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I'm talking in moral terms... is there a shock limit? Could paedophilia, suicide, rape, murder etc be considered art IF they were treated as aesthetic or conceptual elements (or even if they weren't?) Were the 9/11 attacks art on some level? (after all, surely they were designed with spectacular visual impact in mind...) And just who the fuck determines how far the artist should go? Himself? Society? The legal system? *ponders* |
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art has no limits... if it crosses the limit then its probably not art |
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hahha. brilliant. |
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i really dont think art goes too far, unless it ends up harming someone physically or mentally without their wanting it to. other than that, just about anything can be considered art, as long as there are intentions for it. for instance, the 9/11 attacks really cant be considered art because they werent meant to; they were meant to start an unneeded war (and did) and kill thousands of innocent people, not to be considered as art |
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the only limit is your mind. |
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if a woman shaking 600,000 peoples' hands over the course of a few months, or that same woman cleaning a patch of sidewalk for 24 hours is considered art, i guess anything could be.... |
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does that make the houston 620 art ;) |
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9/11 clashes with my couch so it can't be art. Good art matches your furniture. |
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isnt that fen shui (spelling) |
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that's not as silly as it sounds. arrt is something differrent to everryone. if a bit of arrts purrpose is to match someones sofa and it does... then it's good in that it fullfils its purrpose. if the arrt is intended to shock and it does then it's good because the arrtist crreated frrom nothing, something that does what he intended it to do. therre is differrent arrt forr everryone, not just snobs who 'know what they arre talking about' |
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Who defines what is art? Is it the viewer or the creator? |
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i believe it's the creator. |
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if you don't believe me, look at the "dada" style. :D |
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That's how i think too... good old marcel duchamp :D another question: can something be art even if it wasn't intended to be? |
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there are no boundaries. art/music is limitless. paedophilia, suicide, rape, murder etc have all been used in/to make art. Though, something tells me I should be careful with the p-word on this board, due to previous experiences. |
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What about "found" art? It can mean one thing to the creator, another to the artist who frames and presents it, and still another to the spectator. I dunno, maybe Osama Bin Laden thinks I have an ugly couch. |
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The Viewer and the Creator are equally important as eachother. If u showed 100 people a peice of art, you would get 100 slightly different but unique interpretations on what it means to each of them. Thats why there are so many different opinions on what is good art and what isnt. |
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Didnt aphex play recorded Rape sounds at his barbican gig? Or was that just fucked up hype? |
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i think it could - the eye of beholder is the variable in all art, the one thing that is never the same, because, as KADO says, everyone perceives art in a unique fashion. |
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Let's see, so far we've mentioned pedophilia and terrorism in this thread - let's also talk about guns and drugs to keep the CIA entertained! Blah blah blah, guns drugs hamburgers amputation murder nazi hitler militia hello kitty |
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i don't think we can define arrt. we can trry but we will neverr do it. it's like human behaviourr. psychologists come up with theorry upon theorry to explain and define it and each one as good as it sounds is utterrly flawed. arrt is the same, it's farr to complicated to define. |
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That's exactly what the book Godel Escher Bach is about, but you just said it in a lot fewer words. :-) |
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don't forget martha stewart and the mayor of philadelphia.... |
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i dont believe its an artform to inflict suffering on another.. unless were talking about that kinky stuff |
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everything pretty is permitted |
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art is art if you say its art and you are an artist |
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oooohhh yeah, and Halliburton and Enron and the Freemasons and the Illuminati and David Icke and.... |
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btw, is that andy warhol in your avatar? |
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I think that's true... probably because we're all bringing our unique perspectives to it, art and music both mean subtly different things to different people. It's the same with the noise vs music argument. |
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Only if you're an artist? |
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yes |
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you can create art without being an artist, and you can't say what is art and what isn't art if you aren't an artist |
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*can't |
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Fair enough. That's me told then. :-) |
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Yo Anus. Is Arrt what pirates make? |
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Yeah, I'm gonna go paint some soup cans now. |
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art should go as far as the artist sees fit. holding back only hurts our cultural evolution. |
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another wank thread |
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Crime isn't art....no matter how you dress it |
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i wouldn't say that Duchamp believed that the artist determined the art... he comes at it from a pragmatic viewpoint: that is to say a something is aethetic if i treat it as such? so whoever views it as art determines whether or not it is (to them)... i wonder to what extent we can even distinguish the creator from the viewer in art, because both play similar roles in the process... another place where one might draw a distinction is between aesthetic and those that interact with it... |
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i disagree, Jedi Chris... art isn't defined by some sort of morality... it is an unadulterated expression of the human condition in all the colours that that condition manifests itself... |
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Jedi Chris always thinks his way of seeing things is the "right" way. |
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ever heard of peter sotos? visual art celebrating child rape and murder. or whitehouse? music that is motivated by sadistic intent. if art relies on communication to have meaning, art that defies the values of most people (eg celebrates paedophilia, murder etc) will be infamous at best, litigated into obscurity, or remain unknown, buried and forgotten. the vast majority of art objects intended for public consumption (in the west) are created as objects of commerce. so the largest influence on western art at the moment is the demands of the market. was 9/11 a work of art on some level? is my shirt a pair of pants on some level? and yet, consider films like the recent "texas chainsaw massacre." not everyone will agree with me, of course, but to me a film like this is an artful entertainment selling the thrill of watching the fictional but utterly realistic hunting down and murder of human beings. to most people, it seems, this is unquestioningly acceptable and harmless. a tree bearing rotten fruit is what i see. in the long run, art is utterly ephemeral. |
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grraffiti on public walls forr example. that's a crrime but it's still arrt... |
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to me, texas chainsaw massacre does a public service as well: being based on a true event, it sheds light on an extreme state of the human condition. |
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If the purpose of what you make is to be shocking, then what you're trying to accomplish has already been done to death. Even if you could get someone else to consider it 'art', it'll still be shallow and contrived. If you have to stoop to the level of being shocking just to get a reaction out of people, then, in my opinion, you should most likely find something better to do with your time. |
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arrt rreplicating life rreplicating arrt? |
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not much is shocking nowadays. except perhaps the really creepy people that are mentioned here. but thats not something that you want to see (doesnt that constitute art?) |
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What kind of irrational person would I be I thought any other way :P |
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And just who the fuck determines how far the artist should go? Himself? Society? The legal system? i dont think it has anything to do with the legal system - you may get arested but it still is art i think its up to every individual and his perception - i think body art - i saw an "artist" cutting his body and bleding like a pig, actually he was even hanging as a pig (after they get slaughtered - to let the blood out) - i dont concider this art, but many people do so i pretty much think there are no limits to it... it only depends whats legal and whats not on people (and their individual opinion on this) that are in position to determin whats art and what isnt...in some countries some things are allowed that would put an artist in jail in another country for sure |
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