of all three of these. these "enlightened" times, swaggers around the globe in some paper-thin guise of performing Justice, USA style. And also note that a lot of the ills of Europe are because of the American Influence. America isn't about choices or freedom, and it goes about making other nations submit, either by over Violence, by Financially ruining them, or by invading it with the "Hamburger Violence". |
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Sorry, Emma, I was out all day. SLSK is running right now, but I checked and "venkman" isn't online. Is he AWOL? |
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congratulations, marlowe. |
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he is =o( I'm in work and I'm going straight out after, and I've left my mobile at home, and I need my friends number, and he's not not answering the phone, and he's gonna get a spanking |
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Yes what you describe is neo-liberalism... the economical side of the age of information. A spiral of doom based on excuses to make the people not feel bad about themselves. What is behind all this shit? The american government? I don't think so. Maybe--- probably the usa due to the decay of the european hegemony after WWII was a breeding ground for such a memetic storm but we have to come to our senses. Multinational Corporations may have sprung from the USA they may control us either through poverty or sloth, but they don't recognise the sense of a nation. Let me make a prediction. There is a good chance the USA will eventually implode economicaly. Who will be the new shell for neo liberalism? Yes the EU. Anyway I am afraid this is the only place human culture could lead to. I am afraid this is inevitable. |
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spankings=awesome |
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America has had a single-minded philosophy of dominance and destruction since way before WWII. I'm not targeting merely the US Govt. but the American Entity, which does not mean I hate Americans, which I don't. I hate the entity of "America", this entity which has a stranglehold on the rest of the world, and which equates Self with the World. There is no other solution but the American solution. There is no other culture but the American culture. There is no other Symbolism but the American Symbolism. There is no other language but the American Language. There is no other form of governance but the American Form. There is no other form of Entertainment but the American Form... they are destroying economies, destroying cultures, destroying languages, destroying customs, and they keep their people in total ignorance. This is why it came as such a shock to the American public that the rest of the world (apart from israel!) hates America so much, the Symbol, the Myth, and the Reality. |
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What you describe is the way an immature person reacts to a sudden rise to power. This is arrogance, this is stupidity. I agree it goes on in an extent but realise one thing: The thing that led to that is something much more subtle, sly and sneaky. It hides behind values like religion, sexual orientation, equality and takes advantage of them. What you hate about america is just temporary. The thousands of parrallel minds that bring neo-comercialism, neo liberalism etc to flesh make the whole system much more elastic and adaptable. Much easier to be absorbed by humans. Much easier to be replicated. The system(because we are not talking about the will of a bunch of people but about a vastly complicated socio economical mechanism) will know how to assimilate everything and keep everyone moderately happy and of course under a leash. Expressions of patriotism and arrogance will be things of the past. I am certain about that. |
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equality=racial equality |
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RE: U571. Our navy hates that film. We captured Enigma machine. We captured a second one to confirm that they were all the same. There was no need to capture a third one. The yanks wanted in on the act so for no discernable reason, captured a third one. They then tried to (in the film) make it look as though they captured it and won the war. A small note in the credits explained that we got it first... |
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I hate America (not the real one, but the one everyone always gets so worked up about). |
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marlowe... i agree with you violence will only make our plight worse of course so will innaction |
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is striking out of defense and allowed act? someone comes at me with a knife, I make sure they never have kids... |
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Marlowe it is reassuring to see that you've realized that violence isn't the answer, but dont repress your anger. But I'm sure you're smart enough to have another outlet for your aggression by now. :) So whats the new plan to make the world a better place? |
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i agree with you america is the best, but agree that there is a lot of bullsh*t stuff that happens here oh and violence NEVER is the answer, its just a power struggle |
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these threads have gotten boring. |
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THE LACK OF GOOD MUSIC COMING OUT IN THE LAST 10 YEARS IS GETTING BORING. |
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"I think some of the West has deeply entrenched "values" based on Violence being the Only Solution ..." Is it not the "solution" that is the entrenched "value" of the West? |
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Thad, how on earth can you say that "America is the best?" What do you know about other nations and their cultures? What do you based "best" on? On controlling the International Monetary Fund, the World Trade Organisation and the World Bank, so that Developing Nations are screwed through a system of debt that they can never pay, and are therefore chained to American economically, and have to allow US corporations to come in and take away the little money they do make from their own land? On controlling a lot of the Global media by selling their plastic shows around the world at rates so cheap, that local programme makers simply cannot compete (since US shows make back their money in the US, anywhere else is a nice little profit, so they can afford to sell to some nations cheap so as to undermine indigeninous film-makers / programme makers)? What exactly makes America the Best? |
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Antarctica has the strongest currency, atleast that is my understandings from the chats with Paul F. Savage. Paul - will you still be GABBASHING dole bludging teenagers? :@ |
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violence as a means to great film or videogames is cool with me. |
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BAM! |
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seems to me that until you americans stop calling jam, jelly I'm never going like you! ;-) *the original empire builders* |
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hehe, saul I will always be ready for some good ole' fashioned Gabbashing ;) |
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doing evil in the name of good or whatever never really made sense to me. the population always end up paying the price instead of the instigators anyway. mind you i once or twice got hit by people and had no other choice than to defend myself. i dont feel like getting stabbed by some kids as doctorMo pointed out..... ha ha! @ |
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