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[Brian] Heroes and Villians
 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2022-08-11 08:10 [#02620384]
Points: 19281 Status: Regular



LAZY_TITLE

Heroes and Villians by The Beach Boys. This song has sent me
on such a trip during the last two days. I would listen to
Beach Boys constantly while playing with legos when I was
six, but Heroes and Villains just profoundly bothered me for
some reason, to the point where I would literally get up and
run to my ghettoblaster if I was distracted and wasn't
already in position to skip it before I was subjected to any
of it.

I was distracted and it came on, and I still would have
reflexively skipped it on sheer muscle memory if I hadn't
been. But I was, and eventually I tune back in, and: This is
so. fucking. weird

So I punch it into bad boy wiki p and I discover this was
essentially the moment Brian Wilson cracked; that he had a
much fancier version of this track more like good vibrations
and everyone was furious that he binned it


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2022-08-11 08:13 [#02620385]
Points: 19281 Status: Regular



So then wikipedia tells me that after this song commercially
failed, it was devastating for Brian, and he promptly began
to refer to the voices in his head as his Heroes and
Villians, and that, if the topic came up, he would say, "I
don't want to talk about it" and would promptly turn around
and walk away from you.

This struck me as utterly uncannily like lewis. His Angels
and Demons, he doesn't want to talk about it, he turns
around and walks away.

So I realized, after 30 years, why that song bothered me so
incredibly much: Even though I did not understand what I was
feeling, I could feel Brian was really having trouble at
that point, and it made me extremely uncomfortable to be
there with him in the moment even though I would not even
know his name for... yes, almost 30 years.


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2022-08-11 08:14 [#02620386]
Points: 19281 Status: Regular



That then, also, at six years old, with utterly no way to
process what I was feeling, I felt it. Then I promptly
reacted like Brian Wilson and I would literally rush to the
ghettoblaster to change the topic.


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2022-08-11 08:15 [#02620387]
Points: 19281 Status: Regular



That I pulled all of this out of a song when I was six
without understanding what I was feeling; impressive. I give
the credit to Brian

But then I got to studying the song, listening on loop, and
things got a lot more interesting


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2022-08-11 08:20 [#02620388]
Points: 19281 Status: Regular



Brian wrote in modular sections, at this stage. It's not
like verse, chorus, you have... modules, modular music, I do
think he even called it that. But if you listen to the
arguable chorus of this song -- the second module that
reveals itself -- the official lyrics are not entirely the
lyrics.

That I am just listening to this song properly for the first
time, and what I hear is "Daaancing on fingers, Daaancing on
tears" but then when I go to look up the lyrics they are
actually, "Heroes and Villians, just see what you've done."
Lewis would say exactly that about his Angels and Demons

But this is really where it fucking melted me: I really had
to listen hard to hear the official transcribed lyrics; that
yes, ok, they really are in there. However, once you stack
on all the vocal harmonies, it's like there are two sets of
lyrics at once. The official lyrics are buried and hard to
hear, but what you actually hear is tenuous and slips away
like a dream when you try to fix on it.

And this is exactly how auditory hallucinations feel to a
schizophrenic.


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2022-08-11 08:21 [#02620389]
Points: 19281 Status: Regular



Then I get into analyzing the song more deeply, I'm texting
his mom and it's blowing his mind too, this is just uncanny,
this whole song is about schizohprenia and yes please let's
try not to take it literally, this is how close it matches;
it could fool you into thinking it's about current events


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2022-08-11 08:22 [#02620390]
Points: 19281 Status: Regular



Dancing on fingers, what have you done.... No idea what a
doodle do... fucking hell. How. Did. He. Do. This


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2022-08-11 10:04 [#02620402]
Points: 19281 Status: Regular



if syd barrett's "bike" was screaming schizophrenia from a
rooftop, this is... more so busy accurately painting a
portrait of the condition that it forgets to actually
mention what its point is, and that's why it failed
commercially. that, and it is so. weird


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2022-08-11 10:05 [#02620403]
Points: 19281 Status: Regular



like i feel most people will somehow perceive there's
something deep going on here but the song never makes it
clear so they wind up a bit confused and frustrated and i
shouldn't have to think this hard for pop


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2022-08-11 10:26 [#02620404]
Points: 19281 Status: Regular



that i worry i'm pulling a BrianMegatrax here and this will
make no sense. so i'll add more context.

when i was around ten years younger i would occasionally
stay awake coding for literally three days, and sometimes...
i hear a radio playing in my computer closet, what? and i
get closer and closer, this is bizarre, there can't be a
radio playing in there... it's classical music... and...
then i get close enough, and i realize i'd just been
hallucinating it inside of a computer fan sound. that, it
was precisely like how it feels when you are walking at
dusk, and you see a pile of leaves out of the corner of your
eye and you think it's a cat! but then you actually look and
it's just a pile of leaves and snap your perception
of reality makes a distinctly noticeable hard transition,
like, "we saw it wrong, fixed now" and if you keep both sets
of lyrics in your head (heroes and villians, see what you've
done / dancing on fingers, dancing on tears) and you have at
least a mild knack for meditation you will get at least a
vague sense of what hearing voices is like.

i'm curious on belb's take. i do hope i'm not wrong because
i feel some momentum here


 

offline belb from mmmmmmhhhhzzzz!!! on 2022-08-12 13:16 [#02620413]
Points: 5902 Status: Lurker | Followup to EpicMegatrax: #02620404



i've been thinking on this, and recommend the brian wilson
much-delayed-solo-release of smile if you don't know it.
compare and contrast with the smiley smile version, it's
pretty interesting

i had angels and demons / heroes and villains too but i knew
them as kirstys and lewises (nothing to do with your lewis).
the nature of voice hearing is like, you only hear parts of
it and fill in the blanks with yr own insecurities.
naturally there's a huge variety in the details, one person
with schizophrenia will display symptoms another does not,
and vice versa

i think the good vs evil nature of the voices comes from
social conditioning (how could it not?) but it really does
often seem to the schizophrenic that they are they centre of
a larger battle, good and evil. what is the evolutionary
pressure for this? open to debate but i think we absorb a
lot of black-and-white stories in a disneyfied childhood,
goodies and baddies, cops and robbers etc. useful modes of
thinking for those in power


 

online ijonspeches from 109P/Swift-Tuttle on 2022-08-12 21:41 [#02620422]
Points: 6799 Status: Regular | Show recordbag



feels a bit like its the sgt peppers version of a bb song.
it does indeed sound like a circus band going weird in
certain parts.
dont know as much about the time though as to make a
profound comment.
the solo version sounds more sorted, tragic but sorted.


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2022-08-13 09:11 [#02620429]
Points: 19281 Status: Regular | Followup to belb: #02620413



em as kirstys and lewises (nothing to do with your
lewis). the nature of voice hearing is like, you only hear
parts of it and fill in the blanks with yr own
insecurities.


yes yes yes exactly this. lewis talking about his angels and
demons, then i finally, two days ago, read that brian wilson
was just an utter dead ringer talking about his heroes and
villains.

then i went on to say i have literally heard voices myself,
i have directly experienced this after staying awake for
three days, but then i saw what was happening and put myself
to bed and it never stuck. but sometimes i would actually
stay awake for a bit longer simply because it found it
supremely strange and fascinating

it actually goes so very deep; i actually feel like i need
to write it up properly.


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2022-08-13 09:16 [#02620430]
Points: 19281 Status: Regular



i will drop a few key points in advance.

let us start with the album cover for the single of heroes
and villians ~ LAZY_TITLE

that, ok, this is a doodle. with a dude. do a dudel. dude-l
doo. and i've been repeatedly listening to this song because
there is gold in here and it finally happens, that i
literally experience aphasia when i hear "you never know
what a dude'll do in a town full of heroes and villains" as
"you never hear what a doodle do" and then it melts down
into the rest of the vocals before the spinner sound

and the album cover really helped me, here, because i see
the spinning wheel that says "beach boys" and i'm like: oh,
yes, that's the spinner sound.

that essentially, even though this is not typical
verse/chorus, what is arguably a verse is a poetic
description of the conditions and its implications. then the
arguable chorus(es), brian just throws you into the pool
with an attempt to communicate the subjective experience of
hearing voices, and really, i feel like he succeeded to the
point where i am in this thread, still trying to untangle
how he did this. and i think i know at this point but it's
quite a long answer


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2022-08-13 09:17 [#02620431]
Points: 19281 Status: Regular



you never know what a doodle do

he has me mixing my own words up. bastard has me


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2022-08-13 09:18 [#02620432]
Points: 19281 Status: Regular



whenever you hear the wheel spinning he wants you to hear
his heroes and villains next section.


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2022-08-13 09:20 [#02620433]
Points: 19281 Status: Regular



then at the end, sunny down snuff i'm alright, clearly some
cocaine reduces the problem he's dealing with, that the
final mix of this was after months of fussing then he does
it at his home studio in three days, i guarantee you he was
awake for all three of those days

doodle do, dude'll do, do doo doo do, it's all there


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2022-08-13 09:21 [#02620434]
Points: 19281 Status: Regular



that i am adamant that he finally felt like, with this mix,
he'd nailed what it was like to hear voices, and he didn't
feel like he could recreate it back in a proper studio. and
that's why he mashed it through over all the much more
elegant versions

and yes i really ought to go listen to what he did when he
want back and finished it off years later.


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2022-08-13 09:23 [#02620435]
Points: 19281 Status: Regular



that... the grain, the bass, i actually do a lot of this
myself. but back in the late 60's most people would just
think the mix is shit


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2022-08-13 09:43 [#02620436]
Points: 19281 Status: Regular



the girl he loved once dying in the crossfire of bullets
between heroes and villains, this represents the condition
killing relationships


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2022-08-13 09:44 [#02620437]
Points: 19281 Status: Regular



i've been in this town [of heroes and villains] that back in
the city they've taken me for dead and gone for so long

etc etc


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2022-08-13 09:44 [#02620438]
Points: 19281 Status: Regular



+so long


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2022-08-13 09:46 [#02620439]
Points: 19281 Status: Regular



heroes on fingers
dancing on what you've done
heroes and villains
dancing on tears done


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2022-08-13 10:03 [#02620440]
Points: 19281 Status: Regular



the spinner, obviously, the randomness of the condition; you
never know what a doddle do, doo doo do do


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2022-08-13 10:04 [#02620441]
Points: 19281 Status: Regular



*doodle

he does not doddle once the entire track once; horrid typo


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2022-08-13 10:07 [#02620442]
Points: 19281 Status: Regular



once once once thrice
i'm serious about words but thinking about this all
seriously has me at another level


 

offline mermaidman on 2022-08-13 10:19 [#02620443]
Points: 7321 Status: Regular



when you hear or see something that already exists different
than it is that’s an illusion not a hallucination


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2022-08-13 10:22 [#02620444]
Points: 19281 Status: Regular



music is a programming language to recreate subjective
experience

find some finger paint and doo do do do the math

i would rather work with Brian for one day than Richard for
a week

but given that i doubt I'll ever get either, beggars can't
be choosers


 

offline mermaidman on 2022-08-13 10:30 [#02620445]
Points: 7321 Status: Regular | Followup to EpicMegatrax: #02620444



did this brian ever confirm any of your findings in his
track


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2022-08-13 11:40 [#02620446]
Points: 19281 Status: Regular



sorry, this is a longer answer

that, because i have a rather deece memory, a couple times
i've actually been able to catch a synchronicity in the act,
untangle it, and actually determine the forces responsible.
every time, it has been: [shared information, shared
timing]

that in olden days i feel like the role of a schizophrenic
was to spot potential disasters and avert them, and better
to be wrong a few times than miss being right once. so then
we get, say, my friend lewis, and in this context he finally
makes sense: the delusions that the fate of the universe
depends on him entirely; in olden days he'd be the Sybil in
the cave and it would be his job to worry about such things.
to hallucinate a bit on anything asked of him, and this
explains so much, why schizophrenia was selected in
evolutionarily -- you have the shaman tripping off in the
corner; the role of the shaman is to fix systemic problems
in the tribe where the usual patterns that keep things on
the rails will backfire.

so lewis has done things like... he's insanely worried about
someone and a moment later he gets a phone call and he's
told they were in a car accident. but, meanwhile, he will
also just text me randomly saying he has a terrible feeling
and am i ok? and i'm totally fine and he's wrong

but i feel like he was really built to spot the possibility,
and if you built everyone like this it would all go off the
rails within a generation or two, but if you didn't build
anything like this a single unusual catastrophic event could
take the whole tribe out

and last i heard Brian had retired to being a nice
midwestern dad; i doubt he uses the internet even. i'm just
glad he's ok, really. but no i'm just being philosophical
here; 98% certain he has no clue i exist. that xlt exists


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2022-08-13 11:56 [#02620447]
Points: 19281 Status: Regular



the other 2% being that i cannot rule out he feels my
presence somehow, even though it's like being torn between
"shut up that's insane" and "i cannot completely rule it
out." but i do emphasize i am talking 2% out of 100 and
probably that is way too rich


 


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