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Australia Social credit system
 

offline Hyperflake from Wirral (United Kingdom) on 2021-09-03 02:31 [#02611503]
Points: 28866 Status: Regular



probably formulated in Davos, how long till we see it in
the rest of the west

https://www.news.com.au/technology/online/security/governme
nt-considering-100-points-of-id-to-get-facebook-tinder-acco
unt/news-story/624550c621d662da7d3bd98ff3f0e888


 

offline ijonspeches from 109P/Swift-Tuttle on 2021-09-03 08:21 [#02611509]
Points: 6040 Status: Lurker | Show recordbag



initially i thought social media accounts now cost you a 100
credits in bail. so when you fuck up it will be gone.

dont know what to make of this really. on the one hand i
want people to be accountable for their actions. on the
other you have the privacy issues.

afaik, in the eu or germany the state has the right and
possibilities to ask the providers about your ip adress, and
bust your ass, if you break the law. that includes
harrassment in social media. good enough for me.

in any case it would mean the end of xltronic!



 

offline ijonspeches from 109P/Swift-Tuttle on 2021-09-03 08:26 [#02611510]
Points: 6040 Status: Lurker | Show recordbag



social media simlpy shifts their problem to the government.
any social media platform should be responsible to keep it
clean by sane means of moderating by themselves. sure enough
it costs them money when all they want is more data, data,
data, greedy mongrels.


 

offline Hyperflake from Wirral (United Kingdom) on 2021-09-03 08:33 [#02611511]
Points: 28866 Status: Regular



The clear issue I can see is how they can arbitrarily censor
what they deem acceptable, I know they can already do that
to a certain extent, but this seems to make things much
easier If they can immediately identify who is behind a
comment.

They could even couple it with an AI agent to root out
political dissidence. Its only a couple of further steps
until you have something like China's social credit system,
this seems to be a building block in such a system to my
eyes. I get what you're saying about personal
responsibility, but surely this is far too intrusive, who
gets to be the moral arbiter of your life.

I'd much rather have some offended people who choose not to
log in rather than the government decided what's acceptable,
governments don't usually have a good track record in this
sort of area as far as I can tell


 

offline Hyperflake from Wirral (United Kingdom) on 2021-09-03 08:36 [#02611512]
Points: 28866 Status: Regular



I sound like a libertarian, oh dear

I suppose an awkward analogy would be if every time you said
something in public, or made some sort of statement you had
to produce your identity card so they had you bang to rights



 

offline Hyperflake from Wirral (United Kingdom) on 2021-09-03 08:37 [#02611513]
Points: 28866 Status: Regular



It might start off fine if they band racist hateful
behaviour, but its a slippery slope, I'm sure you have
already figured it out yourself


 

offline Hyperflake from Wirral (United Kingdom) on 2021-09-03 08:39 [#02611514]
Points: 28866 Status: Regular | Followup to ijonspeches: #02611510



Yeah i mean its imperfect, but it seems fairly adequate, i
saw subreddits go dark to complain about another subreddit
on that site that spread misinformation on COVID, cos the
company wouldn't initially ban it, probably was generating
Ad revenue, but eventually they had to cos the other
subreddits went dark, this sort of community led approach
seems to work well in some respects


 

offline Hyperflake from Wirral (United Kingdom) on 2021-09-03 08:40 [#02611515]
Points: 28866 Status: Regular



LAZY_TITLE


 

offline ijonspeches from 109P/Swift-Tuttle on 2021-09-03 16:33 [#02611522]
Points: 6040 Status: Lurker | Followup to Hyperflake: #02611511 | Show recordbag



actually,
had no clue about the social credit system in china.
looked it up now on wiki. gross.
lets not have it anywhere in any form.


 

offline Wolfslice from Bay Area, CA (United States) on 2021-09-04 05:05 [#02611527]
Points: 3532 Status: Lurker



Australia is increasingly becoming an authoritarian shithole
run by self righteous Marxist cunts. I wish the people would
stand up for their fuckin liberties more there. UK too.


 

offline Hyperflake from Wirral (United Kingdom) on 2021-09-04 12:19 [#02611530]
Points: 28866 Status: Regular | Followup to Wolfslice: #02611527



seem more fascist than marxist but i guess at the extreme
its the same side of the shit sandwich, so won't quibble
about terminologies


 

offline Hyperflake from Wirral (United Kingdom) on 2021-09-04 12:20 [#02611531]
Points: 28866 Status: Regular | Followup to ijonspeches: #02611522



yeah incredibly dystopian isnt it, even Orwell couldn't have
concieve of that evil


 

offline marlowe from Antarctica on 2021-09-04 18:11 [#02611532]
Points: 24447 Status: Regular



Australia becomes even more right-wing authoritarian.

Wolfslice: those damn Marxists!


 

offline Wolfslice from Bay Area, CA (United States) on 2021-09-05 02:48 [#02611541]
Points: 3532 Status: Lurker



Marxism has never led to anything BUT authoritarianism.
Ever. It's not really a problem with the system mind you,
but with human nature in groups. Either way if you think
this legislation is coming from anywhere but the
"progressive" left, i have a bridge to sell you.


 

offline Wolfslice from Bay Area, CA (United States) on 2021-09-05 03:19 [#02611544]
Points: 3532 Status: Lurker



Also just generally if you think authoritarian=right you are
sorely mistaken. You can absolutely be authoritarian left
(communist), authoritarian right (republican/conservative),
libertarian left (identity politic safe space crybabies) or
lib right (beefcake libertarians). No political compass
mixes those axis. You can pinpoint those calling for "real
id" and nanny state regulation of the internet pretty
accurately in the authoritarian left. China is one of the
worst offenders and it sits right there.

Anyway no more politics for the day, your statement just
needed to get worked over a bit.


 

offline Hyperflake from Wirral (United Kingdom) on 2021-09-05 03:28 [#02611545]
Points: 28866 Status: Regular | Followup to Wolfslice: #02611544



that's all true, just happens the Australian ones are
definitely on the right of the spectrum


 

offline Wolfslice from Bay Area, CA (United States) on 2021-09-05 03:34 [#02611546]
Points: 3532 Status: Lurker | Followup to Hyperflake: #02611545



I'm trying to look up who drafted this legislation based on
the article. Sadly, there isn't much when I google
"Australian facebook real ID" or ID requirement,

It just says in the article it's coming from "The Morrison
Government," led by Scott Morrison, who from what I can tell
was a leader in the Liberal Party.

Now, I could be wrong and over there Liberals are
Conservates the way water flushes the opposite way and their
winter is in July. If you have some kind of link to show me
this is coming from the political right, I'll accept it.
This sort of legislation typically comes from the left.


 

offline Hyperflake from Wirral (United Kingdom) on 2021-09-05 03:39 [#02611547]
Points: 28866 Status: Regular | Followup to Wolfslice: #02611546



Yeah this type of stuff comes from the whole gamut of the
political spectrum, and Marxist China no doubt.

And yes they are to the right, and its back to from from
what it means in American terms like you said


 

offline Hyperflake from Wirral (United Kingdom) on 2021-09-05 03:40 [#02611548]
Points: 28866 Status: Regular



back to front


 

offline Hyperflake from Wirral (United Kingdom) on 2021-09-05 03:41 [#02611549]
Points: 28866 Status: Regular | Followup to Hyperflake: #02611547



although to say they are strictly Marxist now is a bit of a
misnomer i reckon, can't see a very good implementation what
Marx intended, not that I'm an apologist for communism


 

offline Hyperflake from Wirral (United Kingdom) on 2021-09-05 03:46 [#02611550]
Points: 28866 Status: Regular



I'm no political expert btw, I know this is something I
would never sign up for in a million years,


 

offline Wolfslice from Bay Area, CA (United States) on 2021-09-05 03:46 [#02611551]
Points: 3532 Status: Lurker



Well I'll accept that, I dont understand Australia's
political mechanisms, if things are all switched around. And
one thing I've been trying to work on is not seeing people
who disagree with me as shit people. They're just
individuals too.

I don't want to trade many of my freedoms for securities,
but some people do and they're ok. I understand WHY, I just
don't agree. I've been taking acid every 6 months or so and
feel kind of one with all lately. When people organize into
groups (teams, governments, corporations, affiliations,
unions, etc) everything always becomes us vs them, and it
eats away at everything. I wanna respect each individual as
an individual.

<3


 

offline Hyperflake from Wirral (United Kingdom) on 2021-09-05 03:57 [#02611552]
Points: 28866 Status: Regular | Followup to Wolfslice: #02611551



yeah if you boil it down, its a system of control via fear,
political affiliations almost don't matter these things
happen in every technologically advanced society I reckon,
if there is something a powerbase can abuse to further
control it will do it


 

offline mermaidman on 2021-09-05 09:37 [#02611553]
Points: 6816 Status: Addict | Followup to Wolfslice: #02611546



this sort of legislation typically comes from the left?!


 

offline Wolfslice from Bay Area, CA (United States) on 2021-09-05 12:37 [#02611557]
Points: 3532 Status: Lurker



It's a function of having a lot of bureaucracy related to
social intervention, so yeah usually from the left, when it
comes to internet censorship. Not always though.

This isn't the first time with Australia. China is obviously
the big one. And of course North Korea, Cuba etc. Germany is
leftist and has a lot of this sort of real-person validation
for age restricted stuff, and general censorship of blood
and violence. The UK has the "Online Safety Bill" which
grants Ofcom the ability to censor things that are "legal
but harmful." I don't really know what side that came from
though. I'd bet on the left.

I think the right is probably more prone to spying than
censorship-- Patriot act, etc. Bush's goons would show up at
your door if you googled the wrong thing after 9/11, by a
lot of accounts. Islamic nations on the far right also
obviously censor a lot of shit, pretty much all of them. I'm
sure they monitor some kind of "social credit score" even if
it's not that in name.


 

offline Hyperflake from Wirral (United Kingdom) on 2021-09-05 15:28 [#02611558]
Points: 28866 Status: Regular | Followup to Hyperflake: #02611547



meant Moaist China


 

offline ijonspeches from 109P/Swift-Tuttle on 2021-09-05 18:17 [#02611560]
Points: 6040 Status: Lurker | Followup to Wolfslice: #02611557 | Show recordbag



i have never seen germany as leftist in my whole life.
16 years of conservative party government, followed by a
brief social/green period which apart from some fantastic
green politics has futher diminished privacy and social
values, followed by 16 years of conservative coalition has
been constantly doing all the things the left criticises
governments all over the world for. liberal market policy
(greed & corruption) and decreasing social standards. by
rule of thumb refugees have been fucked over, with slight
improvements over the past 4 years. they are in no way
leftist. as a matter of fact the only leftist / marxist
party is excluded from all coalition the same way the
neo-nazi party is, which now has 10% in the coming election
btw.
anyway privacy and internet freedom has been cut deeply over
and over again since thats what power does, secure power. in
that i agree.


 

offline ijonspeches from 109P/Swift-Tuttle on 2021-09-05 18:45 [#02611561]
Points: 6040 Status: Lurker | Show recordbag



btw a big german newspaper has let an institute calculate
the tax models of all parties for the coming election. the
state and the majority of the people would benefit the most
from the leftist party. roughly everyone under 20.000€
/year would pay 6% less taxes, everyone above 300.000€
pays 6% more taxes. this would result in poorer having a bit
off their chest. the rich wont even notice the difference
and the state would have 90.000.000.000+ yes, 90 billions to
spend on schools, healthcare, infrastructure and to support
green economy. the worst case liberal party on the other
hand would rather give everyone a tax release, which would
proportionally let thre rich get lots richer and the state
would make a minus of 88 billion per annum.

so the party that advocates a strong economy would ruin the
state in less than a legislation. the left party everyone
hates for supposingly wanting everyone to be poor would
stabilize the economy aswell as society.

i wrote this in a hurry but look it up if youre interested

LAZY_TITLE


 

offline Hyperflake from Wirral (United Kingdom) on 2021-09-05 19:27 [#02611562]
Points: 28866 Status: Regular



I don't think there is many centre left governments outside
of Scandinavia, Nordic countries have the best human
development indexes in the world and are often number one in
other metrics like happiness, longevity and education.


 

offline Hyperflake from Wirral (United Kingdom) on 2021-09-05 19:33 [#02611563]
Points: 28866 Status: Regular



Whats weird is all those people in Red states in America
dying of Covid and then cos they don't have health insurance
asking people to gofundme, their family member funeral costs
or the ones that survive medication, which sounds like some
form of socialism to me


 

offline Hyperflake from Wirral (United Kingdom) on 2021-09-05 19:35 [#02611564]
Points: 28866 Status: Regular



I mean that's what Socialism means to me a priority on the
most vulnerable members of society, not impinging on other
peoples rights, seems in America its become a sort of code
work for Marxism or something which is really weird.


 

offline marlowe from Antarctica on 2021-09-05 20:51 [#02611565]
Points: 24447 Status: Regular | Followup to Hyperflake: #02611563



When it comes to state and religion they to believe in
maximum interference, from a fundamentalist "Christian"
perspective (i.e. not Christian in the slightest), but when
it comes to the state and any kind of personal interference,
that is left-wing socialism/communism/marxism (all
interchangeable terms to most Ameriqans), including
"hand-outs" to individuals.

The grifters know it makes no sense, they're only interested
in furthering their agenda of the state being controlled by
ultra-conservative capitalist slavers - e.g. Fox News
members being vaccinated while pushing anti-vax broadcasts
on the channel.


 

offline Hyperflake from Wirral (United Kingdom) on 2021-09-05 21:03 [#02611566]
Points: 28866 Status: Regular | Followup to marlowe: #02611565



its next level fucked up that they are that are self
medicating with horse medication cos the level of
indoctrination they have


 

offline Hyperflake from Wirral (United Kingdom) on 2021-09-05 21:04 [#02611567]
Points: 28866 Status: Regular



herman cain award


 

offline marlowe from Antarctica on 2021-09-05 21:13 [#02611568]
Points: 24447 Status: Regular | Followup to Hyperflake: #02611567



Yeah i'm on that subreddit, and the Leopards Ate My Face
subreddit. They're interesting but also depressing because
it shows how lacking in empathy society is, and how people
on the left are really just as bad, because they'll get
hard-ons over the death and misery of chumps who, most of
them, are also victims of their circumstances and social
programming.


 

offline Hyperflake from Wirral (United Kingdom) on 2021-09-05 21:24 [#02611569]
Points: 28866 Status: Regular | Followup to marlowe: #02611568



yeah i wouldn't never wish death on another human being like
the people who post there, they lack empathy


 

offline Hyperflake from Wirral (United Kingdom) on 2021-09-05 21:26 [#02611570]
Points: 28866 Status: Regular | Followup to marlowe: #02611568



As you said we didn't all have the same experiences in life
that led us to bad decisions, as you said its the most
depressing forum cos, its watching people be pleased over
the death of ignorant people.


 

offline ijonspeches from 109P/Swift-Tuttle on 2021-09-05 22:01 [#02611571]
Points: 6040 Status: Lurker | Show recordbag



i have very strong feelings against all those pics, gifs
memes and what not. only the worst nonsense and false
information seems to spread. if we were reduced to text it
might be a huge improvement after all. i get hateful and
sarcastic images from all the sides and hardly any have been
providing me with useful information or have been proving
true. they all just do one thing. antagonize. putting us in
trenches against each other. i keep telling people if they
read about the facts or know the sources and read about lots
of the stuff spending time correcting, but most people are
just looking to see their opinions shared. in some ways i
might do this aswell.
the only thing i loved to share was the statistics about the
tax plans, which appear to be valid. they reflect what i
have always been talking about, that people who want to make
a business or have comfort in life or simply have food on
the table, jobs and an education constantly vote against the
parties who would actually help them.
what i find most impressive is immigrants voting the right
wing. leaves me speechless.


 

offline Wolfslice from Bay Area, CA (United States) on 2021-09-05 22:04 [#02611572]
Points: 3532 Status: Lurker | Followup to ijonspeches: #02611561



Thanks for that write up!

My dad lives in Herrenberg, so I've visited Germany a number
of times. I absolutely love it there. It's always been taxed
more heavily (most noticeable for me at the gas pump), but I
won't pretend to know the ins and outs of the economy and
how that's shifted between parties. I do know a lot of their
socialized programs are working pretty well.

My interest is almost purely in censorship. I HATE IT. I
would say that I hate censorship more than anything else.
Germany is frankly, not good with it. It IS a nanny state
when it comes to a free exchange of ideas, and in Germany's
case I do know where the legislation is coming from and it's
not bigoted christians, but self righteous progressives.

You have a fundamental right to freedom of speech, you were
born with it, always have it, until its taken away by
someone claiming authority over you. You have the right to
bad takes. If you can't exercise them out in the open,
you'll whisper them behind closed doors.

Marginalizing certain viewpoints just makes them all quietly
band together and strengthen their shit takes. Whereas if
you just leave things alone, most people can read something
that's way off and debate it (internally or externally), and
come out smarter for having even read something stupid. The
far end of the left doesn't think we're capable of that, and
thinks we should be protected from ever having seen it in
the first place. I'll stand against that whenever I can.



 

offline Hyperflake from Wirral (United Kingdom) on 2021-09-05 22:04 [#02611573]
Points: 28866 Status: Regular | Followup to ijonspeches: #02611571



yeah there is some sort of self flagellation going on when I
see second generation American immigrants voting for the
Republicans.

But yeah voting against your own interests or those of your
fellow man is spreading across the world now, UK is
practically a one party state now


 

offline marlowe from Antarctica on 2021-09-06 01:20 [#02611574]
Points: 24447 Status: Regular | Followup to Hyperflake: #02611573



What with corporate colonialism, states are going to become
pretty marginalised - and now that climate change is
irreversible and we're all doomed, it helps to explain why
these billionaire cunts like elon musk are pushing hard to
corporate-colonise mars.


 

offline Hyperflake from Wirral (United Kingdom) on 2021-09-06 02:25 [#02611575]
Points: 28866 Status: Regular | Followup to marlowe: #02611574



it feels really shitty to realise you're living in a
dystopian, environmental apocalypse movie, the next few
decades are going to be a hellride for all of us


 

offline ijonspeches from 109P/Swift-Tuttle on 2021-09-06 08:41 [#02611576]
Points: 6040 Status: Lurker | Followup to Wolfslice: #02611572 | Show recordbag



afaik the only censorship takes place in openly calling to
violence against persons or people and the usage of third
reich insignia and its picture material. we re kind of
sensitive to that.

im sure though that people secretly exchanging nazi
memorabilia gives them a boner and the feeling they belong
somewhere. we dont want to give stuff like that a stage.

i dont see this happening with any other topic. every once
in a while though someone now comes up and tries to blame
immigrants for something, which results in a huge media
turmoil most of the time. open discussions on tv were able
to expose this kind of attention seeking to what it is.
populists parties do get their fair share of voters now.
it has to have a chance to run into a dead end.



 

offline mermaidman on 2021-09-06 13:48 [#02611577]
Points: 6816 Status: Addict



so who’s living at australia?


 

offline Hyperflake from Wirral (United Kingdom) on 2021-09-06 15:07 [#02611578]
Points: 28866 Status: Regular | Followup to mermaidman: #02611577



Crocodile Dundee


 

offline ijonspeches from 109P/Swift-Tuttle on 2021-09-06 21:05 [#02611581]
Points: 6040 Status: Lurker | Followup to mermaidman: #02611577 | Show recordbag



dadonck
i think he used to for some time


 

offline Wolfslice from Bay Area, CA (United States) on 2021-09-06 21:05 [#02611582]
Points: 3532 Status: Lurker



It's a bit worse than that. They've been outright banning
games for years for violence too.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_banned_video_games#...

Very recently there's also the Network Enforcement Act,
desgined to "attempt to prevent and combat hate speech and
fake news." This is causing problems on Twitch, because
users are reporting channels they simply don't like and
Germany is banning them for a significant chunk of time
before they realize the streamer didn't even do anything
wrong and overturn it. Maybe they'll get a little better
about enforcing this in the future, but it's a fucking
dogshit law to begin with imo.

https://www.dexerto.com/entertainment/twitch-is-ruined-fo...

You could argue the merits of reducing exposure to violence,
but ultimately what this is a group of people curating art
for you, because they think they know what's best.


 

offline ijonspeches from 109P/Swift-Tuttle on 2021-09-06 21:38 [#02611583]
Points: 6040 Status: Lurker | Show recordbag



oh yes we censored the hell out of graphic violence and sex
for a long time.80s & some 90s in games, films, comics you
name it. it was terrible indeed since thats something i
wanted to see as a youth.
i thought this was common practice all over the world. and
its common sense imo concerning minors. well in the u.s.
only sex was censored to everyone and violence was ok until
hustler won in court i think.

anyway the display of violence that was banned in no way
seems necessary to portay a certain point of view. arguing
with freedom of speech is just a loophole to get away with
selling graphic material. im ok with displaying sex & gore
as long as it does not break the law by producing it, but i
find it absurd that it needed to be argued with freedom of
speech. lets just be honest and say that we simply like it
for what it is.

now, i was a underage gamer most years the ban was active
and a big problem was that the market was targeted towards
minors and for a long time didnt care to find a legal way to
sell uncensored games to adults. they either sold censored
games to a broad market or uncensored games to a very small
customer group with hardly a profit. but honestly, you
wouldnt want ANY age to have access to gory games now would
you? half of the time the ban was bollocks anyway. when
mortal kombat came out on console all the ads made sure you
knew the date and you could buy it before it got banned.
then they left all the gore in and just colored the blood
green.


 

offline ijonspeches from 109P/Swift-Tuttle on 2021-09-06 21:48 [#02611584]
Points: 6040 Status: Lurker | Followup to Wolfslice: #02611582 | Show recordbag



that new law youre referring to is quite a desaster and i
had not heard of it before.
for as long as i can remember the police banned sites that
actively broke the law, as in selling child pornography,
darkweb etc.
so if they hunt it down and try to make it unaccessible from
germany im perfectly fine with that. i trust the police
enough (just about enough:) they wont abuse their power for
anything but criminal activities.

with filtering it totally gets out of hands.
and as much as i hate these pics going round in social
media, banning them by filter and especially banning the
whole site is certainly not the way.


 

offline ijonspeches from 109P/Swift-Tuttle on 2021-09-06 21:52 [#02611585]
Points: 6040 Status: Lurker | Show recordbag



thats like banning caricature,
you may disagree or have an asshole opinion,
thats a basic right.

what gets to me more is that fear and idiocy seems to get
the upper hand in a media that used to be the tool of trade
of intellectuals.


 


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