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activists vs money
 

offline ijonspeches from 109P/Swift-Tuttle on 2023-01-11 17:31 [#02624072]
Points: 7304 Status: Regular | Show recordbag



police has begun to remove 400 activists from the evacuated
village Lützerath in the biggest lignite mine in europe. i
dont know if you have ever seen something like this mining
site. its like the grand canyon if you pass it by car.
around it there still are some villages that will be eaten
by the 225m large wheel excavator village after village had to be
removed for the digging site. now, i do think its better to
remove our own villages instead of those of indigenous
people around the world, but considering we hardly need the
brown coal any more. we definitely dont need it any more to
burn in power plants as there are plenty of good
alternatives, the government and the big power company made
a deal to dig up the rest, which will result in blasting up
280 million tons of co2 into the atmosphere to save a bit of
money, saving the profits of a company that could have
switched to alternatives long time ago and dont care about
the climate pact of paris or the result in general.
activists have successfully saved a large and old forest
before. one journalist died in the battle for it. now they
fortified themselves in the remains of said village.



 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2023-01-11 19:10 [#02624077]
Points: 21883 Status: Lurker



what sort of mad bastard would try and excavate wheels?


 

offline Wolfslice from Bay Area, CA (United States) on 2023-01-11 22:59 [#02624079]
Points: 4296 Status: Addict



Lützerath


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2023-01-11 23:35 [#02624080]
Points: 21883 Status: Lurker | Followup to Wolfslice: #02624079



two very different approaches to engineering, there


 

offline ijonspeches from 109P/Swift-Tuttle on 2023-01-12 07:04 [#02624096]
Points: 7304 Status: Regular | Followup to Wolfslice: #02624079 | Show recordbag



isengard is one of my fav names for the region i live in ^^
surely is fitting like no other.
while we still have large city size areas, we make steel in,
many former sites and cavities have already become lakes,
many warehouses recreational and cultural facilities, blast
furnaces museums. and i like that we did it in our area and
not destroyed some other place for it. we still need some
steel, we just have to stop burning coal for energy. asap.


 

offline ijonspeches from 109P/Swift-Tuttle on 2023-01-12 07:23 [#02624099]
Points: 7304 Status: Regular | Followup to EpicMegatrax: #02624077 | Show recordbag



hmm, archeologists?!
maybe if we placed some rare fossil at the site they´d stop
digging for a while... you know a neanderthal holding a
speak and spell or sumpin.


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2023-01-12 08:15 [#02624100]
Points: 21883 Status: Lurker | Followup to ijonspeches: #02624099



no, sarumon and the other one.


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2023-01-12 08:29 [#02624101]
Points: 21883 Status: Lurker



don't worry, we're making new relics for a different
civilization to dig up later.

anyways, your initial post was long, and the video you
posted -- rather serene, really. just a machine moving some
sand. birds singing. i don't know what the fuck lignite is.
but mostly

activists have successfully saved a large and old forest
before. one journalist died in the battle for it. now they
fortified themselves in the remains of said village.


this is where i will temporarily become judi dench from
Casino Royale (2006):

we're trying to find out how an entire network of
eco-pillagers operate, and you give us one forest.
hardly the big picture, wouldn't you say?


that the real problem is BT or Exxon or whatever Shell
company provides laudable deniability, they've priced this
in already, you know that right? they've allocated some of
their budget and schedule to: "oh, these people. it will
take anywhere from 1-N days and we've planned for this" and,
hey, guess what? you're just arguing with a bunch of
laborers who are trying to make a buck, and a bunch of local
thugs, both of which may actually be your buddies. and the
problem is you waited until it showed up in your forest
rather than stopping your government from cutting these
deals, and now it's too late. and you might save a forest,
maybe even for more than a few days, but... phyrric victory.
better than those twits gluing themself to art with soup or
whatever, i suppose. golf clap


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2023-01-12 08:43 [#02624102]
Points: 21883 Status: Lurker



also, sorry about the wheel misunderstanding we had in my
first reply. glad we steered that up


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2023-01-12 09:06 [#02624103]
Points: 21883 Status: Lurker



no, wait, that's not bad. we wanted to question him, not
to kill him
and later any thug can kill and if
we're treating this as a mirror of sorts, any idiot
hippie can die for a forest
and i don't mean to be
insensitive; quite the opposite -- i think you can squeeze a
lot more out of it if you're ready to make that level of
sacrifice, perhaps without even having to actually do it.
the original self-immolation display, saigon, was actually
very calculated to maximize PR. like: if i'm burning myself,
i'm going to get my freaking nickel's worth. dying for a
single forest feels more like an understandable but horribly
misguided attempt to give one's life meaning. please climb
up a few rungs and kick exxon in the balls instead. even if
their branding is handsome; the tiger pumps far sharper than
any other chains i must say


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2023-01-12 09:22 [#02624104]
Points: 21883 Status: Lurker



i want you to take your ego out of the situation. to judge
the situation dispassionately

e.g. complete opposite end of the spectrum from
LAZY_TITLE


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2023-01-12 09:22 [#02624105]
Points: 21883 Status: Lurker



eqo out of the eguation

eco out of the asian?

i'm throwing this word tangent out now.


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2023-01-12 09:25 [#02624106]
Points: 21883 Status: Lurker



but yeah, a lot of these intense climate standoffs, it
really seems about the protestors personal ego and attempt
to escape the drudgery of their own existence rather than a
sharp and organized movement to confront those actually
responsible via, i'd suggest, the same tactics: PR
campaigns; hostile land buyouts. get a few millionaires
together and strategically buy parcels of land to make their
life a legal nightmare. sue them over and over. use the
proceeds to buy more land. buy a suit instead of laying down
in front of a bulldozer. c'mon people


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2023-01-12 10:06 [#02624107]
Points: 21883 Status: Lurker



On the otherhand it has been pointed out by both Thich
Nhat Hnah and Russell McCutcheon that by contextualizing the
event in 1963 Vietnam, the self-immolation can be seen as a
"political act" aimed at calling attention to the injustices
being perpetrated against the South Vietnamese people by a
puppet government of Euro-American imperialism. In this
context, Thich Nhat Hnah describes the act of
self-immolation as follows:

"The press spoke then of suicide, but in the essence, it is
not. It is not even a protest. What the monks said in the
letters they left before burning themselves aimed only at
alarming, at moving the hearts of the oppressors, and at
calling the attention of the world to the suffering endured
then by the Vietnamese. To burn oneself by fire is to prove
that what one is saying is of the utmost importance…. The
Vietnamese monk, by burning himself, says with all his
strength and determination that he can endure the greatest
of sufferings to protect his people…. To express will by
burning oneself, therefore, is not to commit an act of
destruction but to perform an act of construction, that is,
to suffer and to die for the sake of one’s people. This is
not suicide."

Thich Nhat Hanh goes on to explaing why Thich Quang Duc’s
self-immolation was not a suicide, which is contrary to
Buddhist teachings:

"Suicide is an act of self-destruction, having as causes the
following: (1) lack of courage to live and to cope with
difficulties; (2) defeat by life and loss of all hope; (3)
desire for nonexistence….. The monk who burns himself has
lost neither courage nor hope; nor does he desire
nonexistence. On the contrary, he is very courageous and
hopeful and aspires for something good in the future."


LAZY_TITLE

showing up with wheels; having a plan. dark echoes of a
"happening" for sure


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2023-01-12 10:09 [#02624108]
Points: 21883 Status: Lurker



but i still think you'd be best off creating something like
a non-profit that functions like a private capital
acquisition machine; strategically search the globe for
cheap specks of land to purchase, that will grant ye a solid
berth to annoy and/or sue the fossil fuel bastards; extract
more money for more land. the way humans are, however, this
would eventually be valuable enough that some asshole would
attempt to take it over; you'd need to have it bury its
tracks somehow... whatever. i'm more concerned about rent


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2023-01-12 10:10 [#02624109]
Points: 21883 Status: Lurker



...and on risking your life, if you were good enough at my
proposed plan, someone would attempt to put hemlock
in your OJ at some point.


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2023-01-12 11:20 [#02624110]
Points: 21883 Status: Lurker



continued rambles in can hippies scale

that you don't want to merely be buying cheap specks of
hidden gem for merely an angle on suing corporate giants for
more cash. you want to get an eclectic but charming group of
grad students to live in this shit house, and their rent is
to start a youtube channel trying to do something like
homebrew the heat pump system you didn't pay to put in, in
an eco-friendly way. if you don't know about it, this will
sound weird, but: this would actually be a very nice gift to
grad students; many would be happy to land it. rent is just
a tinker project and a youtube channel for the project's
promotion. maybe they'll even invent something. but
whatever. now you are, at the very least 1) satellite media
presence, maybe even some cashflow somehow 2) justifiable
reason for being at the house to slap down "you're just
legal trolling arguments" 3) people there are down will all
this nonsense anyways

this is actually a lot like me thinking about how to map my
synthesizers around a track. i should probably stop on this;
stick to that.


 

offline ijonspeches from 109P/Swift-Tuttle on 2023-01-12 20:00 [#02624128]
Points: 7304 Status: Regular | Show recordbag



Those local thugs as you call them are one of the biggest
co2 sources in europe, one of the top 3 power firms in
germany and blocking a decentralized change in energy
supplies. Protest has been going on for years if not
decades. Average joe just doesnt give a shit about climate
change and the grave we dig ourselves. So yes the remains of
a tiny forest itself is insignificant. So is a few tiny
villages. I can see how their protest is easy to play down.
Even to make fun of. But People are fighting for more than
that. Anyone who doesnt see that is just closing their eyes.
Arguing there is bigger fish is firstly not true. It would
be quite a catch. and it is right here around my corner. In
an overall helpless situation victories here would make
others elsewhere more likely. And secondly: if you don't
stand up for something you ll fall for anything.


 

offline ijonspeches from 109P/Swift-Tuttle on 2023-01-12 20:05 [#02624129]
Points: 7304 Status: Regular | Followup to EpicMegatrax: #02624106 | Show recordbag



What about the egos of a big ceo? Im sure all they think
about is the greater good. Anyway motivation of activists is
irrelevant. Dont put the people in focus.


 

offline ijonspeches from 109P/Swift-Tuttle on 2023-01-12 20:29 [#02624130]
Points: 7304 Status: Regular | Show recordbag



Lignite is brown coal. I looked it up and thought this was
the correct term and i thought the excavator was good
clickbait. Its a fucking beast and i love it, seeing that
puny human alongside the time i linked.but yeah i was in a
hurry before work.


 

offline ijonspeches from 109P/Swift-Tuttle on 2023-01-15 10:36 [#02624195]
Points: 7304 Status: Regular | Show recordbag



So, yesterday i went to the protest in Lützerath.
According to the news more than 10.000 people showed up to
express their dislike for our politics, to protest against
unnecessary co2 pollution and climate change. Other sources
and a regular stadium attender estimated it could have
easily been 30.000 protesters. all i can say is, that it was
a loooot of people, who still managed to come to a remote
place, despite a rather displeasent rain storm blasting us
and turning the whole site into a massive mudhole. it was
great.



 

offline big from lsg on 2023-01-15 11:27 [#02624196]
Points: 22528 Status: Regular | Followup to ijonspeches: #02624195 | Show recordbag



awesome you went

Greta was there as well :)



 

offline ijonspeches from 109P/Swift-Tuttle on 2023-01-15 11:39 [#02624199]
Points: 7304 Status: Regular | Followup to big: #02624196 | Show recordbag



yes, im glad i put up with the travel. thunberg is a good
speaker. easy to understand, knew how to use a micro and she
put the essentials in focus instead of some other guy who
talked nonsense like co2 is racism and called to violence.
well, as an audience you still can show what you approve of
and what not. police upped the numbers to more than 15.000.


 

offline big from lsg on 2023-01-15 11:53 [#02624202]
Points: 22528 Status: Regular | Followup to ijonspeches: #02624199 | Show recordbag



without knowing the details, i suspect the other guy talked
nonsense, to me, at least. hard to compete with Greta,
though: she's brilliant. well, and she's pointed out the
common ground between climate change and colonialism, too


 

offline big from lsg on 2023-01-15 11:53 [#02624203]
Points: 22528 Status: Regular | Followup to big: #02624202 | Show recordbag



i don't suspect the other guy talked nonsense


 

offline big from lsg on 2023-01-15 11:55 [#02624204]
Points: 22528 Status: Regular | Followup to big: #02624203 | Show recordbag



for instance


 

offline ijonspeches from 109P/Swift-Tuttle on 2023-01-15 18:06 [#02624207]
Points: 7304 Status: Regular | Followup to big: #02624204 | Show recordbag



yeah he was certainly right in terms of climate injustice,
but calling it racism is not correct. money knows no color.
so i more or less disagreed with terminology here.

i didnt agree his call to storm the place and his call to
violence. I see the urgency for change, while millions are
dying in the global south, but i dont approve of violence.
and in my eyes that is a very counter productive thing.

some radicals apparently used fireworks on the police they
said and they probably did. i heard some bangs and saw some
smoke thats certain. but i cant say for sure as i wasnt
close up at the gates of hell.
the thing is: this new years eve germany had a bigger
incident with idiots attacking police and firemen with
fireworks, which caused a huge debate around new police
measurements already and it is plain stupid ruining a good
protest with this. Half of the news picked it up and many of
the reports put violence in the focus. i dont think this is
helping.


 

offline ijonspeches from 109P/Swift-Tuttle on 2023-01-15 19:26 [#02624209]
Points: 7304 Status: Regular | Show recordbag



to clarify, calling someone, who doesnt give a shit about
climate, a racist is misleading. and afaiac an accusation
like that will end up in people defending themselves or
disagreeing altogether. sadly, the ongoing climate injustice
already, is too abstract for most people.

he nicely pointed out that we should cut the global souths
debts as germany was relieved of its debts after ww2.


 

offline big from lsg on 2023-01-15 20:10 [#02624210]
Points: 22528 Status: Regular | Show recordbag



let's focus on mud wizard


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2023-01-15 20:55 [#02624212]
Points: 21883 Status: Lurker



oh cool it was actually a village


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2023-01-15 20:55 [#02624213]
Points: 21883 Status: Lurker



sounds like it was a wheel success?


 

offline ijonspeches from 109P/Swift-Tuttle on 2023-01-16 07:11 [#02624226]
Points: 7304 Status: Regular | Followup to EpicMegatrax: #02624212 | Show recordbag



yeah it was, they dismantled the last remaining squatted
buildings and farm houses. the activists built a small
community and actually lived there to keep the energy
company from digging. when the clearance was about to start,
a lot of them went into a large number treehouses and hid
behinf barricades to stall the evacuation.

effectively that is what caused the attention to the company
firing up about triple the amount germany is allowed to
blast into the atmosphere by the paris agreement, which i
guess should be binding too right?

best part for me was, when a couple of days before the
evacuation the company put up fences somewhere around the
larger area, which activists then stole to further fortify
themselves. class!


 

offline ijonspeches from 109P/Swift-Tuttle on 2023-01-16 07:12 [#02624227]
Points: 7304 Status: Regular | Followup to EpicMegatrax: #02624213 | Show recordbag



haha, id say so.


 

offline ijonspeches from 109P/Swift-Tuttle on 2023-01-16 07:15 [#02624228]
Points: 7304 Status: Regular | Followup to big: #02624210 | Show recordbag



behold!!
haha, love it.
i saw another video that had some clumsy music playing ^^



 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2023-05-14 04:44 [#02627599]
Points: 21883 Status: Lurker



FYI

this is not quite yet my idea of, essentially, building an
endowment. buying up actual property and building a hut in
the way of a gas pipeline. suing massively and growing your
endowment

but they're in the direction


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2023-05-14 04:49 [#02627600]
Points: 21883 Status: Lurker



owning property typically gives you a vast firehose of legal
avenues you wouldn't have next country over, really.
strategically acquiring really small, really annoying bits
of land... this is how you can waltz into rural alaska or
some shit and stop a pipeline from halfway around the world.
or so i feel


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2023-05-14 05:02 [#02627601]
Points: 21883 Status: Lurker



then the warning, i guess: if this works, you are creating
an increasingly massive pool of money and held property
whose gradual increase is being architected by lawyers, and
be careful how you set this up because it'll become a target
just for the riches even without worrying about big oil.
greta seems like an obvious choice. she'd have my vote
simply because, like, not only does she seem solid, but
don't think people would argue about the choice


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2023-05-14 05:03 [#02627602]
Points: 21883 Status: Lurker



to run that, i mean.


 

offline ijonspeches from 109P/Swift-Tuttle on 2023-05-14 09:49 [#02627617]
Points: 7304 Status: Regular | Show recordbag



gonna look into that and other thred,
quite busy these days
looks interesting, havent gotten much into this yet


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2023-05-14 11:20 [#02627618]
Points: 21883 Status: Lurker



perhaps i'm a hacker that secretly wants a law degree. saw
the article [posted above] show up a day or two ago; thot:
it's always nice when someone actually does my thing. as
ronald raygun said, there's no limit to what you can
accomplish if you don't care who gets credit. i'm not like
this for all my ideas, thanks, but this is like -- if greta
is running it what'd i do but propose a good architecture,
anyways? and i don't think i have the stomach to get shot at
by oil snipers. have it.

then the other thread, however, the city of industry thing
-- that was honestly pure serendipity. i made that thread
slightly before i read that article. then i'm just...
playing out the thread, HA! what a punny. and i start
actually seriously analyzing what it is, and... oh,
interesting. i think i'm really onto something here. not
simply, "you should smugly steal their game plan because why
not" but "holy crap has anyone even sat down and taken a
moment to analyze city of industry like this before?"

and oh, gosh, that's fun. there's a lot in here

but in the end, it is, actually... i was going on about,
like "oh you're doing it wrong" months ago in this thread.
and i mouth off about how to do it better. and so now i'm
back with, i guess: "you see? someone else is doing some of
this already. and i don't want to be a jerk i'm just upset
you're doing it wrong"


 

offline big from lsg on 2023-05-14 12:05 [#02627619]
Points: 22528 Status: Regular | Show recordbag



look, here's me interviewing a guy from Germany, at
a Dutch Ende Gelande like action


 


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