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hevquip from an egren's coffee shop on 2001-08-10 22:02 [#00020955] | |||||||||
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anyone want to argue about god? |
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VChilele on 2001-08-10 22:02 [#00020956] | |||||||||
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there is a god,but definately not the christian one...dont feel like having a huge debate |
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hevquip from an egren's coffee shop on 2001-08-10 22:14 [#00020957] | |||||||||
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not a christian god? as in the concept? i personally don't believe in god. i have my reasons, one of them being free will. |
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hevquip from an egren's coffee shop on 2001-08-10 22:18 [#00020958] | |||||||||
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maybe people shouldn't respond. i hate this topic already. |
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Id Lab from The Untitled Kingdom on 2001-08-10 22:32 [#00020959] | |||||||||
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No good, you've started one now... or of course you could say it was fated to happen... but as for free will, I think God arises from our actions and beliefs, rather than the other way round. I dig that quantum theory too, the whole 'everything happens, we just only observe one possible outcome' multiple-worlds theory. Are these two beliefs compatible? Who cares, this is theology. |
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=|R3FL3X|= from Edmonton, Alberta, Canada on 2001-08-10 23:05 [#00020962] | |||||||||
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In my opinion there are only 2 ways to go on this: 1. You don't believe in ANYTHING, ie: god, life after death. 2. You believe in something, people who argue about what god is the right god have it all wrong, as long as you believe in something, then its fine. Divine Intervention..... something. You can fit me into catagory # 2. |
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m....M..Mw )wW(m M m)Ww( wM..M....m on 2001-08-10 23:10 [#00020964] | |||||||||
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Suppose we were to pan outward and outward from the earth to find that we are but a single molecule composing something unimportant, like a piece of worn rubber of some humongous alien's shoe. That would make the most sense, because from what I read, fractals are how nature composes itself. |
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=|R3FL3X|= from Edmonton, Alberta, Canada on 2001-08-10 23:16 [#00020965] | |||||||||
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mmmmmmwhatevermmmm: yes you are getting to something. That makes a ton of sense. We once argued this with some science men at my school.. when I was still in school. The molecule is EXACTLY what our system of planets surrounding the sun is. Since there are not these things EVERYWHERE... it would make sense to think that our system, our EARTH... is part of something MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH .... MUCH bigger. This is a bit off topic. But who knows... |
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hevquip from an egren's coffee shop on 2001-08-10 23:33 [#00020969] | |||||||||
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i think god is a concept to make us feel important. we cant justify our existence or significance, so we leave it up to another entity as to why we are here. i believe free will would not exist with a god. with free will, we determine our actions, and from that, we determine our responsibilities and consequences. therefore, we have the power to judge ourselves and hold ourselves accountable for what we do, that does a good enough job as taking over what gods purpose is. although, if you were to argue against my point, one would speak of how the results of our actions have been pre-determined and we create the path to get to those results. i dont believe in god because i am not weak. i am accountable. |
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hevquip from an egren's coffee shop on 2001-08-10 23:38 [#00020970] | |||||||||
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i think the earth is something that happened to have the proper conditions to bear life. it came into the right distance from the sun, it harbored the right materials, it had the proper conditions. from that we "happened". our planet is a little ball of rock floating around in a very large sea of nothing, broken up occassionally by other balls of rock and very hot gases. |
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sepix from european realm on 2001-08-10 23:54 [#00020973] | |||||||||
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believe in yourself stupid chipmonks |
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CUN8eR LASIT from LASiT on 2001-08-11 00:54 [#00020985] | |||||||||
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Apparently "religiousness" has been associated with certain features of the temporal lobe -> which if one were to abstract a little, could point to a totally deterministic existence, which makes the question even more trivial ... Re: freedom - its irrelevant isn't it? I mean - i didn't read all of that Quantum stuff - but sort of along the same lines - If I were to make a choice about something, I could argue that I am free to choose what I like - but the fact remains that I only choose one thing and can only choose one thing. So, essentially there is no way to prove ho w determined our behaviour is. - Back to God. It is irrelevant with reference to truth > because it is something we just can not access. Personally I do not believe in God - but it is more like a leap of faith (either way). There is no way to prove or disprove the existence of God, so it is a purely subjective point of view -> |
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Zarathustra on 2001-08-11 07:51 [#00021015] | |||||||||
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well said sepix !!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Travis Bickle on 2001-08-11 10:39 [#00021023] | |||||||||
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[There Is No Need To Read This Post; It offers nothing..] JESUS THE PEDOPHILE KING In January 2001 a controversial new play, Corpus Christi, staged in Melbourne depicted Jesus Christ kissing Judas and hugging a male prostitute. This raised questions regarding whether Jesus Christ himself was gay ... ----------------------------------------------------------- ------------- Worse, some people claim Jesus was not only gay but a pedophile in that children were brought to him so "he should touch them." (Mark 10:13) Nowhere do the gospel writers report where Jesus "touched" the children - on the forehead, on the crown, on the genitals ... Perhaps that is why the gospels omit where the children were touched ... Yet the gospels report quite clearly where Mary Magdalene touched Jesus when he was anointed. Luke 7:37-38 and John 12:3 claim Jesus was anointed on the feet, yet Matthew 26:7 and Mark 14:3 report he was anointed on the head. Why should the gospels report where Mary touched Jesus yet neglect to report where Jesus touched the kids ..? This may explain why the gospels report that children were made to "suffer" to go to Jesus. (Luke 18:15) What exactly does this mean? A clue may be found in the passage describing how locals chased Jesus in an attempt to throw him off a hill. (Luke 4:29) Who were these locals and why were they angry? Were they the parents of the children whom Jesus "touched" ..? ----------------------------------------------------------- ------------- Bear in mind that many locals including church officials believed Jesus and his apostles performed the Devil's work. Matthew 12:24 and Mark 3:22 says the Pharisees accused Jesus of casting out spirits "by Beelzebub the prince of the devils." It was alleged in Luke 11:15 that Jesus cast out demons "through the chief of the devils," while John 7:20 claims Jesus was accused of "having a devil." Jesus preached hate for in Luke 14:26 he says, "If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and even his own life also, he cannot be my disciple." Jesus also preached war for he says in Matthew 10:34, "I came not to send peace, but a sword," while in Luke 12:49 he says, "I am come to send fire on the earth." Most damning of all is John's claim in Revelation 22:16 that Jesus called himself "the bright and morning star" - a name traditionally reserved for Lucifer or Satan ... ----------------------------------------------------------- ------------- If Jesus really was the head of a pedophile ring consisting of his twelve apostles then Judas should be thanked for betraying him. Instead of condemned ... One could assume that, after being threatened by the locals, Jesus went into hiding from fear of being lynched. Frustrated, the angry parents reported the matter to the authorities, who immediately launched an inquiry. No doubt the Pharisees, good King Herod and Pontius Pilate - perhaps the real heroes of the gospels - were eager to prevent civil unrest by bringing the ringleader in for questioning. But Jesus evidently resisted arrest and hindered investigations by going into hiding. This made matters worse for Jesus, since the authorities only become more suspicious and the locals more angry that an agent of Beelzebub was permitted to roam free in their midst. Earlier, authorities received reports Jesus may have been gay since those who saw him said he spent most of his time in the company of twelve men in long white dresses proclaiming: "It is more blessed to give than to receive." (Acts 20:35) However, Luke 4:8 suggests Jesus liked to "receive" every now and then since he told Peter to "get thee in my behind, Satan." Or something like that ... ----------------------------------------------------------- ------------- But back to our story ... It appears from the gospels that Judas, or Saint Judas according to Arnoume, was the only member of Jesus' pedophile ring who had a conscience. Given Jesus' reputation thus far, it could be argued Judas did the right thing in betraying Jesus to the authorities. But it appears Caiaphas, Annas and Pilate were too lenient on the group - either that, or the apostles were too slippery. Look how Peter denied Jesus three times and slithered off into the shadows in order to avoid arrest. (Matthew 26:69-75) In Matthew 10:33, Jesus says quite clearly that "whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven." Does this mean Peter is not in Heaven minding the Pearly Gates as tradition suggests - or is Peter's denial yet another biblical contradiction ..? Nevertheless, the ringleader was crucified - much to the joy of the kids and the relief of the parents - and Pilate washed his hands of the sordid affair. Christianity became history's first religion whose followers worship a lawfully-convicted felon. And, like any criminal organisation, its followers have been proclaiming its leader's innocence - or that Jesus was framed - ever since ... ----------------------------------------------------------- ------------- THIS IS JESUS KING OF THE PEDOPHILES - Sign over Jesus' head on the cross according to Arnoume (not Matthew 27:37 which contradicts the three other gospel reports anyway) ----------------------------------------------------------- ------------- As for Jesus' disciples, it may be said that too many of them escaped: the mad womanhater St Paul, the Satanic St Peter and the other "fishers of men." (Matthew 4:19; Mark 1:17) Read: "fishers of boys." They laid low, slithering off to Greece, Rome and Asia Minor, where the Romans wisely threw a few disciples to lions to show them what it was like to be pawed by animals. Through centuries of sucking off kings and sodomising entire countries, the church grew to became the world's greatest, most highly organised pedophile ring. Today, the main branch of this wolfish religion dressed in sheep's clothing is headed by a man dressed in a white condom. Complete with spermicidal cap. How ironic that the pope, whom author JG Eccarius describes as an altar boy's wet dream, preaches against contraceptives when he dresses like one! ----------------------------------------------------------- ------------- So this is the great harlot as she stands today. An indolent, fat parasite feeding on the fears and goodness of decent, hardworking people everywhere. Especially the innocent children. In Australia, Victorian Catholic priest Father Gerald Ridsdale - a bloated buggerer called "Fozzy Bear" by the kids he molested - was described as the country's most notorious pedophile. More pedophile priests and criminal clergy are listed at the Australian Church Offenders Register. The perverted behaviour of Christian priests may explain why the church historically loves setting up schools. After all, it could be said that Christian schools are little more than battery cages for defenceless kiddies. Priests simply go from class to class saying, "I'll have one of those ... one of those - and that shy little blond-haired boy in the corner ..." That's basically what Father Ridsdale did, which is why priests like to have their presbyteries next to schools ... So their bedrooms are close to the classrooms ... |
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Wizards Teeth from Parsnip Land on 2001-08-11 10:44 [#00021025] | |||||||||
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I read that many priests "touch kids". The dirty little buggers. Why do we have to kneel at the foot of vicars ? To allow us to suck thier manhoods ? I don't know it is just a guess. |
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boxrocket on 2001-08-11 11:13 [#00021029] | |||||||||
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travis--the subject was about god. |
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Bob Saget on 2001-08-11 11:42 [#00021030] | |||||||||
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Oh no! he swayed off the topic. Suicide is his only option now, good job reporting the problem, boxrocket. |
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zetre on 2001-08-11 14:43 [#00021047] | |||||||||
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Let´s leave god to the americans.. |
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Organ Grinder from my own little fantasy world on 2001-08-11 16:03 [#00021059] | |||||||||
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God has to be a male. If it was a female, shit wouldn't be so fucked up.... a mother getting her child taken from her is part of God's divine plan? Gimme a fucking break. Oh and by the way, Jesus was AN ARABIAN JEW. And he's the symbol of Christianity, yet christians hate jews. Go figure. Religion can be foolish, but it gives some people hope though... not me. |
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remineinlite on 2001-08-11 16:15 [#00021063] | |||||||||
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Surely God doesn't have a gender? He (and I use that pronoun only for the sake of convention) doesn't reproduce. |
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God on 2001-08-11 16:15 [#00021064] | |||||||||
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I'm a Christian and we DO NOT hate anyone* *excludes homo-sexuals, muslims, satanists, regular people, atheists, |
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God's Child from a road verging Heaven on 2001-08-11 16:18 [#00021066] | |||||||||
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I'm a Christian and we DO NOT hate anyone* *excludes homo-sexuals, muslims, satanists, regular people, atheists, lesbians, those with mental disabilities, asians, musicians that aren't associated with DC Talk,.. et al |
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God on 2001-08-11 16:20 [#00021070] | |||||||||
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...and, of course, any non-whites. |
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Organ Grinder from my own little fantasy world on 2001-08-11 16:24 [#00021073] | |||||||||
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ha. |
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VChilele on 2001-08-11 17:24 [#00021082] | |||||||||
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i think people are forgetting that A god could be anything...the christian god is the only one you all are focusing on...i just believe that there is a supreme entity...why is everything fucked up? it watches us for amusment...simple as that. |
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Mr Stupid Comments on 2001-08-11 17:30 [#00021085] | |||||||||
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VChilele has a small penis; he's God, that's enough for me to worship, i'll see you at the next meeting.... |
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Vcheilie on 2001-08-11 18:34 [#00021097] | |||||||||
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im god? well,i wasnt aware of that...but okay...my small penis shall rule you all! |
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thanksomuch from over there on 2001-08-11 22:54 [#00021131] | |||||||||
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i personally am agnostic. i hope that doesn't light a fire under any one's panties. |
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Xanatos from NYC on 2001-08-12 01:41 [#00021149] | |||||||||
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God is not an outside observer with a long beard who created earth and looks down on us saying "very interesting" or "he shouldn't be doing that, I'll have to punish him." The Universe/We are a projection of god, rather than a creation of his/hers/its. Look around you, that's god. God created the universe/humanity to experience limitation. |
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thanksomuch from over there on 2001-08-12 02:23 [#00021174] | |||||||||
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X, reflex, and hevquip never cease to amaze me....... i'm tired. |
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Bogus on 2001-08-12 06:04 [#00021226] | |||||||||
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think about a universe without 'us' by 'us' I mean humans, life, intelligence... to sum it up beings with conciense (sp?), the universe has no sense at all if there's no one to watch it... that why I believe in the possibility of a being that's behind all this. Call it god if you want. But this ain't about religion. Science isn't opossed to the idea of god. i'm atheist in the sense that I don't believe in any religion, but I'm agnostic in the sense that i'm not sure wether I think or not there's a 'god'. But it's existance has been, is, and will be irrelevant unless we actually find that being and explit that knowledge. |
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CUN8eR LASIT from LASiT on 2001-08-12 06:22 [#00021230] | |||||||||
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The problem really is that our self consiousness undermines knowledge itself ... which is a bit of a bummer if one wants to solve the riddle of the universe and the question of whether a god exists or not and all that .. |
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ross on 2001-08-12 06:40 [#00021234] | |||||||||
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i just wanted to say, though i hope i dont get flamed for this..i dont really believe much in stuff at church, but i was raised in a christian home since i was born, and it kinda irritates me to see such negativity sometimes towards christianity and God..i mean i can understand to a point, but if you're going to make an opinion on something, maybe you should actually go to church and see how it is then..sure christians can be insane and against everything, but that's them and they're stupid..The church has always been left in man's hands, and man is corrupt, which doesnt really work out.. |
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ross on 2001-08-12 06:42 [#00021235] | |||||||||
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ps. christians hate jews because they were said to of crucified God, while i dont place any blame on Jews..some stupid christians do |
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=|R3FL3X|= from Edmonton, Alberta, Canada on 2001-08-12 07:34 [#00021243] | |||||||||
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he said, she said... thats exactly what it is. someones a christian..? they can hate blacks, {for you politicly correct folks *suckers*... african americans not blacks}. some can have no problems, or prefiduce towards any race or anything such as that. ... . God is god. Simple as that. Its how you precieve the idea. |
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CUN8eR LASIT from LASiT on 2001-08-12 10:19 [#00021277] | |||||||||
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Re: Ross's Christian sensibility No offence intended .. but this apparent pessimism some people seem to display could also be seen as a form of realism .. a kind of mirror image of how we (pessimists) perceive the world .. the christian tradition - although I grant that I'm categorizing .. but in general offers a more positive image by creating an other worldly reality (ie heaven and hell .. the realm of angels and all that) such that people divert attention from the world we are actually living in .. so I'm not saying its bad or anything ... just that the pessimism might not be so much a direct attitude as a indirect response of this earthly perspective. I'm not saying one is better than the other .. but .. um ... mmhh |
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zetre on 2001-08-12 14:31 [#00021291] | |||||||||
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God is just a way for stupid people to explain the things they don´t understand/ can´t grasp. I can´t see how religion can continue be a part of a enlightened western society. To me it´s amazing that anyone would believe in god, when it´s so obvious that he´s just something man has created to explain the unexplainable. Now, that we have answers to a lot of those questions, you´d think that god would be played out, but that´s clearly and unfortunately not the case.. |
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João Evangelista from Portugal on 2001-08-12 17:55 [#00021306] | |||||||||
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Totally pointless |
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hevquip from a nefarious pirate ship on 2001-08-12 22:16 [#00021336] | |||||||||
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i think the god concept comes from mans unwillingness to know himself. rather than see what he his and sculpt himself, he makes himself to be what he has been told to be. |
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Xanatos from NYC on 2001-08-12 22:20 [#00021338] | |||||||||
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1. I'd like to hear more people talk about what they believe in spiritually, less about organized religion etc. 2. Zetre I would just like to point out, although I am not part of any organized religion, that flaws in what you are saying. "God is just a way for stupid people to explain the things they don´t understand/ can´t grasp." Stupid people like Stephen Hawkings? or Albert Einstein? Who realize that we don't have answers to and of the REAL questions. Every scientist (not just them) admits that as we find out more and more the there are MORE unanswered questions than before "...it´s so obvious that he´s just something man has created to explain the unexplainable." That might be true, but it explains it a lot better than devout athiesm. How do you explain it? The universe exploded out of nothing and rocks turned to meat and started questioning it? Do scientists really have anything better than that? "Now, that we have answers to a lot of those questions..." Which ones would those be? We know that the universe is expanding from one central point, but we don't know how or why. We know that there is some kind of invisible force which keeps the planets in alignment and rotation but we don't have a fucking clue how it works! My point here is, agnosticism makes a lot of sense to me, although I am spiritual (note I don't say religious because then someone might ask me which one) myself, I can see how you have "yet to see" whether there is any kind of spiritual entity or not. But to be a devout athiest and say "There is no God. I know it." THAT'S A RELIGION! You are making a statement based on what you FEEL to be true. Kind of like how many religious people say "I just know god exists" It's probably because they FEEL that god exists. They are just making that statement because its what they believe, because they have faith in something they can't prove. That's just like you zetre, you have absolute faith in something you can't prove. Is there really any difference? |
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ross on 2001-08-12 23:17 [#00021348] | |||||||||
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cun8er, no offence taken, good explanation there..i'm very pessimistic too (as well as optimistic, but everyone can be like both at times) and church does have a positive atmosphere for a lot of people, but i think there are negative sides as well, the new church i go to has a puppet show where it seems like a brainwash to kids..people laugh, but it sometimes makes me want to vomit my lungs out |
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ross on 2001-08-12 23:20 [#00021349] | |||||||||
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xanatos, good good points man..God works for some people and doesn't for others, it's entirely subjective..whatever side your on, you have that choice, so go with it.. |
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CUN8eR LASIT from LASiT on 2001-08-13 03:18 [#00021386] | |||||||||
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Re: Ross Yeah .. the brainwashing is a bit of a worry .. mind you - Science also has very much the potential for this also. A totally scientific, calculated and causal world would be a very cold one [although for arguments sake, true] - eg. viewing emotion as just a chemical state in ones mind -> then prescribing drugs to prevent people staying in a unpleasant emotional states or so ... although - emotion is a chemical state -> this apparent truth science offers may be deceptively appealing -> and thus could result in a society that prides itself in its achievements in knowledge and truth and all that ... but at the same time suffering from, I guess a "spiritual crisis" - and a loss of meaning ... Perhaps ignorance in this case is the virtue? |
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CUN8eR LASIT from LASiT on 2001-08-13 03:25 [#00021388] | |||||||||
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Re: Xanatos Yes, Atheism in your sense is a religion. But mind you Agnosticism is also ... because, it is after all the way YOU feel ! Is this not so ? I guess, one has to accept this plunge into dogmaticism -> take a [non-religious connotatory] "leap of faith" and just believe what one believes .. because, if one were to sit on the fence and wait for the 'scientific evidence' of the existence of god or not - one would be waiting for an awfully long time. Although, somewhat self-undermining, believing what one feels - yet still accepting that other people will believe other stuff would be quite a good alternative/solution. The only problem is, that it is difficult to believe something and at the same time accept (and in this way also believing) other beliefs .. etc. |
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ross on 2001-08-13 04:46 [#00021391] | |||||||||
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cun8er, do you mean ignorance towards christianity is a virtue? i'm slightly confused..the thing that bothers me about christianity is so many people that are believers won't question the teachings, when there's plenty of things to question..like this guy i knew who is a solid christian now used to do crazy dark paintings, and he had to decide whether that was a positive influence..can you be completely seculiar between God and say, the dark work you produce..basically, if there's something you enjoy which slightly sits outside the picture of christianity and what God would want, can you balance both? |
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ross on 2001-08-13 04:48 [#00021393] | |||||||||
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* im not saying i question this exact question, cuz i honestly would place higher value on doing the art.. |
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Beef Fog from io on 2001-08-13 06:02 [#00021404] | |||||||||
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I don't think saying Agnosticism is a religion really works, because what it is that you feel is not anything specific... |
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Bogus on 2001-08-13 06:57 [#00021411] | |||||||||
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religions are stupid (in my opinion) the concept of god is not. religion came form the concept of god... not otherwise. the concept of god is not oposed to science, in fact I think science reinforces the idea of god because it reveals order behind things... and even according to science intelligence is needed to create information, order has more information than disorder. and what about the consciousness... it existing actually justifies the existance of the universe because the universe wouldn't exist if there were no being able to be aware of it. |
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CUN8eR LASIT from LASiT on 2001-08-13 08:18 [#00021434] | |||||||||
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Re: Bogus consciousness What you are saying is the tree in the woods didn't make a noise [with no one around to hear ofcourse] - Although one can not refute such a claim, it is somewhat counter intuitive. Because extrapolating this idea that consciousness needs to exists in order for the universe to exist one is faced with a peculiar problem. What if there is a room totally void of consciousness - ie. no one can see it (not even animals - just to save complications) then surely what you are saying is that, in this instance the room doesn't ACTUALLY exist ... it only exists when someone walks up to the room and opens the door and enters the room - and is conscious of it. This would mean that things pop in and out of existence, and this seems to me, be complicating matters a little. Although, as said earlier, it can not be refuted. Do you think an AI computer is conscious? The first part of your msg. God is not a stupid concept .. other wise it wouldn't be so popular would it? But the thing to remember is, there is no evidence for, or against. It is all a matter of faith either way - and so in a way a feeling. No, Agnosticism isn't really a Religion, but Atheism (which was the original claim I was replying to) in that sense isn't either. Religion, to me anyway, implies a somewhat organised and structured belief system. |
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CUN8eR LASIT from LASiT on 2001-08-13 08:33 [#00021438] | |||||||||
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Re: Ross um.. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by the balancing thing. No, I don't mean ignorance towards Christianity. Well. Not specifically.. perhaps an analogy would help. Consider a pole of 'truth and knowledge' (maybe just truth) - as it is, the pole is sticking out of the ground a considerable bit, and consequently is quite wobbly. So, the obvious thing to do is to hit the pole a little further into the ground, this way "truth" isn't so wobbly. However, the pole will always be wobbly to a certain degree .. and so if one goes and hits the pole further and further into the ground, the truth will gradually become more resilient, but becomes less and less specific -> if you carry this on for a bit, you get to a point where there is nothing to hold on to anymore, this (according to my analogy) would be the absolute truth, but because there is nothing to hold on to - one is lost in a sea of subjectivism/relativism where one can say nothing. This state is a little frustrating, and essentially undermines itself, so my reference with ignorance was: maybe it is better to not have smashed the pole into the ground in the first place - ie staying ignorant. Wasn't directed at Christianity specifically. So, the whole thing about people taking the gospel or whatever it may be without questioning ... may without them knowing, be the best alternative. Because, although you can see the naivety in it (and possibly the danger) - it does make life a lot easier, because there are no questions to ask. ? |
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