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I've been listening to IDM now for almost two years, and I'll be honest, as many of you know (and often remind me...heheh) at first I found quite a lot of it hard going to listen to. I really enjoy quite of lot now, but still some of what is discussed around here, to me is still very difficult on my ears... My question for you to discuss is when does music become noise.....where is the line drawn? At what point can IDM be taken before it is unlistenable? |
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apparently to the point where people actually call it 'noise' but i havent been able to listen to any of that. smojphace blows, and that's that. |
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when there's no beat or melody whatsoever i consider it noise. the point where IDM can be taken before it's unlistenable is different for each person i think btw something being noise doesn't automatically mean it's unlistenable, don't mix these two up i enjoy listening to noise (eg. merzbow satanstornade) now and then, it's not unlistenable at all imo |
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i'd say when the music is almost without any structure or anything. just layers of sound where you have to find your own rythm etc. sorta. merzbow is noise i guess. |
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Music becomes noise when you stop enjoying it. |
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I quite often listen to some tracks, and think, what the hell is the artist on? Do they really think this sounds good - they obviously do. |
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The thing with sounds is that they can be very emotive. Like sounds on Bilious Paths, while the album sounded really fresh Mike P went back in time and used all classic samples, they made me real quite nostalgic and that is the way i feel about the album. Not everyone has the same reaction to a set sound or texture. But so called 'noise' music can be produced by anyone and requires no musical talent at all. |
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But so called 'noise' music can be produced by anyone and requires no musical talent at all. I agree, I just wanted someone else to say that, otherwise I'd be slated! :P |
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when an artist makes something which he considers as music, it is music... or... when he does something that he has control of, but i'm not sure (the line is even blurry, you never control something totally anyway - and you can control yourself knocking a printer down with a hammer for example, but i'm not sure it would be really music...) ~ well if there was a definite answer i suppose we wouldn't be there discussing it! =D anyway, here's two nice quotes about this problem: "if 'noise' is defined as 'uncomfortable sound', then pop music is noise to me." - merzbow "for a well-trained ear, there is no sound that cannot be considered as a music - and vice-versa." - shadok |
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Hmmmmm not sure on that last quote. |
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All sound can be appreciated but it doesn't make it music. It is no different than modern art, it is possible for a person to appreciate the visual aspect of the work, however in most cases the peice itself hasn't been the product of talent. |
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I think it boils down to taste.......but how is that defined? What makes someone not like something.......can we even answer this? |
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What makes someone not like something.......can we even answer this? No,it's impossible. |
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shadoks was an old french cartoon, which was not made to be taken seriously anyway... ; ) other shadok quotes include: "the more it fails, the more it is likely to work!"` (*because, if you have 1 chance out of 10 that it will work, if you try 9 times and fail 9 times, you're absolutely sure that the 10th time it will work!) "if you want to keep as many happy people as possible, always knock on the same ones!" "when you don't know where to go, you must go there, and as fast as possible!" (the sound/music one was the most serious one actually =D) |
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Real controversy now.......take a look at the Top 40. Those people are surely talented, 'some' can sing very well. So putting aside whether or not you like there music, these people are talented, yes or no? |
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heh i just wanted to post the merzbow quote too, it's just a matter of what you like to listen to, i don't see why people who don't like noise always have to bash this genre, there's obviously plenty people who enjoy it, just let them |
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just listen to a waterfall, that's 'noise' too, but absolutely beautiful, me thinks. in this way noise can be very pleasant, as long as the sounds of it aren't made of disturbing frequencies there's nothing wrong with it.... |
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First of all, a division must be made. Noise as a genre or noise as a subjective term for what's listenable and what's not. In the case of noise being the genre, there is a pretty good description for it: Defiantly nonmelodic, Noise relies on the interplay of unusual and heavily effected sounds to create structure. Static, feedback, distortion, sample mauling and found sounds are mixed and meshed together to create music that ranges from sparsely minimal to densely assaultive. In the case of noise being a term for sound that is unpleasant to one's ears, I guess that's something totally personal. One might find e.g. CapIV noise, whereas I wouldn't categorise it as noise (the genre) |
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Making Orange Things is somewhere between the two for definite. (IMO) |
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CapIV is noise. Period. :P |
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I agree... ...and I don't like it. |
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when music becomes noise or when noise becomes music depends from person to person imo noise(the term when you first hear a peace of music where you dont hear any structures) can become music if you try to listen if there are paterns, well sometimes our mind isnt able to hear/see/feel those structeres at the first listen, but after several times you can see it coming up onto the surface. A good example for me is spokes, the first time i heard it i didnt like it, i didnt hear any nice melodies that i know plaid can create so i was very dissapointed, but i do know how good they are if it is about making music, so i decided to give them another chance and another and another and now i do hear very beautiful structures that makes me happy... what I always say to ppl that are new to IDM = PLAY TWICE BEFORE LISTENING |
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I'd never say people haven't got talent, however the application of talent, and also who deserves the real credit is often a lot more ambiguous in the charts. Also if people choose to only use a portion of their talent in an effort to earn more money (commercialisation) then on an artistic level that is disgusting, although you can understand why they do it. |
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This doesn't cross my mind, and I don't care to think about it. I just listen |
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CapIV is FAR from noise...it is complex but it has everything in it...amazing patterns, subtle melodies. I posted a while ago about listening to this track while stoned...it is seriously one of the most unbeleivable experiences I have ever had while listening to music. When the track stopped it was like having the ground pulled from underneath me and I was numb for about 5 minutes afterwards. |
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oh MAN you are so right! cap.iv really whups a mules behind wit' a belt. |
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There was this little cd/record/vintage clothing shop in my hometown called the museum of unfine arts. my friend was looking at vinyl and asked the guy to put gantz graf on to try it out. the reaction of the people there was great, they all immediately turned their heads and were like "whoa, what is that?" |
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Yes. This easily goes as one of the, if not THE, most brilliant work(s) by ae. |
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oh no, it's noisy perhaps yes but not noise |
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It could be noise to him, looking at my second definition of the term, but it's definately not to be categorised as noise (as a music genre) |
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heh, it's like what people thought when they first heard distorted guitars. "What's that NOISE? you call that music?" |
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I always find that friends I have listened to my electronic collection think it is good when I haven't told them I am putting electronic music on...they seem more willing and interested to listen to the sounds then if they aren't first thinking "I'm not going to like this" |
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Gantz Graf is more noisy than Cap.IV... and i like Cap.IV very much. : ) i should listen to Gantz Graf (the EP) again someday! |
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the only music that is unlistenable to me is the majority of manufactured pop. |
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I you where to take an old tape from 80's that you have lying around collecting dust somwhere and sample some bits without any music with the intent to capture the noise curve of an 80's tape and then amplify it to a decent hearable level, you would have a piece of recorded audio which Sounds like just noise but with the knowledge of it's source you add a new dimension to the noise - not just the sounds but also the brain interpreting the sounds. So... Well, I don't know what I wanted to say with that but... Well I guess there is noise and there is noise. |
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line is drawn when no effort is put in so whereas i actually appreciated the raw aspect and (dare i say) diversity of smojphace.. the majority of ambient music holds little value for me |
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But you see, to me, I listen to some stuff and think exactly that - no effort. But the people who create the 'music/noise' obviously think different. |
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Our music teacher defined music as "Something that has structure and a consistant rhythm". So, by his definition, a tap dripping is music and anything with tempo changes is not... It's hardly suprising he was my second to least favourite teacher, is it? |
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A tap dripping isn't music, its noise. |
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I have the secret algorithm that will produce all music possible. |
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a tap dripping is a beat, just like a drum. is a drum not music? |
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That's my point... my music teacher's definition was nonsense. |
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Ahhh I see |
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noise is the opposite of music. plain and simple. |
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But its not that simple. What do you class as noise? |
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music is organised noise, usually based at least loosely in some sort of structure and usually based in a scale of tones that are agreeable to the ear. music can also brake away fromt hese modes and attempt to redefine them. noise is just that. sound. no real thought or organisation. no real content. just sound for the sake of it. |
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"no real content. just sound for the sake of it." Autechre? :P |
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no. autechre has definite emotional and aesthetical content. it's not devoid of feeling. so no. not them. |
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plus, its QUITE organised AND applies to every musical structure there is. its QUITE technical. so once again, no. |
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I wasn't being totally serious. :) |
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