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I read in a post (and read in interviews although i still didnt understand it) that Ae do generative music and put algorythms in the computer and then the computer makes whatever right? like how does that work then? how does an algorythm become music? |
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Well, the simple example is the bouncing ball effect, used by RDJ on Bucephallus Bouncing Ball and by AE on, i think Drane 2. You take an algorythm that mathematically describes the behaviour of an object hitting the surface under the law of gravity. You can change parameters: the density of the object/ surface, the height from which it is dropped, the strength of the gravitational field etc. Of course, there are a lot more complicated formulas: fractal stuff etc., where you are not really able to predict the results. But there are some other, really simple ways of creating generative music, but I'm sure Meho will tell you more about it. |
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Thanks...i see what you mean, kinda hehe Meho, where are you? |
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So what about a track like VI Scose Poise? was that all done with fractals or algorhythms? there's so much going on.. |
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Indeed I will. For instance: Christian Marclay released a "Record without a cover": a piece of 12 inch vinyl that is supposed to lay unprotected and therefore generate new sounds on the surface to add to the noise already existing on the record. Each copy becomes different with time. I read a great article by David Toop in THE WIRE about 15-16 months ago, and most of my examples are from that article. (Including AE): One good and simple example is a Cornelius Cardew composition of a name I can not remember: He just took a number of people with untrained voices and gave some of them to sing a single note with furhter instruction to others to try and sing the note they hear from the person closest to them. As these people were untrained, many of them could nott sustain a single note for a longer time and changed it unconsciously and others could not repeat it perfectly or did not hear properly, so a lot of completely unexpected harmonies and events surfaced. Or so they say... In principle, you can take a lot of numerical analysis formulas, hook your synth to the computer doing the calculation and get a complex set of sounds out of it, depending on parameters you punch in. |
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Beats me. Some things you think are aleatory and it turns out they have been carefully composed. Some things you think they really put an effort to make and it turns out that it was just created by an algorythm... |
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wow that is so interesting. thats almost as insane as john cage! can you still buy this stuff? like that record that changes and those people singing? |
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You are talking about parabolic beats. That kind of sound can be captured through generative composition or manual composition. Amonbrune, this is kind of an oversimplification of it all, but generative musicians tend to have programs that can take mathematical equations, images, letters & numbers, algorhythms, etc and process them into audable signals. Then the composer arranges the parts that they like. Most generative composers will also process their sounds again and again untill the songs have baisically been set down in the middle of a highway of generative software (during rush hour). Usually the music ends up sounding like Autechre's 'Confield', Richard Devine's 'Lipswitch', or Leafcutter John's 'Microcontact'. |
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well, in essence, John Cage is a father of all this. He used I-Ching to compose, really relied a lot on aleatory techniques. His aim was to "liberate sounds and music from the composer's tyranny"... |
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lol i got so many questions all of a sudden! i know what a polyrhythm is...what's a parabolic? |
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A barabolic beat is baisically a rhythm structure that opperates on a curve. For example, where normal rythms might have a 0.5 second gap inbetween beats, in a parabolic beat, the first gap between beats might be 0.6 seconds, then the next would be 0.55, then 0.51, then 0.48, then 0.46 and so on, untill it hits a middle point, say 0.42 seconds and then works its way back to 0.6, like in an algebraic curve. Thats the best way I could describe it right now. Listen to Krib on Cichle Suite and you will see what I mean. |
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I am just going to add that parabolic beats are a bitch to work with unless you have something to make proper generative music with. Doing painstaking work with the shift function in fruityloops is a lot more work than it is worth. Believe. |
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I have that cd...i'll give it a listen. thanks kindly! this is all super facinating stuff. |
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i once was into producing sounds on my pc, using pascal and c. mixing too many things up (i.e. a complex arrangement of loops and goto's) makes it all sound like merzbow. doing listenable stuff that way is almost impossible. at least it was for me |
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so could you in essence keep that in mind and like develop a different time signature every min or so...a beat that keeps on going but mutates. |
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Then if it's so hard how some Autechre can do it!!!!!!!!! ARGG!! Ooops... i forgot they're super human. |
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some = come* |
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depends on what you deem listenable. I listen to a lot of merzbow. |
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like what i mean is go from 4/4 into like 6/8 then like 5/7 then 14/12. thats far fetched but could you? |
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amonbrune: remember that track on ANTI that uses "non-repetitive" beats? It has been done before, naturally. |
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well, you did. i only produced super gay crap similar to alarm signals or complete noise |
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i also listen to merzbow, i like woodpecker 2 a lot. live he's fantastic. |
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Meho: I see. Ive heard Flutter...it was very interesting |
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cheffe: you just have to try harder. People do it all the time. |
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There. But there are also many other way of doing generative music. Some of them are pure artistic dead ends: aside from being some kinds of statement they sound like shit altogether. Others are great. It just breaks down to do you value experiment more than the outcome. |
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very interesting |
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maybe you are right, meho, but i'm into so many things, i won't have the time that this subject needs. btw 'people' mostly are better musicians than i am ;) |
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Autechre....ARE AMAZINE! ING..... CHECK DAT OUT BRUTHA |
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AE talk a bit about Generative music in the recent interview in Grooves...it's on the site...in the interviews section... might fill you in a bit... |
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cheffe: I hear that. Yeah. It needs a lot of fucking effort invested. But anyway, you don't have to make complicated music to make good music. SAW is as simple as taking crap but is still excellent... |
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cheers, jand!! |
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If you are talking about a constantly changing time sygnature (different from parabolic beats altho many artists have been known to use both in a track), check out Venetian Snares. Aaron funk is known for his schitzophrenic time structures. |
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i don't think the bouncing effect in bucephalus is an algorythm, i understand but i think it simply made with an echo/delay effect on the sample. |
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well, think again: the "equation" track name on windowlicker is the bouncing ball algorythm. I can't say 100% sure he'd used it in "BBB" but I'm pretty sure. |
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