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I'm gonna give up on Fruityloops...FL4.01 DOES NOT work properly doesn't matter which version i get my hands on...it STILL fucks up saved soundfonts. And since i refuse to go back to 3.56 I'm calling it quit for Fruityloops... I'm maybe going for a Reason/Cubase SX hookup with some extra programs...can anyone recommend me something? |
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I've got to be honest, I've gone back to 3.3 for most tracks now... only really use 4 to work on people's tracks that were made in 4. The only real limitation in 3.x was the lack of variable pattern lengths, as I know the work around for this, it's not worth inheriting all the flaws of FL4 for a few seconds time saving... |
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the most irritating part of this is that almost all my old demos have been reopened and saved in 4, so those projects are lost for good |
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i second this. i'm fed up with fruityloops' bullshit, i have tons of sound manager problems, not to mention it's totally fucked me over by not recognizing my oxygen8! fuckitfuckitfuckit, im buying a damn mac with some other shit instead.cheers. |
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I'm lucky- I only did that with about 4 tracks...I re-rendered them in 4 to see if they'd sound noticeably better. I kept seperate folders for the two programs. I know it's a bit of a paradox and you could argue, "If you registered it, they could afford to sort the bugs out...", but stuff like this really makes me glad I didn't register it. It's not a professional program IMO, even if you can make professional quality music in it... don't get me wrong, I love floops and I probably will register it at some point. It's not even like they're some small "independent" team like some of the tracker programs- they're a division of Cakewalk! |
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but what should i turn to know...Reason? |
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Cakewalk? No shit? Jeez... Anyways I had a LOT of teething problems with ver4, but I'm over all of them now and I'm well down with v4. The wave traveller is fuckign dope, I really should use more of that. |
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I'd say still use it- just go back to 3.56... I use Reason as well, but I miss VST support... I know you can rewire it into cubase and then use VSTs there, but I've not got round to doing that yet. Also, I like floops too much to ditch it completely. |
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at first i thought only good things too.. then i suddenly found out that some of my soundfonts sounded wierd although it said the names were right. An soundfonts are the best FL-function IMO and I use it a lot. Well anywhoo...i found out that i didn't rename the soundfonts, but it changed the sound to the standard-sound "seventeen" instead... So know a LOT of my projects are down the toilet... |
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Yes, I've got to admit, I really like the wave traveller- it's like being able to use notation to "play" scratches... not sure if I'll still use it once I have access to a stanton final scratch this summer though :D |
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...know = now ....i have done that alot resently |
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Reason 2.5 and Ableton Live is my fave combo at the moment... it's like working with an interactive studio... you can do whatever you want in real time and it never gives any shit... on a Mac obviously... i have no idea about PC's because Bill Gates is fucking the devil. |
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Yeah, I like saving off loops I've made myself in reason then sequencing them in live. As you say, there's no messing about with it... |
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Live is one of the coolest apps I've used... no one seams to know how powerful it actually is... everyone thinks it's some kind of lame Acid style loop mixer or something. I also use shit like Reaktor and Max to make mad noises... and also some weird ass shit like IXI software. |
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I'm pretty sure I don't even know what the fuck soundfonts are. Fuck it I'll learn later. Also I've never used midi in my life. |
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GO FOR REASON 2.5! No, seriously...do that. And if you don't know how to operate an "analogue synth interface" learn it because Reason is very extremely super stable, it almost never crashes or annoys me. It responds well and it has an interface that is pleasing to look at. Once you learn that the sequencer is really simple to work with you'll feel much more inclined to start on bigger projects. Reason has limitations, many of them, but it is still a very productivity friendly piece of software. The Dr.Rex for example, together with your own "Recycled" (made with the Recycle 2.0 software) drumbeats makes drumming really simple. And the new effects units in 2.5 adds more quality to the sounds... Ask if you want to know anything - I have a good grasp on Reason. |
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Not uses IXI, I'll have to look into that tonight. Teaching myself Csound at the moment, bit masochistic, but good sounds on old spec machines... |
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but what about variable drumbeats like the one i can make in FL...i mean different patterns |
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I've not played with FL for years so I don't know exactly what you mean... |
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IXI is very nice... more like toy's than actual software, but you can make amazing sounds with those apps. Also, on a Csound tip... check out Max or Supercollider... they work really well with Csound and you don't have to be a programming genius or Stephen Hawkings kid brother... |
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Hello fellow 2.5 user :) Reason 2.5 must be the only music software I've paid money for- worth it, my only criticism is mastering (before rendering to .wav) seems a bit hit and miss and as I mentioned, lack of VST support. As for help, please could you mail me (cerijc@yahoo.com) a reason file with the spider splitter/merger in it? I still haven't quite got the hang of using that... cheers. |
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well...i can make a drumbeat at 650bpm, with drills and stuff...then i copy this pattern and put it into a new pattern. Then i variate some of the drums and effect. Then I copy the first one and make a new varieted pattern again etc. Then I throw in maybe 8 of these in a row and TADA! you have a IDM-beat Can i do this on Reason? |
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I've lost track of the amount of people who've told me to convert to reason haahah |
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You can use "Re-drum" in Reason for that... Clone- I'm a PC user primarily... my ibook is a bit gash and I don't have net access/a CD drive on it so only apps that fit on disk are useable! I'm planning on using utils on the PC with nice user friendly sequencers etc, with the pure csound code edited in notepad (I forget what the mac equivalent is called) on the old ibook. |
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Use both! :) Junktion- yep, you can do all that in Reason sometimes the sequencing is more cumbersome mind... |
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Ceri: My iBook won't run things like Reason! on a Mac you can use simpletext for Csound scripting. I run things like Supercollider and IXI apps on my old Power Mac, and record onto a newer G4 Mac. Even things like NI Traktor won't run well on my iBook. |
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Sure - I've not had any reason to use that yet but I think it's pretty straight forward. If you look at the back of the CV Spider you'll see that it's divided into two, basically those two could be divided into two different "machines" since they don't affect each other. The first part is for mixing incoming CV signals. Say you have an LFO with a slow sinus wave but you want to make it a bit more interesting... Plug in the LFO output (from the Subtractor for instance) into the CV spider merger part (the one with four sockets in a row), then create a new Sub. or another synth and plug the LFO output from that one into one of the three empty sockets remaining. Now you have two LFO's working together and producing one output that can be used to control whatever you like (pitch, filter, FM...). Not extremely interesting but... The splitter works the same way as if you would splice a cord into three (don't know if splice is the right word). Sort of like an extension-cord with four outlets, but the fourth outlet is simply inverted ("up is down, down is up" - Seinfeld quote, that just popped up in my head). Still want me to send a file, it's no problem... |
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Well there is a function in Reason that lets you alter the patterns in a random way. It's not that advanced, yet. It works like this: You specify how many percent of the selected sequence you would like to randomize - default is 40 which basically changes a few notes here and there. At 100& you'll get all notes (or drumsounds if you're sequencing a beat) changed. |
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My machine is a 233mhz G3 with a 160mb ram, that's enough to run supercollider/max dsp okay? Time for me to get that CD rom drive methinks... Ah cheers for clearing up the splitter/merger... I'll give that a go tonight, I'll let you know if I still need and example file. Thanks for your help man. |
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Sure... I wish I had a legal copy like you though. I'm unemployed and cash-less at the moment so it's not gonna happen soon. How much is Reason 2.5, if you are ok with revealing that? |
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man what id do for a midi merging box.. its rough being a hardware junky! |
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Supercollider is tiny and will run on a typewriter... it's not hungry at all... Max is a bit more power hungry, bu a G3 is more than enough... Max is no picnic at first... it's pretty complex making your own devices, but there are many prebuilt things to use... kinda like Reaktor... it's easy to use the machines that come preset, but making your own shit is fuckin' braindamage! |
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not very interesting??? =) |
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Ceri, why go back to 3.3 and not 3.56? |
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I never used 3.56- upgrading is a real pain in the arse so I only bother for big updates... I may update that to 3.56 at some point, but for the moment 3.3 is fine for what I do. Joakimlinden: I've not got a legal copy... I just paid for it (bought from a naughty ebay pirate...)- I would buy a legit copy for £60 or even £100, but £300+ (once you start taking into account stuff I consider part of Reason- recycle- re-birth, the refill cds, etc.) is too much for me to afford at the moment and for what I use the s/w for. As soon as I either: a) Get signed or b) Use s/w at paid gigs I will use the money to register/legalise my s/w collection. At the moment, I'm looking at in excess of £2000 worth of s/w which I only use in a "hobby" sort of function- it's not like I make money out of it. Clone: cheers for the info! |
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yep, this is my position as well... I guess think companies like this (Propellerheads), which makes great products, really benefit in the long run from pirated copies. I would not even consider buying Reason if I hadn't been using it as much as I have. Demos just don't make me feel for the software. If I start to make money off my music I'll probably purchase Reason just to be entitled to the support and hazzlefree upgrades... |
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Yep, I remember and interview with one of the propellerheads where he said that in a way, piracy was good as it allows more people to become aware of a product. I think s/w companies are generally a bit greedy with how much they charge for music plugins/equivalents to h/w... fair enough, they do the same as a real synth etc, but they are so much cheaper to produce (once they're developed). If they had any sense they'd go for market breadth penetration and aim to sell to hobbyists- maybe at £30/40 per package- the price of videogames... You'd make more money selling 2 million copies of reason at £40 a throw than 100,000 at £200... |
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Isn't that a mystery? More customers means more potential customers right? I've often wondered why they don't cut the price on software so that more people could buy it, they would probably make just as much money, or more when you count in synergy effects like word of mouth and an interest for third-party developers to make tools and samples that makes the product even more interesting. |
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I think it stems from a hardware sales model- with the cost of manufacturing a hardware synth it need to be in the £100s anyway... at that level only professional musicians or people who are really into it will buy them. Also, back then, there wasn't the alternative like there is piracy now (short of physically stealing one). As it was pros buying them and they were in limited quantities, they would add a few £100 pounds to the price. As software has advanced to a level where it rivals/beats hardware, they seem to keep the same pricing policy, "Oh, good delay boxes cost £400+, why don't we charge £200 for our s/w one?" The difference is the actual cost of manufacturing the software is probably no more than £10 a copy once it is developed. I look at all my games boxes and think of the £1000s I must have spent on them over the years... if sequencers/all in ones were £40 and plugins/synths were about £15 (same as "Mission packs" for games), sample cds £10 etc. I'm sure all my music software would be legal. As it stands, there's a bit of the mentality, "Well, even if I legalise Reason 2.5 and Floops, there's still going to be Live, Reaktor, Absynth, FM7, etc. unlicensed..." I believe the phrase is, "May as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb"- meaning, if you're going to get busted, may as well be for lots of good software. |
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You'd make more money selling 2 million copies of reason at £40 a throw than 100,000 at £200... I think that the price very much contributes to the general opinion about a program. People have more trust in an expensive software package than in a cheap program with "probably not enough power and capacity". Agree? |
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Yes, I think pro artists might also not like to think the "common man" has access to the same tools as them- especially with the existing over saturation of the music industry... |
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Agreed. However, some programs are too difficult for the common man anyway. I'd like to see all those 14 year old kids have a go at their $40 Max/MSP copy (instead of $498) :D |
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No, I don't agree. You often pay for the Image of the product, which is a whole bussiness in itself. Diesel jeans for example: You don't pay the poor asian workers that are forced to put in overtime if they want to keep their jobs, often sleeping in crowded bunks with tens of people in the same room inside these factories, where some women get abused and where the bosses sometimes punishes people for talking to eachother. No... What you do pay for are PR consultants and marketing experts that try oh so hard to associate your jeans with a lifestyle of sex, beautiful people and lush living. Quite contrary to what the jeans really are made from. Ooops... I did it again. Off topic as usual. |
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Perhaps all the really pro stuff could stay partly hardware based (like kyma & max/msp maxi-patch) to reserve that for the pros. Fair play to them, max is only $100 for students... |
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I partly agree with you. Yes, the price you pay for software is also for the image it has, but if you compare "cheap music software" and pro tools that cost a lot of money, you'll see that the latter category is so much more complex and has many more features. Reason and similar packages (similar in terms of features and capacity) were developed using profound research. Also think of the development costs (designers, programmers!). Cubase for example. Cubase for instance can't even be compared to your average $20 MIDI studio. |
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My Diesel comment was a little irrelevant, but still true. Research is an important factor in the pricing, but by now most algorithms have been developed and tested allready (there are many free plugins that can easily compete with professional ones) - what's left is to make easy to use interfaces and perhaps optimizing code down to hard "machine code" so that you can run more stuff without problems. There are some new innovative plugins out there but...they are free :) http://www.smartelectronix.com/ |
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Ah, yes but the updates are usually for free (that is if you registered properly). |
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junktion: maybe you just have the demo version of the soundfont player. |
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Not with Reaktor :) |
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