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i know ;) |
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10 PRINT "If autechre is noise then Britney Spears is death metal" 20 GOTO 10 |
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Hehehehhe, sure those words are around the wrong way? :P |
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absolutely! music must have a melodic and/or at least rhythmic structure to be percepted as something ear-friendly... noise is something that fails to have any of these two 'ingredients', something that disturbs rather than pleases. here's one interesting thing... i remember hearing such stuff as Go Plastic and Confield for the first time, when i found most of it uneasy and challenging, to say the least (i wonder who didn't feel the same way). but with each new listen i felt like it was a kind of physical exercise for my brain, which gave me more and more pleasure and made me come to the point when i was longing for more. i think the reason for this is definitely that no matter how challenging this stuff might seem, it DOES have that emotional and aesthetical content john is talking about. and on the contrary, i think noone will ever enjoy such albums as, say, Maldoror's 'She' cause it's really noise, "the sound for the sake of it" (i couldn't have said it better :) if you heard this album you know what i mean. (Mike Patton with Merzbow, haha) oh, have i said too much? sorry then... *runs away* |
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maria!!!! ah, you never cease to impress, girl. :D i agree about ae... i initially found their new sound to be obtuse and irritating, now its my favorite, because it is SO engaging. |
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noise is something that fails to have any of these two 'ingredients', something that disturbs rather than pleases for you maybe, listening to merzbow seriously pleases me at times, as i've mentioned before it kinda has the same calming effect on me as ambient, this wall of sound puts you in some different state of mind. it may sound strange to you, but when i listen to merzbow there is not one moment that i'm not annoyed by it, on the contrary |
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even when Akita screeches out some assaultive high-freq sounds? |
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yeah, i mean... i dont get that. even assumign i liked his stuff, i still wouldnt get it. i dont see how it pleases at all. the wholepurppose seems to be to unnerve or very masochistic. |
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"redrum from Co. Wicklow / Dublin (Ireland) on 2003-10-26 12:59 [#00918783] Points: 193 Status: Regular noise is the opposite of music. plain and simple." > no : ) you could also say that silence is the opposite of music... or noise... or the opposite of music AND noise! tallyho > wrong. ^^ |
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I think in this era 'music' has a similarly plastic definition to 'art' ie: white canvases, urinals, etc. I think what makes something music is the intent of the author, ie: if I create something and call it music then I am asking you to interpret it as such. What most people EXPECT from music are things like: repetition, development, emotional communication. For me personally the bare minimum to consider something music is some sort of rhythmic skeleton (ie: you could make varying bursts of white noise to a 4/4 pulse and people although they probably wouldn't love it would be able to recognize it as music). Been listening to a lot of Tod Docksteader lately where these questions become quite relevant although I think as mashed and chopped as it is, it clearly is music. Especially since he himself says that he wants his pieces to give the same FEELING as a traditional piece of music although the traditional ideas of melody and rhythm are almost completely subverted. Highly reccomended by the way, his work is a very clear antecedent for a lot of what contemporary experimental producers like ae, afx, squarepusher etc are reaching for. |
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if music was like video games, with levels each time harder (depending on the difficulty to get into the music, not on the quality of the music itself), Björk would be level 1 or 2, Go Plastic or Confield would be like level 8, and Merzbow level 16... something like that! |
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thats awfully supremist. i think its a little more subjective than that. |
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A very astute point- the comparison to the "death of art", the installation. I tend to agree that the acceptance of things such as Ms. Emin's bed, Hirst's "Away from the flock" etc. have widened people's tolerance of more highly abstracted art in other forms, such as music. |
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I am personally not a big Merzbow fan however for those who don't understand the appeal of noise I think it has a lot to do with the reason people like things like horror movies and theme park rides. It's a cathartic experience, it puts you through a change over which you have little control and leaves you feeling a bit different on the other side. It can feel really good to be blasted with really loud harsh noise at times, like scraping away a few brain cells. I find this type of difficult music also compares pretty well to people who crave spicier and spicier foods. I know this has happened to me the more 'wierd' music I listen to, my brain gets accustomed to a certain level and then I want more. |
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well in the merzbow stuff i own there aren't much high-freq sounds, it's more 'low' dark and heavy layers, with some high pitched moments yeah, but not annoying ones imo :) on an other note, in the track kareha for instance you can hear he uses music samples, you hear a jazzy track played at high speed and then it's slowed down to normal for a few seconds before the growling takes over again :) |
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of course everything is subjective...!! =) |
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Hmm...you've actually made me interested in the kind of noise you experience in the same way as ambient. :D Recommendations? |
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it wouldn't be bad if some people actually watched a documentary about merzbow or read some interviews with him to try and understand his points of view. he's quite an interesting guy really y'know there's even a merzbow exposition in the museum of modern art in paris, The Museum of Modern Art (MOMA) in Paris has proudly played host to the ground-breaking "Migrateurs" exhibition by controversial Japanese artist, performer, composer and author Masami Akita, a.k.a. Merzbow. This starling exhibition incorporated an installation of the MERZBOX, a monumental multi-media project celebrating the history, music and artwork of Merzbow The incredible success of the exhibition required an extended season, with attendance figures indicating the public were enthralled by the unusual and confrontational work of Masami Akita, touching on issues of covert sexuality, pornography, art history and cutting-edge experimentation. The exhibition and installation was sponsored by Agnes B, noted fashion designer and patron of the arts. Agnes B has a chain of stores throughout Japan and on one of her visits was exposed to the work of Masami Akita. She realised that it would have immense appeal to a global audience and immediately set in motion preparation for this highly successful exhibition. |
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I think things like Merzbow, Mego, etc. can be quite cool in that by rejecting the traditional ideas of structure the artist and the listener are forced to listen harder and create or discern some new or different idea of a composition and thereby stretch your mental muscles a bit. Keep in mind, it's experimental, a definition which implicitly includes the danger of failure. For me, that risk and tension is one of the things which keeps me interested. This is something a find a bit annoying from a lot of fans of 'wierd' music. An artist experiments, finds some quite cool stuff and their fans enjoy it. Many then become bitterly angry and disappointed when the artist CONTINUES to experiment and produces something a bit more difficult. This is one of the reasons I REALLY fucking hate the whole nostalgia for a 'golden age' of experimental electronic music, that music is and was good because it was fresh interesting and progressive. Recreating SAWII in 2003 is not progressive. |
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maybe his satanstornade release on warp or 'a tast of merzbow', i personally like i could rip something from cd to mp3 and send 'em to you, the risk is of course that you might consider me and idiot after hearing them, but then again you just might find 'em .. well.. not that terrible :D |
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I don't find Merzbow unlistenable, no more so than Coil, Diamanda Galas, Bjork etc... I think it all depends on what music your used to listening to and how far your willing to go. I depends on the person. I can listen to Merzbow, Diamanda Galas, Autechre easily, however, get me to listen to some boy band, or some pop idol winner and i'd have to turn it off. |
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That's a great quote Morton, I think it really cuts to the heart of this. What Merzbow is doing is ART which may or may not be ENTERTAINMENT which seems to be what a lot of you people want. Personally if I want entertainment music I'll put on some dancehall, hiphop or soul music. If I want to think and be mentally stimulated I often want something more difficult (not to say that these musics are not also mentally stimulating, they are) which often can come into conflict with the head nodding, finger snapping entertainment aspect of things. It strikes me that if everyone were just bopping along to Merzbow though then he probably wouldn't be doing his job. |
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i got you point. then i should have said it like: "i think FEW will enjoy this album..." but it's still beyond me... i guess one's got a really long way to go to really get into this noise. but who knows... may be in a few months i will find myself living on Merzbow's stuff alone. :D |
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eXXailon > i think 'Dharma' is a good Merzbow album, that could have an ambient value as well... : ) |
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Thanks! Will check those out! |
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You my friend, are tripping on something. I just played that track you sent me, and thought my speakers were fucked up. If my stereo system made noises like that, I'd take an axe to it! :S Heheh |
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lol, i knew you'd say something like that :P |
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i wonder what people think of aphex's gwarek2 now that we speak of noise and sound being or not being music |
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that is one of the best tracks Richard has ever made, its awesome! Wether or not you would class it as music, I dont know or care... its just brilliant, thats all that matters. |
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music to me either has to have a melody, or some kind of rhythm... the whole idea about music has always been about structure, with time signatures and scales and stuff... and so, imo, without some kind of rhythm or melody, it ain't music... |
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thats right, you as a listener just Know when youre being duped :) |
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it's not about melody but about ecstasy :D |
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