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Israel-Palestine Debate: Finkelstein, Destiny, M. Rabbani & Benny Morris | Lex Fridman Podcast #418
 

offline big from lsg on 2024-03-16 22:50 [#02633568]
Points: 23210 Status: Addict | Show recordbag



LAZY_TITLE

/r/chomsky thread: LAZY_TITLE

/r/stupidpol thread: LAZY_TITLE

i haven't watched this yet, but i understand there's a lot
of knowledge here, with three scholars (and not from the
monkey twitch streamer), that are all over the spectrum,
including a bonafide zionist


 

offline big from lsg on 2024-03-16 23:00 [#02633569]
Points: 23210 Status: Addict | Show recordbag



stupidpol sure likes to call destiny 'cuck', i'm sure in
some double irony way (i don't stupidpol, but the takes i
read were decent)


 

offline Tony Danza from Sesame Street on 2024-03-17 18:31 [#02633583]
Points: 3455 Status: Regular



no


 

offline big from lsg on 2024-03-17 20:17 [#02633587]
Points: 23210 Status: Addict | Followup to Tony Danza: #02633583 | Show recordbag



it's about the other guys! (also finkelstein rips the
streamer several new ones)


 

offline belb from mmmmmmhhhhzzzz!!! on 2024-03-17 20:58 [#02633589]
Points: 6256 Status: Lurker



isn't daniel finkelstein supposed to be umbro's candidate
for the messiah?


 

offline Roger Wilco from Mo's Beans on 2024-03-17 22:32 [#02633592]
Points: 1759 Status: Lurker



Oh dear god, can you imagine?


 

offline mermaidman on 2024-03-18 09:21 [#02633598]
Points: 8028 Status: Regular



this is norman finkelstein though, does he share messiah
blood?


 

offline Tony Danza from Sesame Street on 2024-03-18 12:15 [#02633599]
Points: 3455 Status: Regular



We have established that Norman Finkelstein is not
the Messiah.

Finally, the XLT led peace process is making some headway.


 

offline RussellDust on 2024-03-18 15:26 [#02633600]
Points: 15924 Status: Regular | Followup to Tony Danza: #02633599



He’s not the messiah, he’s a very naughty boy!


 

offline mermaidman on 2024-03-18 15:28 [#02633602]
Points: 8028 Status: Regular | Followup to RussellDust: #02633600



who? daniel or norman?


 

offline dariusgriffin from cool on 2024-03-18 15:44 [#02633603]
Points: 12163 Status: Regular



norman finkelstein is a piece of shit cosying up to
holocaust deniers and isn't lex fridman some kind of elon
musk stooge or something
why would you watch this


 

offline Tony Danza from Sesame Street on 2024-03-18 23:50 [#02633627]
Points: 3455 Status: Regular



r/TrueOffMyChest/


 

offline RussellDust on 2024-03-19 12:50 [#02633638]
Points: 15924 Status: Regular | Followup to mermaidman: #02633602



Brian. But yeah Umbro was talking about Daniel.


 

offline RussellDust on 2024-03-19 12:50 [#02633639]
Points: 15924 Status: Regular | Followup to mermaidman: #02633602



Brian. But yeah Umbro was talking about Daniel.


 

offline RussellDust on 2024-03-19 12:51 [#02633641]
Points: 15924 Status: Regular



Damn hospital wifi!


 

offline RussellDust on 2024-03-19 12:51 [#02633642]
Points: 15924 Status: Regular



Damn hospital wifi!


 

offline big from lsg on 2024-03-19 12:56 [#02633643]
Points: 23210 Status: Addict | Followup to dariusgriffin: #02633603 | Show recordbag



maybe for the other two guys, thought one is a zionist

i still haven't managed to watch

the finkelstein guy is controversial, don't know about these
specific accusations

yeah, the host isn't great either


 

offline Tony Danza from Sesame Street on 2024-03-19 13:37 [#02633648]
Points: 3455 Status: Regular



Best post in this thread wins a coupon for a free...

[squints at coupon] ...bacon pizza?!


 

offline Roger Wilco from Mo's Beans on 2024-03-19 13:37 [#02633649]
Points: 1759 Status: Lurker



I love the whole "I hate the Jews and support thieir
persecution but I'm not a Nazi" movement.


 

offline Tony Danza from Sesame Street on 2024-03-19 13:39 [#02633650]
Points: 3455 Status: Regular



it is very simple

p.s. bacon pizza in the joke because it highlights
Muslim-Jewish brotherhood in abstaining from the swine


 

offline Roger Wilco from Mo's Beans on 2024-03-19 18:31 [#02633670]
Points: 1759 Status: Lurker | Followup to Tony Danza: #02633650



More bacon for me then. Though I did only recently find out
you're not meant to eat blood. And I like Black
Pudding.


 

offline Roger Wilco from Mo's Beans on 2024-03-19 18:32 [#02633671]
Points: 1759 Status: Lurker | Followup to Tony Danza: #02633650



Many countries have gone to war for far fucking less than
being existentially threatened. Anyone wetting themselves
about that? No?


 

offline big from lsg on 2024-03-19 20:56 [#02633683]
Points: 23210 Status: Addict | Show recordbag





Finkelstein doesn't seem too bad to me. a bit odd, yes. it
should be noted he's Jewish and his parents were the only
holocaust survivors in their families

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Finkelstein:
On Holocaust denial
In a July 2020 online discussion with British activists,
Finkelstein called Holocaust denier David Irving "a very
good historian". Finding insufficient the evidence of
Richard J. Evans as the expert witness in Irving's
unsuccessful libel action in 2000 against Deborah Lipstadt,
who had labeled Irving a Holocaust denier, Finkelstein said
Irving had "produced works that are substantive … If you
don't like it, don't read it. In the case of Irving, he knew
a thing or two—or three".[125]

In October 2020, Finkelstein published an extract from his
forthcoming book, Cancel Culture, Academic Freedom and Me on
his website following the banning of Holocaust denial from
Facebook and Twitter. According to Finkelstein, "Holocaust
denial should be taught in university and preferably by a
Holocaust denier" as a means "to inoculate students" against
it. He states: "If one is committed to the purity of truth,
not just in its wholeness but also in its parts, then a
Holocaust denier performs the useful function of ferreting
out 'local' errors, precisely because he is a devil’s
advocate—that is, fanatically committed to 'unmasking' the
'hoax of the 20th century.'"[126][127]



 

offline big from lsg on 2024-03-19 20:57 [#02633684]
Points: 23210 Status: Addict | Followup to big: #02633683 | Show recordbag



should be noted because also i didn't know this about him


 

offline big from lsg on 2024-03-19 21:04 [#02633685]
Points: 23210 Status: Addict | Followup to big: #02633684 | Show recordbag



well and it's not irrelevant


 

offline big from lsg on 2024-03-19 21:10 [#02633686]
Points: 23210 Status: Addict | Show recordbag



(also i have looked into this before, i'm pretty sure,
because i'm following him on Twitter. probably because bad
empanada has mentioned him)


 

offline Roger Wilco from Mo's Beans on 2024-03-19 22:00 [#02633687]
Points: 1759 Status: Lurker



Big. Why do you hate Jews?


 

offline Tony Danza from Sesame Street on 2024-03-19 23:20 [#02633697]
Points: 3455 Status: Regular



That's great Roger, I hope you're keeping track of these
zingers in woke_destroyer.rtf

Use Comic Sans to be extra cheeky.


 

offline big from lsg on 2024-03-20 07:47 [#02633710]
Points: 23210 Status: Addict | Followup to Roger Wilco: #02633687 | Show recordbag



why do you hate brown people?

(pretty genuine question: islamophobia intersects with that
greatly.)

also what Fleet says, with 'it is very simple' (i'd include
civilians with journalists and kids, though)

i started watching: it's very informative and it has some
interesting dynamics (like: the zionist is also respected
for his historic work, by the other side)



 

offline big from lsg on 2024-03-20 07:47 [#02633711]
Points: 23210 Status: Addict | Followup to Tony Danza: #02633697 | Show recordbag



well said


 

offline dariusgriffin from cool on 2024-03-20 13:36 [#02633719]
Points: 12163 Status: Regular



don't call people "zionists" as a pejorative unless you want
to alienate jews (including leftist jews). if what you mean
is "supporter of the far right israeli government and the
massacre of palestinians", say it as such.


 

offline Roger Wilco from Mo's Beans on 2024-03-20 13:59 [#02633720]
Points: 1759 Status: Lurker | Followup to big: #02633710



Fuck Islam, sure I'm Islamophobic. Who wouldn't be? It's a
violent crock of shit. Prove to me it isn't. What do you
know about Islam? Bearing in mind they won't let you into
their mosque to casually browse their DVDs and browser
history. What with you in your pink shorts.


 

offline big from lsg on 2024-03-20 14:07 [#02633721]
Points: 23210 Status: Addict | Followup to dariusgriffin: #02633719 | Show recordbag



i mean it a 'zionist'. his wiki page says he calls himself
that. would be odd if he wasn't. like: would be odd to be a
scholar and in support of Israel's politics and not be a
zionist


 

offline big from lsg on 2024-03-20 14:44 [#02633723]
Points: 23210 Status: Addict | Followup to dariusgriffin: #02633719 | Show recordbag



why would it be that bad, though? i don't think zionism is
good. and the far right israel government is rooted in it
(as is the state Israel)


 

offline Roger Wilco from Mo's Beans on 2024-03-20 15:00 [#02633724]
Points: 1759 Status: Lurker | Followup to big: #02633723



Most Jews are zionists, ie they believe Israel has a right
exist as the home of the Jewish people. You're against that.
You'd rather there was yet another failed Islamic state.
Why? Because you're a poof.


 

offline big from lsg on 2024-03-20 15:03 [#02633727]
Points: 23210 Status: Addict | Followup to Roger Wilco: #02633724 | Show recordbag



there's plenty of antizionist Jews

leave my threads alone, please, go yell in the street


 

offline big from lsg on 2024-03-20 15:06 [#02633728]
Points: 23210 Status: Addict | Followup to big: #02633727 | Show recordbag



or that's what it looks like, now, yelling in the street. a
forest would be more preferable, or take up kungfu


 

offline mermaidman on 2024-03-20 15:45 [#02633729]
Points: 8028 Status: Regular | Followup to Roger Wilco: #02633720



then why is it a problem for you if someone hates jews? (not
that anyone here hates jews)


 

offline mermaidman on 2024-03-20 15:51 [#02633730]
Points: 8028 Status: Regular



big is responsible for these threads every time. i remember
him saying he didn't like the discord because ppl talked
politics there in the politics thread (don't remember what
it was called) that is now closed and 90 percent of his
threads are like this here


 

offline big from lsg on 2024-03-20 16:26 [#02633732]
Points: 23210 Status: Addict | Followup to mermaidman: #02633730 | Show recordbag



it very little of my threads, but the threads get too much
engagement

it's only two threads

also the intend of the two threads was benign


 

offline RussellDust on 2024-03-20 21:12 [#02633745]
Points: 15924 Status: Regular | Followup to Roger Wilco: #02633720



Shame. You sound like my Dad, who’s a good man but
becoming twisted with hatred.

Of course there’s good in Muslim faith and Muslim people.

What was Christianity up to when it was roughly the age
Islam is now? ‘Member? In my worthless opinion it’s all
down to interpretation and the fact some rather scary people
decided stuff had to be rigorously taken word for word and
no interpretation was allowed.

Funny how most Islamic terrorists (the ones who actually do
the nasty work, not those who plan it) were known to play
video games, smoke weed and drink beer.

Roger, no one in their right mind would accept terrorism as
being the correct way. But I also think it’s extreme to
put everyone in the same basket. In its youth Islam was the
religion of science, art and poetry. Some people are cunts,
that’s all. All over the place.



 

offline RussellDust on 2024-03-20 21:14 [#02633746]
Points: 15924 Status: Regular



Also I have to agree with big, not all Jewish people believe
in the state of Israel as a right.

What is it with generalising everything?


 

offline mermaidman on 2024-03-20 21:33 [#02633747]
Points: 8028 Status: Regular | Followup to RussellDust: #02633746



now that he's a jew he can speak for all of the jews


 

offline dariusgriffin from cool on 2024-03-21 03:59 [#02633750]
Points: 12163 Status: Regular | Followup to big: #02633723



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Types_of_Zionism


 

offline dariusgriffin from cool on 2024-03-21 04:08 [#02633751]
Points: 12163 Status: Regular



and so, you know, i'm not a big fan of nations and borders
and all, but goys singling out jews and disapproving of them
for wanting a jewish state after a couple millennia of
persecution is a bit inconsiderate at best


 

offline dariusgriffin from cool on 2024-03-21 04:21 [#02633752]
Points: 12163 Status: Regular



but if you want a more practical answer: anyone who's just a
tiny bit attuned to antisemitism encounters the word more
often as a sort of euphemical slur than as a
meaningful descriptor, and that is how it will come across


 

offline mermaidman on 2024-03-21 08:46 [#02633753]
Points: 8028 Status: Regular



what about the new york tunnel jews? they didn't let them
keep their tunnel either


 

offline big from lsg on 2024-03-21 19:13 [#02633778]
Points: 23210 Status: Addict | Followup to dariusgriffin: #02633752 | Show recordbag



i'll try not using it as a slur

i guess i meant political zionist, here, specifically


 

offline Roger Wilco from Mo's Beans on 2024-03-21 19:24 [#02633779]
Points: 1759 Status: Lurker



They won't thank me, but what Darius said.


 

offline dariusgriffin from cool on 2024-03-22 01:23 [#02633800]
Points: 12163 Status: Regular | Followup to big: #02633778



honestly, bar some very specific expert contexts, at this
point i just don't see how the word could be useful in
political discourse, except for raging antisemites to
maintain plausible deniability. it's not worth the confusion
if you're truly only using it to mean "supporter of the
current israeli government" (which is a very reductive usage
of a concept that has a very long and very broad history).

dan i don't want to ruin our moment but if you can't manage
a she i'd really rather be he'd than they'd lol.


 


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