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i'm not trying to start any trouble but i think this might help you in the long run. what if i were to tell you... 1. that "a warm place" is a huge ripoff of a song from 1980? you might want to give a listen to david bowie's "crystal japan" (a scary monsters era b-side). 2. that trent's done songs with ice cube and dr. dre, and has spoken positively about eminem and many other hip-hop artists? 3. that most of the music on from the choirgirl hotel without the vocals could easily double as what you call "internet dork music"? |
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nice one. |
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i'm trying to be gentle, there's more i could say but i think this is a good start. it just pains me to see people with good taste in music be so closeminded about other good music. |
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yes, i can see what you're doing. i'm not closeminded, just very particular. |
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1) I love David Bowie! ;D One of my favorite musicians. :) Trent Reznor is lovely, but he was hugely influenced by Bowie. And Mansons videos are a rip-off of some of Bowies videos, but I still like both of them. :) Why are you telling me this anyway--Im not the NIN freak, Spookyluke is. ;) Im the Tori freak! :D 2) I know Trent has done things with other artists (Down In It is hilariously hip hop!), and I respect that--I just dont like rap or hip hop. Its just a musical taste! 3) ChoirGirl Hotel is my favorite Tori album because of the words AND the music. "Internet Dork Music" is not supposed to be degrading--Im sorry if you thought that! Spookyluke is the biggest dork I know, and I love him. :) Im confused as to why you think Im closeminded--it would help if you would explain instead of just make a thread like this. Thanks in advance! *hoping you will explain* |
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i find it hard to dislike an entire genre. |
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So do I. |
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i've just read some very narrow minded comments from you about hip-hop, IDM, and some other music, and while i don't expect you to fall in love with it overnight, it would be nice if you gave it more of a chance (not all music needs singing) and respected it more. i mean there's so much out there (music is endless; just when you think you know all there is about it, ten new types of music pop up overnight) that it's silly and rude to put down types of music without giving it a real try. also, i used to put artists on these huge, frequently very unrealistic pedestals like you seem to (not with every artist, just some), and while it's great to be really into a certain band or musician, it's near criminal to block out other stuff, especially when the artists admired are such huge fans of bands you've already written off. for example, trent is a huge fan of this idm group called telefon tel aviv. he's also a big fan of the record label 75 ark, which releases lots of very experimental and very cool hip-hop albums from automator (under various names) and formerly anti-pop consortium. even tori has a huge range of music she's a fan of: just look at her list of cover songs. |
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Yeah, thats true. My real definition of hip hop/rap is mostly just what Ive seen on MTV--aaaaah!! 0_o' Id be willing to give anything that is not on mtv a try. :) |
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I wouldn't say anyone is closed minded for not liking rap. I don't like rap, but that doesn't make me close minded. I just don't relate to it. Lindsey got me into CGH! :D I originally was close minded to it--I didn't hear much new Tori (post BFP) because I was worried I wouldn't like it and it would ruin my perception of her forever. Much in the same way that I still haven't heard Portishead's second record in its entirety :) Also, isn't it more close minded to be hip to Eminem and such based on Trent Reznor's comments? He obviously liked 12 Rounds enough to sign them to nothing, but I can't find one ounce of merit in any of their tracks! I think it'd be unfair to like them because he does. |
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I still dont understand how this makes me narrowminded--so I dont like (what I have heard of) hip hop/rap. And so I dont like some "idm". (I do, however, love the term internet dork music!) Just because a musician I love (e.g., Tori) likes soemthing, doesnt mean that I am going to like it. The things that I tell off I have given a chance or heard plenty of, and I dont like it. |
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Not all the hip hop on MTV is bad. :P |
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hahaha ;D Well, Im not fond of it. :) |
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it's just an example luke; as i said, i am trying to go about this issue gently and not so academically. and as for hip-hop music, what i said about all music rings true for hip-hop in specific: once you think you know everything about it, along comes a whole new movement within it that changes everything you thought you knew. you'd be surprised what different people have done within the field of hip-hop music. |
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WELL THATS YOUR LOSS SO NFIAHSDIUFJSAIODFSUDOFJ ITS NOT MY PROBLEM BLARG |
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word. |
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recommend any tracks? the only thing close to it i've heard is afrikaa bombata's old stuff. it's kinda minimalist electronic, and what i liked was without vocals. i don't like the idea of sampling other musician's music (noises are fine, but recognizable sampling of basslines getso n my nerves--i.e. Ja Rule's track with strangelove in it). |
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I guess if someone doesn't like a type of music, they don't have to force themselves to like it... |
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FUNKMASTA I HAVENT TALKED TO YO IN LIKE FOEVER |
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you love hip-hop titsworth, it's obvious... but it seems like you can't accept anyone else NOT loving it... |
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you be frontin'?! |
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well what sort of hip-hop do you wanna hear? heavy electro stuff like bambaata? as far as non-sampling goes, i'd recommend a timbaland album but you wouldn't like the vocals and lyrics. even i don't. he doesn't hire the best guests, but the music is tops. also with non-sampling, el-p and anti-pop consortium are mindblowing. but again, the vocals might turn you off (especially el-p, who is very in-your-face; APC are very laid back in comparison). for instrumental hip-hoppish stuff besides the obvious dj shadow, there's req, prefuse73, and boom bip, and that's just on one label (warp). this is a great page to get introduced to some really INTERESTING hip-hop. --> |
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that reminds me, does anyone actually respect Nelly? I'm not into rap, so I don't know--but I can't imagine anyone actually liking him. He's Kidz Bop rap! That little bandaid is so funny! Who takes him seriously? |
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i just don't like unfair stereotyping and obfuscating biases. |
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Part of the reason I consider myself not a fan of rap is that I view anything remotely good like DJ Shadow as not being rap. :) Goign to the site now. |
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"I guess if someone doesn't like a type of music, they don't have to force themselves to like it..." Thank you!!!!!!!! I practically tried to force myself to like autechre and squarepusher--I was in love with Spookyluke and he listened to them all the time. I wanted to be like him and have more in common with him--I tried! I grew to like Aphex Twin, but definitely not Squarepusher. ;) Some Autechre is okay. :) |
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HES NOT TALKING ABOUT THE NELLY STANDARDS OF HIP HOP FOO! |
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Handsome Boy Modeling School is probably the only acceptable rap, I think. I wouldn't listen to it regularly, but I can admit that it's relatively enjoyable. I am forever close minded to the rap image of people with gold teeth and jewelry and huge egos riding around in limos or expensive cars with all these women and money flying all over the place sorts of things. None of that appeals to me even remotely! :) When I was little, I loved MC Hammer. :) |
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musically, i consider trent a hip-hop artist. hear me out. first, like hip-hop producers, he plays pretty much every instrument himself and then layers it together to form the track. that's not exactly rock music. secondly, he does sample. the drums on every song on the downward spiral but the "piggy" outro are sampled, mostly from iggy pop records. he samples a lot, especially on the first album. but he hasn't stopped; "metal" samples briefly the esg track "ufo" (which has been sampled in so many other songs, most notably a couple famous cypress hill songs). i mean he does it very creatively, but it's still sampling. there are LOTS of hip-hop artists who work like trent do as far as production goes. it's not all "let's sample a whole minute of this song, loop it, and sing over it". there are so many genius hip-hop producers out there. some sample, some don't. fortunately for the genre there are an equal amount of genius lyricists out there. but because their lyrics go over the heads of the mtv and radio audiences, you can't expect to hear them without seeking them out. |
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yo tits i need some help in the el-p topic. |
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luke do you realize that none of the rappers on the handsome boy modeling school album have gold teeth or sport jewelry? that's an mtv stereotype. you have to get past media brainwashing. there're tons of non-materialistic, intelligent emcees ("rappers"), you just have to keep your eyes and ears open to learn about them. |
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again WORD |
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opto i don't know that he did sample anyone on that track; a friend of mine thinks he heard the same sample in four tet's "3.3 degrees from the pole" but it's very brief and may just be a coincidence. el-p might not sample at all; most of his music is made with an organ synth. |
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i was never into hip hop before, but i'm slowly getting into it now. i've really been impressed with some of the stuff titsworth has played on his radio show. i've realized that great music can be found anywhere, and i enjoy music so much more now that i've given other genres a chance. |
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ONE last thing to say... One track on the Boom Bip&DoseOne album has the same little tune that is at the beginning of a Bola song (from Soup, i dont remember the title of the track thoou) looped and edited and stuff. all through the track. oh my goshywoshy it offended me |
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oh yea the boom bip and doseone track is viewfinder |
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Sure--there's definitely tons of sampling with nine inch nails. That's not a problem. It's if trent thinks, "I'll just take the bass of Strangelove, mix it with some funky drummer, throw in some record scratches, and then rhyme things." That's when it's a problem. No harm whatsoever in using other sounds, it's combinations. It's a delicate subject--if you're going to sample something, like a single drum hit, that's fine. If you sample a loop, I say cut it up and process it. if you're samplng an entire bassline, then you should mask it beyond recognizability. Front Line Assembly samples Start as You Mean to Go On and other Aphex Tracks--but it's kept to just a noise or an effect and it's merged in well with the other stuff. I don't have objections to that. :) Yup--Dan The Automator is fine in my book. Deltron 3030 has listenable stuff, as well as Kid Koala, which I forgot about earlier. but a few capable musicians here and there doesn't change my feelings that the most prominent of its musicians are very insincere and generic. :| |
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1. that "a warm place" is a huge ripoff of a song from 1980? you might want to give a listen to david bowie's "crystal japan" (a scary monsters era b-side). I just d/led this track... man, how can Trent sleep at night? The main melody is almost note for note identical. Same vibe too. |
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yea, the story is he heard "crystal japan" AFTER the album came out for the first time in years and felt really bad about it. he wouldn't have done it consciously for two reasons: one, he's a huge bowie fan and that would be totally disrespectful. two, he knew his album would be heard by a lot of people so it's not like he could get away with it (though he more or less has since it's such an obscure b-side). i believe trent when he says that he made a song that felt really familiar to him but didn't figure it out till after the album came out. he and bowie toured together the next year, and have been friends ever since, so i'm sure bowie's ok with it. but the point i meant to make was that all our heroes--trent, tori, RDJ, autechre, etc.--have their faults. |
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Still it's amazing how the human mind can retain such a perfect memory of a song and yet it becomes detached from the knowledge of its origin and filters through into a new piece. That used to happen to me a lot when I was writing poetry - I'd get ready to read a piece at a poetry night and I'd get the sudden panicked feeling that half of it was cribbed from some Charles Bukowski I'd read in a drunken haze. |
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wild cave monster man that thing is scary shit |
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imagine if you made a track exactly like someone else did somewhere else.... then you'd hear each others tracks. would the person be just like you? this though spooks me. |
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Or you'd be the Orb and everybody else who makes such crap. ;) |
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huh?? i dont think you understood my point really... i meant EXACTLY the same sounds, beats, melodies, not just ripoffers |
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I think all the Orb's tracks and all that generic trance stuff sounds all exactly alike. ;) |
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hmph. you are making fun of my scary thought. |
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Neetta the only way you can avoid making music exactly like your scary twin is to not make music at all. Unless... what if the scary twin also decides not to make music...? |
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omg im getting confused... |
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but the thing infact is im not scared of someone making the exact same thing, im just scared of what kind of person would heshe be. |
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You know what's really scary is all the people out there doing paintings exactly like Bob Ross. They're like his unholy art army of the night. "And maybe a couple of happy little fangs live RIGHT HERE!" :: bites victim :: |
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