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Zappa was a composer. You haven't heard Yellow Shark or any of his other orchestral pieces have you? |
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yes, but I still won't put him in classical. |
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Ok. I understand how you'd rather not call him classical. But when I listen to his rock albums I can still hear classical influence. Anyway, the way you categorise is up to you, I was just citing some artists who I thought would show that classical music was still done well and I really like what Zappa did on those records. |
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Yeah, Reich is the man, I'd class him as different to "classical" music though. His music is more akin to electronic/sample based music in terms of composition style than say baroque chamber music... There is a lot of classical I like though and I agree wholehertedly with your statement, "But I think there is something for everyone, not just in classical but in every genre." Even genres like country and western, garage and EMO which I regularly mock have a few good tracks/artists. |
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I wonder if I can find a person to classify as a "classical" artist within each genre of music... there ARE electronic classical artists, they are just classical composer-type people who use electronics.. are there classical rappers or classical turntablists? |
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celloncllone > "monoid obviously hasn't listened to any classical yet, because classical is like fuckin butter on bread......you gotta have it man. and if you think you don't you're just some asswit who thinkgs electronic msuic is the answer to everything" > so, replying that doesn't make you look like some asswit who thinks classical music is the answer to everything at all.... = / |
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"Modern electronic music is far more complex, dare I say it ! You have an open pallet" - which pieces are you comparing? - are the pieces representative of the whole "genre"? - complex in what way? - why is "more complex" or "an open pallet" better? - has anyone ever succesfully replaced a violin (+violinplayer) with a computer? |
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yep he's definately an asswit electronica IS the answer to all, BIATCH |
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marlowe: i happen to think satie is the greatest piano composer ive ever heard, and NOT because i heard d james mention him (in fact, i first heard his work in 'the royal tennenbaums'). |
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I first heard it in Short Circuit 2. I can play that song. Lovely stuff. |
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theres a satie piece in short circuit 2? hahahahaha |
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Modern electronic music has the option of using a classical instrumentalist in it if the want, as well as computer, drum machines, etc. Look at Death in Vegas' Scorpio Rising... Classical music is more limited because it only has the option of classical instrumentalists (unless you count travesties like dance remixes of Beethoven's 5th ;-). Drunken Master: I don't think there are any classical rappers as the music they make never sounds "old", even if it uses samples of piano music from the '20s or a classical piece of music as the backing track. The nearest to classical turntabilism I've heard is D-Styles' Bstard Language Tour (DVD out now), 5 'tabilsts making music that sounds almost nothing like turntable music and it's a lot more like 30s/40s lounge/early jazz type stuff. You do get turntabilists using classical music in their routines (look for Ride of the Valkyries in old DMC vids!), but I'd class that like the rappers- they're just using a bit of sampled classical music as a part of their music and it doesn't dominate the sound of the whole piece. |
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However, I think you have to accept classical music definately has a timeless quality. You can see people will almost certainly still be listening to Mozart et al in 200 years time, whereas I doubt Ae, RDJ, etc. will get much airplay. Heck, IDM might even be viewed with the same sort of contempt that Dadaism is now (by most people). |
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I don't think dadaism is "viewed with contempt"..? it is still seen as a highly influential period in art history. |
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that wholly depends if you see "classical music" as just the old stuff, or also modern classical music, which also uses computers and drum machines, etc. otherwise you're just comparing technical possibilities, which you should view apart from the music itself. |
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Dadaism was a bit of a childish "break all the rules" period, which, whilst I agree was neccessary (if only to prove that without some level of "science" to art, in the structure or form of it, it is nonsense), is no longer really valid. Now the novelty of the concept has worn off, it is (in all but a few hardcore bohemian circles) either done from the point of view of study or just a bit of a joke, or at least, slightly tongue in cheek. I don't think you still get many really "serious dadaists" now... Second post: So, are you saying things like Death in Vegas, Portishead, etc. are classical? Please list some artists that make (what your man on the street would consider)classical music, with drum machines, synths, PCs, etc? Secondly, highlight even one of those that comes close to your classical greats like Mozart, Beethoven, Barber, Wagner, Orff, Shostakovich, etc. in terms of quality and style of composition. |
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Further to the point about dadaism, I can see how you could argue that it doubtless affected things like Burroughs' writing style, but really, that's just a small part. It's like distortion, you use a bit on a track to spice it up, but if you use it so there's nothing but distortion, it all sounds, a) alike, b) gash and c) Is utterly skilless. |
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i'd agree with mapateeze where he says "monoid you suck" and that rachmaninov would rape all you pussies. debates on this board about classical music are always incredibly contrived and full of shit. keep to what you know. |
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if my friend sam came to this board, he'd tell you some stuff about beethoven using fibonacci that'd make afx & the rest crap their pantaloons. |
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"Dadaism was a bit of a childish "break all the rules" period, which, whilst I agree was neccessary (if only to prove that without some level of "science" to art, in the structure or form of it, it is nonsense), is no longer really valid." No, Dada was actually an attempt to reset the rules rather than break them.. "Now the novelty of the concept has worn off, it is (in all but a few hardcore bohemian circles) either done from the point of view of study or just a bit of a joke, or at least, slightly tongue in cheek. I don't think you still get many really "serious dadaists" now..." look closer.. the influence that Dada had on music, film, visual art and literature is still very much alive. "Further to the point about dadaism, I can see how you could argue that it doubtless affected things like Burroughs' writing style, but really, that's just a small part." That was Brion Gysin who introduced Burroughs to his "experimental" period.. but thats quite a crap example considering Dada had been around for what, 30 years(?) when they encountered it. I think not only is your idea of Dada inaccurate, the idea that it is viewed with contempt...erm (when in reality its a very well respected and valid period in art) - it also serves no purpose in this thread. :) |
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"look closer.. the influence that Dada had on music, film, visual art and literature is still very much alive." Yeah, the keyword there is influence. Look at my analogy with distortion... A bit of Dadaism certainly has tinged a lot of modern works of art and is no bad thing, however, my point was about works where it's taken to extremes and they are nothing but Dadaism. Anyway, like you say, it's nothing to do with this thread :) |
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"Yeah, the keyword there is influence." Influence is all whats left.. which kind of makes your point about "serious dadaists" complete tosh.. there are no "dadaists" at all.. (the movement is over -- 1916-1966) "Look at my analogy with distortion... A bit of Dadaism certainly has tinged a lot of modern works of art and is no bad thing, however, my point was about works where it's taken to extremes and they are nothing but Dadaism." like i said - it wouldn't be considered Dada.. (btw, its just called "Dada", not "Dadaism" :D) |
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actually, i'd call steven stapleton a true dadaist. |
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You think Satie's limited works for piano are better than Chopin's and Beethoven's? You're off your rocker. |
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its not what a painter paints, but what he chooses not to. |
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Banality dressed up as Profundity. Go back to your Chopin and Beethoven records, then try to say that Satie was the best piano composer EVER... hell, listen to Mozart's and Clementi's piano works ... Satie's Gnossiennes are excellent, his Gymnopedies are good, tho repetitive -- apart from those, there's hardly an amazing back catalogue of Piano Works... Example, his Sonatine Beaurocratique, a slight piece of satire -- basically a slight variation on a sonata by Clementi, WooHoo... Voltaire was a great satirist, but that doesn't make him the greatest novelist. |
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i think it's nice. |
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Satie is the man. Clean, crisp, emotional and precise. No wasted notes, no unneccessary flourishes. Chopin was more, well, ornate then Satie. Satie is like Chopin with all the wrought iron scraped away, revealing shiny chrome, matte canvas and mirrors. OK I'm up my arse but you all know what I mean. |
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btw, its just called "Dada", not "Dadaism" I thought "Dada" refered to the work (for example, Dada writing, Dada painting, etc), "Dadaism" to the movement/ideal/philosophy? On a rather unrelated note, what do you make of the Hip Hop group, Big Dada Sound? Reckon they live up to the name? :) |
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Total bullshit. Chopin had no un-necessary flourishes ... check the tightness of his Preludes, the searing emotion and resonance of his Nocturnes, the plaintiffness of the mazurkas. Satie is a minor composer in the Realm of Composers. |
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satie is who aphex aspires to in his melodies .... well not quite like that but if you listen to satie it will sound like aphex to you .... unless you knew satie first and then heard aphex you'd say he (afx) was copying him ... classical music has loads of people syncronized together playing in unison creating subtle stuctures in the air with the music ..... interfacing the body /instrument ..... i can't say i've felt a deeper cleaner bass than that of an orchestra .... well maybe aba shanti i but that's a whole other point ..... if you want , chek out bela bartok , he actually started to view the whole orchestra as an instrument as oppssed to all the sections ... he's modern ... |
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It's kick-ass nonimposing "background music" though. I remember putting on a CD I made of various piano works of his for the duration of dinner whilst I was DJing at a big garden party. |
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Hey, I like Satie a lot, but "nonimposing background music" doesn't qualify the composer as THE best for that instrument. I'm tired of certain people, who, in their vain attempts to be contemporary, overlook the history, and its import and greatness. People think Cage et al were ground-breaking, well guess what, so were Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, and Chopin. It's all relative. |
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Yep, and like the point I made Re: IDM artists earlier, I wonder how many people will listen to Cage, Glass and co. in 200 years time, compared to the millions that will still listen to Bach/the old school. |
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"I thought "Dada" refered to the work (for example, Dada writing, Dada painting, etc), "Dadaism" to the movement/ideal/philosophy?" nope, the whole things just called Dada... and if you're involved you are indeed a "Dadaist". and the word apparently has no meaning. |
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Im really into Ligeti and Tod Dockstader. Listen to Dockstader's Apocalypse Part 4 if you like Parhelic Triangle. |
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apex twinŽs is best clasicle composer because he make alvil 14 which (imo) is crossover so beutifulŽ piano tracks. |
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not really a "classic" track. It's a piano pice, but not classical music. |
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SUCK A GUN! |
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