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 Now online (3)dariusgriffin RussellDust Monoid ...and 81 guests Last 5 registered Oplandisks nothingstar N_loop yipe foxtrotromeo Browse members... |
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What's your take on causality? Do causal connections absolutely belong to reality? Is causality merely a category human reason applies to reality but which has no meaning beyond the human perspective? ..? |
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I’m just happy to have seen Skinny Puppy in Lawrence in 2023. Hope they do out out more turnes, but they’ve had a good run! |
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Let's get into quantum physics |
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Treating causality as an irreducible and eternal metaphysical essence seems like a bad idea except for the purpose of writing gay papers (gaypers). Are you writing a gayper? |
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causality is a necessary aspect of our perception |
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why necessary. why couldn't it be contingent / an accident |
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or culturally determined |
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oops got to be careful around that word "determined" |
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is that a trick question to make us think about all the wrongs we do? now the human perspective is pretty important imo. we fuck up each other and verything else in our way good and its putting our existence to shame imo. being determined to fuck this place up in the least possible of ways is the way to go. |
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All the matter and energy shot out of the big bang, along with some specialized ghosts like the law of gravity and weak nuclear force and thermodynamics. The motion from that event is ongoing and it caused you to witness some homless guy taking a shit on the street when you were 5 years old. That motion spun up your neurotransmitters enough to make this post. Or mb not cuz of quantum mechanics or some shit who knows. |
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where can i get a quantum mechanic on a sunday to fix time moving towards monday morning? in dire need of a loophole here. |
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*Puts on visor.* "If we hit the temporal array with the deflector dish's displacement field at the exact moment when ijonspeches has to go into work, it COULD send him back to the previous night. It'd be like...unfolding a piece of origami in a windstorm. It's a longshot captain, but it... just might work." |
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sorry bro instead of working it actually fused you with epicmegatrax |
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well because obviously we couldn't perceive (in any meaningful sense of what it means to "perceive") without causality |
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it doesn't mean it's necessarily a true aspect of the world in itself, but our world is that of phenomenon |
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we can't X without Y strongly suggests causality is a thing |
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Dead people have it better |
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yes, it's a necessary aspect of our perception |
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or a necessary aspect of the phenomenal world, which is the world as we understand it, so, yes, causality is a thing |
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and in fact it's the best answer you can give to someone who wonders if maybe all the causality we've observed so far isn't merely coincidence. no, causality isn't empirical coincidence, causality is a priori and necessary to our perception. owned. |
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It's really funny to me that there are still Kantians in 2023, like you can't just read Hume for yourself and see how badly Kant misunderstood him. |
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yeah don't expound or anything! |
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hehe you know what, I was writing this big honking thing that I probably deserve at least an MA for so I deleted it. Suck it, faggots! |
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Suck it, homosexuals! |
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was worth a shot, maybe we can use the transporters memory cache to re-seperate if we use the chronometric particle signature we just found on our scanner. lets wait though until we beat sonic and recorded a jam, this is just a once in a lifetime opportunity. real monkeydrummer feel. |
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no but seriously why are you being so hostile, it's not about your stalin cult again is it? |
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lol |
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Teaching an 'intro to theoretical philosophy' course this semester made go back to this classical question. Most students, or at least those who participate, seem to lean towards a roughly Kantian perspective. So naturally, since causality is one of the weirdest things ever, I was wondering: What is XLT thinking about this? Thx for all of your replies. |
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"You and me, baby, ain't nothin' but mammals So let's do it like they do on the Discovery Channel" - David Hume |
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"How can mirrors be real if our eyes aren't real" - Immanuel Kant |
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so are you an irrationalist now i genuinely can't follow |
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if we don't destroy ourselves, we're merely the squishy organic bootloader for machine consciousness. it simply makes the most engineering sense i am fated to do what i choose to do. it's my choice, but it's all part of larger pattern. fighting upstream means layers. if anything, i am confident in my individuality, e.g. even if i am a scripted robot, i am a truly unique entity |
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there is causality beyond the human perspective asseen in the intuition of animals. even they can pick up the regularities in the ways objects around us change over time and unfold in space. outside subjectivity there is no causality though, as causality describes the necessary changes (effects) in an object given a certain cause(s). but there can be no object without a subject to understand it as such, same as there can be no time or space or any other attribute as this are simply ways to make the world an object to a subject, not what the world is in itself. |
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even they can pick up the regularities in the ways objects around us change over time and unfold in space That would be causality. Here you're admitting that it exists outside of our subjective experience of it and the labels we apply to it. Sometimes naive realism is the best approach, indeed the only coherent approach. |
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you seem to be of the opinion that phenomenology is solipsistic, is that right? |
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(to which i could reply that no has denied our commonality of experience and we can absolutely deduce things about our phenomenological world while being cognisant of the limits of reason. in fact we're be better at it for it. kant's metaphysics are a powerful bullshit detector.) |
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I had to go casuality the other week when i fell over and fucked me eyebrow up |
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ended up loudly haranguing a foreign nurse who kept calling me "A" drunk... you are A drunk... felt like winston churchill .... much better "are NHS" at the GP studio wiv a nurse called jane byting her lip whilst fucking about with the gauze on me eyebrow |
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but you are assuming something could be an object without a subject to understand it as such, which is impossible. as said causality operates over objects, not whatever the world is outside representation (object/subject relationship). the way the world is represented to you is subjectively meaningful because of how it relates the object you understand as "you" to the rest of causes and effects unfolding in time and space (representing to you what is relevant in relationship to your body). but what is subjectively fundamental (as your subjectivity is the cause of everything you will ever experience, but you as an object in the system you are also an effect) is not fundamental for the world itself, as it has been doing its thing long before any instrumental considerations by subjects trying not to disaggregate. outside subjectivity the are no attributes (this are only instrumental for a subject), thats what the world is outside the subject/object relationship (the formulation of this truth is as old as parmenide, surely much older). what we get to see is not what there is but an instrumental way for us to navigate whatever is going on beyond the illusion (thinking the illusion is the world is akin to looking at a map and thinking thats the place its representing instead of its diagram). its not that there is nothing but mind, there surely is, but all you get to experience is what your mind presents to you, not the world itself: you see objects changing in space and time, but the world itself is completely unaware of objects, change, space and time. just as it is completely alien to subjectivity what the world is beyond them. |
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i like to think of xltronic as a conjoined smoking area but i'm not sure what the two places are |
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have u read "Zen & the Art of Motorcycle Maintainance" ... that's a bunch of stuff that will def fuck your head up, can recom. |
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Ill try to give it a read if I find it, it has been recommended before as the name definitely rings a bell. Being a subject that regards logic as my main cope mechanism I find the zen non conceptuality stuff appealing but utterly impenetrable if I can't arrive at the same conclusions by deducting them from something else I hold true. idealism has helped a lot though |
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Here's how Hegelian phenomenology works. Our experience of the world and our experience of our experience present challenges to the current form of our consciousness; this cancels our worldview and creates a new one which preserves and carries forward much of the previous worldview in a modified form. This spiraling process gradually assimilates our minds to the absolute. |
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bro that's just Daoism The Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao. The name that can be named is not the eternal name. The nameless is the beginning of heaven and Earth. The named is the mother of the ten thousand things. Ever desireless, one can see the mystery. Ever desiring, one sees the manifestations. These two spring from the same source but differ in name; this appears as darkness. Darkness within darkness. The gate to all mystery. |
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trainable parameters |
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Aleister Crowley's Book of Lies is quite useful too, use it like rastas use the Bible, flick through and pick a bit |
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causality my bum |
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maybe so, although that quote seems to imply there is a limit in language, which there is, but there is also a limit in how we represent the world. however this is called it really is something that can't be denied, the world is everything going on at once, noise. it is the mind that can collapse it to time and space or any other attribute. this implies that there is no end to time, as even if every subject was to disappear, they would emerge again from whatever the world is outside subjectivity in no time at all (as time can only exist within representation). this leaves us with an eternal present, and thats how hegel is wrong, there is no end of time as time is subjective and subjectivity will never end, as the absolute (the world outside representation) rushes to subjectivity and not the other way around; our minds cant assimilate with the absolute as the absolute is beyond subjectivity, there is no trascendental funk at the end of time, as there will always be subjectivity |
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there is causality beyond the human perspective asseen in the intuition of animals. even they can pick up the regularities in the ways objects around us change over time and unfold in space. there's all sorts of assumption in this. i think it's fundamentally wrong to ascribe this mystical power of "intuition" to animals, as it's effectively sweeping lots of stuff we could rationalize under the rug as "magic" similar incorrect assumption is that competition for resources is the primary driver of evolution. that matters, but what really accelerates things is species interacting with each other -- not just competition, but all being puzzle pieces part of a larger shared picture for example ~ birds have "intuition" about where to fly, where to roost. but perhaps [again, for example] they only follow the patterns of insects, who follow the patterns of plants, and all of them are somewhat impacted by the weather at once, and they're gradually evolving to adapt to human disruption as best they can. so you wind up with something like, "the birds moved away right before they tore the place up with a new freeway, how did they know? what insane instincts animals have" and instead it's like: the insects left as they cleared stuff up in advance and so the birds went elsewhere and they didn't fucking know shit they were just following rippling back and forth patterns the human thing is being able to step back and contemplate this is happening. and contemplate that other humans contemplate it, and this is a new hall of mirrors atop of species just reacting to one another i've said all of this before it's just hard to [succinct] |
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