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mappa, i am listening. i'm talking about your statement, "i know that god does not exist." which is what you mean when you say, "god does not exist." unless you mean "i believe god does not exist." in which case, how can you be so certain, as certain as the true believer? |
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Taking the analogy of the easter bunny again, how is the refutation of the easter bunny any different? Do you know that the easter bunny does not exist, or do you believe that the easter bunny does not exist? |
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It's very similar to what is prevented by the court system, that is, the burden of evidence has to be on whether the accused actually committed the crime, not that he *didn't* commit the crime. Meaning, there has to be evidence that the crime was committed by that person, you can't just say: "Well prove that you DIDN'T commit it" without evidence. YOu can't prove God by saying: prove that he doesn't exist while there is no reason to prove that he does exist. |
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consider the different origin of the concepts, "god" and "the easter bunny." god is a vast and variable concept whose emergence is linked to the emergence of human awareness itself. god, as a concept, is older than human memory. the easter bunny is a silly fabrication linked to a traditional yet fairly recent pastime, regardless of the links to the symbols of the rabbit and the egg. forgive my directness, but to think that you can disprove god by disproving the easter bunny seems a bit childish. after all, no one believes in the easter bunny except very young children. |
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mappa, nowhere in my comments did i communicate an intent to prove the existence of god. |
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if you intend to rely solely on reason, it seems that the only honest position (barring further evidence) is agnostic. |
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weathered: i am not offended. i feel sympathy for those who are lost. i try to be a very empathetic person. and what's so wrong with a little organisation? are you mad at the beliefs or how badly people can't live up to them? like i have said, much of the christianity being spread through the world is NOT how it is laid out in the Bible. so it is inherently false, because it goes against the very core of the belief. and as far as judgement goes: it is an over-worked point, this judgement issue. it is also a point that non-christians quote more than christians themselves. you apparently don't get the concept, if you think making a decision is wrong. we are called to have discerning hearts, which means we must judge things for ourselves. i find it ironic how often non-chrisitans try to use the bible in retaliation to the gospel. i mean, all of a sudden *BAMF!* instantanious bible scholar. |
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and by the way, i am as of now LEAVING this conversation. my pupose was to make a request, not start an incredibly immature and negative theological debate. my apologies for causing this kind of crap in a topic about books. this ENTIRE thing has been WAY off topic. |
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sorry, to FILL a request. |
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You are a human above all things, even christian. Heres a story of how the devil and friend of his were walking down the street when they saw ahead of them a man stoop down and pick up something from the ground, look at it, and put it away in his pocket. The friend said to the devil, "What did the man pick up?" "He picked up a piece of Truth," said the devil. "That is a very bad business for you, then," said his friend. "Oh not at all," the devil replied, "I am going to let him organize it." The truth is what we all search for, and you will not find it written in any book, or find it in any religion. Truth, being limitless, unconditioned, unapproachable by any path whatsoever, cannot be organized; nor should any organization be formed to lead or to coerce people along particular path. If you understand that, then you will see how impossible it is to organize a belief. A belief is purely and individual matter, and you cannot and must not organize it. If you do, it becomes dea, crystalized; it becomes a creed, a sect, a religion, to be imposed on others. |
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i did not say that you could not make a decision. who are you to say that i am not a christian? perhaps you can share with us, what is a christian? then we can decide for ourselves, if we are or if we are not! judging people, and judging things, or ideas, are not the same. you are called to love people, not to browbeat them with self-righteousness. forgive me if that sounded judgemental! : ) |
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being a christian means the following (and i am only responding for the benefit of those who don't know this, them i'm done): believing in and relying on the fact that Jesus (or Jeshua or whatever you think you wanna call him) was the only son of God, the Messiah, and that he came to earth to clean the slate of sin. that is the ONLY criteria for being a christian. |
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so, wizard, we have a winner in the "most controversial book recommendation." although "a historical survey of farming techniques of rural iowa 1865-1900" was to be my next recommendation, so let me not speak too hastily. |
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tibbar, we can only thank you for your willingness to tolerate us this far. : ) |
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tibbar says that jesus came here to provide us with the cake he baked; i say that he came here to give us his recipe. at least we can be at peace, if we choose. |
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---> topic steppenwolf by hesse (a book like a trip) Hitchhikers Guide to the Galxay by douglas adams (this funny story really gave me a new point of view) Solaris by Stanislaw Lem can give you lots of perspectives in love The diaries of ijon tichy by stanislaw Lem (many fables and shorts in SF) |
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you can stick the bible up your ass! |
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maybe you could you wide assed mo' fo' |
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not if there's twelve copies of dianetics up there already! |
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I'm suprised no one's mentioned Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maitnance. I'm reading it right now, it's a dawm good book, and quite enlightening. |
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milan kundera - the unbearable lightness of being reading it now great!! |
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wow, this discussion is totally bizarre to me. i'm shocked. |
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through the looking glass- lewis carroll naked lunch-william burroughs old angel midnight and on the road-jack kerouac lateral thinking-edward de bono animal farm and 1984-george orwell art of war-sun tzu civil disobedience- david henry thoreau |
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