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offline welt on 2019-01-21 23:36 [#02567509]
Points: 2035 Status: Lurker | Followup to RussellDust: #02567507



Sort of. There seems to be a real similarity between the
material objects in front of me (the kitchen table, the
oven, the window) and the thoughts in my mind (the thoughts
about the work-projects that need to be finished, the
thoughts about family members, ...). They are all external
and facing 'me'. Which doesn't mean that they are foreign
and alien. But they are distinctly not me.


 

offline RussellDust on 2019-01-21 23:39 [#02567510]
Points: 15892 Status: Regular



Lynch simply states that ideas are like fish swiming by. If
you catch it, if you were connected to that intuitive part
of yourself then you catch it. From then on you decide what
you do with it. If you don’t catch it and do something
with it then the fish will simply keep on swimming for
someone else to catch. this comes to mind.


 

offline RussellDust on 2019-01-21 23:42 [#02567511]
Points: 15892 Status: Regular | Followup to welt: #02567509



I was asking wether you think that all the bacteria and
foreign organisms inside “you” are “you”; not the
kitchen table that you can see and know the presence of. God
I’m thinking of Sartre now. :(


 

offline welt on 2019-01-21 23:48 [#02567512]
Points: 2035 Status: Lurker | Followup to RussellDust: #02567511



I would say that they are part of the environment in which I
can flourish/exist; and that they are perhaps a necessary
part for that flourishing, but that they are not identical
to 'me' because 'I' refers to my activity. But the bacteria
and so on govern themselves.


 

offline RussellDust on 2019-01-21 23:49 [#02567513]
Points: 15892 Status: Regular



Lovely chatting, welt! I’m off to bed. Look forward to
reading my Lord Snooty’s input tomorrow! I hope he
disagrees with both of us!


 

offline RussellDust on 2019-01-21 23:51 [#02567514]
Points: 15892 Status: Regular | Followup to welt: #02567512



Ah well yes, I always wondered what I’d “be” if I had
been brought up away from people and society and art, and
kept in a room being fed as a child and then given meals
through doors. Total isolation. Thing is, clearly (in my
view) such a person would still have a soul, just rather
“pure” and undernourished. Ok it’s getting late. Cave.
Gosh I should go to bed!


 

offline welt on 2019-01-21 23:52 [#02567515]
Points: 2035 Status: Lurker



Good night

🌘
🦇
🦡🦝🦔🦔


 

offline RussellDust on 2019-01-21 23:55 [#02567516]
Points: 15892 Status: Regular | Followup to RussellDust: #02567514



So I guess my question is: is your conundrum wether the soul
is something pure and inherited, or something that evolves
and learns, “something” influenced?


 

offline RussellDust on 2019-01-21 23:55 [#02567517]
Points: 15892 Status: Regular | Followup to welt: #02567515



🐠✨✨✨✨


 

offline Tony Danza from Fabulous Hollywood on 2019-01-22 13:10 [#02567535]
Points: 3420 Status: Regular | Followup to RussellDust: #02567486



I wonder if the micro organisms that make a lot of who I
am have souls. And if so, wether their souls influence my
soul. Is my soul the master soul?


There's a lot of evidence that gut bacteria are an integral
part of human biology and have a huge influence on disease,
immunity and our overall mood and state of mind. So,
yes.


 

offline Tony Danza from Fabulous Hollywood on 2019-01-22 14:19 [#02567538]
Points: 3420 Status: Regular | Followup to welt: #02567500



I don't talk about the soul because I think it's an
entity that could or should explain specific actions.


No, you were asking about that. I invite you to go back and
read your posts on elephants and pigs. If you want to change
the subject or inquire into a different facet of the soul,
mind and self that's fine but let's be honest here.

I think part of the problem is that the soul is ill-defined.
If meaning is defined by usage, and everyone seems to mean
something different by soul, then you have to nail it down.
Is it pneuma, is it psyche? Is it id or anima? Is it karma,
is it vital spark? Or do we mix and match? So I think you
have to nail down precisely what you mean by soul instead of
asking fascinating rhetorical questions that send your
interlocutors skittering down paths you later decide were
the wrong paths.

Another problem is that introspection tells us remarkably
little about our minds and the way we handle perceptions.
Introspection for example can tell us nothing about saccades
or where image processing happens in the brain. It can tell
us nothing about the function of gut bacteria in mood, or
about the amygdala's role in anxiety, fear and violence. It
certainly can't tell us how random thoughts, images and
impulses emerge from the endless churn of our tangled neural
networks or how any of this gives rise to first person
subjective experience. All we perceive through simple
introspection is the ripples on the surface.



 

offline RussellDust on 2019-01-22 14:34 [#02567539]
Points: 15892 Status: Regular | Followup to Tony Danza: #02567535



Yeah remember that parasite that lives in mice and rats that
needs a cat’s intestinal tract to reproduce in? It
basically makes the rodent fearless and even attracted to
cats in order to be easily catches by the feline predator!
Toxoplasma Gondii even makes humans love cats!


 

offline RussellDust on 2019-01-22 14:35 [#02567540]
Points: 15892 Status: Regular



Welt, would you say that table directly influences you, or
that you’re influenced by the table?


 

offline RussellDust on 2019-01-22 14:36 [#02567541]
Points: 15892 Status: Regular



Welt, would you say that table directly influences you, or
that you’re influenced by the table?


 

offline RussellDust on 2019-01-22 14:37 [#02567542]
Points: 15892 Status: Regular



Sorry!

Tony Danza, is your pineal gland calcified?


 

offline Tony Danza from Fabulous Hollywood on 2019-01-22 15:01 [#02567544]
Points: 3420 Status: Regular | Followup to RussellDust: #02567539



Yeah it's messed up, also there's that cordyceps fungus that
makes ants climb to the top of the nearest tall plant before
it produces a fruiting body to scatter its spores.

The article I linked though is about bacteria that you want
to have in your gut, that every healthy person has. I heard
about one clinical study that showed measurable improvement
in depression by just eating a cup of active culture yogurt
a day. IIRC the really good bacteria to have in your gut is
b. fragilis and it's very hard to inoculate a person with it
by diet. That's why they do poop transplants.


 

offline Tony Danza from Fabulous Hollywood on 2019-01-22 15:02 [#02567545]
Points: 3420 Status: Regular | Followup to RussellDust: #02567542



I had my pineal gland taken out because it kept giving me
visions of the Ogdru Jahad.


 

offline RussellDust on 2019-01-22 15:10 [#02567546]
Points: 15892 Status: Regular



Yeah I’m fully aware of the positive exchange with have
with most of these micro organisms inside us. It’s why I
wonder about “me”, “them”, and “us”. Apparently
if you wanted to carry the bacteria in your gut in a bag it
would weigh 2 kilos. Imagine carrying a crappy plastic bag
with two kilos of bacteria in it! It’s fascinating how the
lesser welcome parasites (who take and give nothing back)
trick our immune system into letting them stay. As for the
outside, most people would freak a bit if they knew what
lived on their eyebrows!

I knew it! I knew you were pineal glandless!


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2019-01-24 03:06 [#02567617]
Points: 23981 Status: Addict



definitive definition ~ the soul of a man is a
living fractal of weasels built on a living fractal of the
living fractals of the weasels of his forefathers.


 

offline welt on 2019-01-24 10:26 [#02567629]
Points: 2035 Status: Lurker | Followup to Tony Danza: #02567538



I was listenting to Blind Willie Johnson's The Soul of a Man
while being overfatigued and finsihing a work project about
new market potenials for businesses dealing with
packaging machine engineering. Then I opened up this
thread. The title and content of the thread were just two
lines from the song. So I didn't choose the word 'soul'
consciously.

But then I thought that there might be some good unconscious
reason for choosing the world soul. Then it got confusing as
I tried to run with it. But even in the post about elephants
I tried to use the word soul in a descriptive rather than
an explanatory sense. I’ll only admit, that I might have
failed in using it in a merely-descriptive manner and that
the boundaries between mere-description and
explanation-via-positing-‚entities‘ are not super-clear.
Be that as it may, however

I think the lack of a clear definition is often a strength
of words/concepts. Sometimes you need precise instruments
like a micro-chip-controlled scalpel, sometimes you need a
rough instrument like a primitive hammer.

So I don’t see why the lack of a clear definition for the
word ‚soul‘ is an objection to it, just like it is no
objection to a hammer that you can’t use it in order to
perform certain types of surgery.

What I’m afraid happens when you go down that path - of
demanding precise definitions per se and not only in
those contexts in which it is useful - is that you
sacrifice connection to the real phenomena of life
for precision. You come up with very precise vocabulary. But
it’s disconnected from the world you actually inhabit.

The connection to the real phenomena of experienced life is
also what makes the threat you have in mind - people using
vaguely defined words differently - controllable. Yes,
words are used differnetly. Because people stress different
aspects of life's basic structure. But still the different
uses are all grounded in the same


 

offline welt on 2019-01-24 10:27 [#02567630]
Points: 2035 Status: Lurker



.. reality and thus understandable.


 

offline Tony Danza from Fabulous Hollywood on 2019-01-24 13:52 [#02567631]
Points: 3420 Status: Regular | Followup to welt: #02567629



you sacrifice connection to the real phenomena of
life


Nope. Surfaces and depths are not contradictory nor
incompatible. Nor are wholes and parts.


 

offline Tony Danza from Fabulous Hollywood on 2019-01-24 14:00 [#02567632]
Points: 3420 Status: Regular | Followup to Tony Danza: #02567631



I mean, you don't sacrifice lebenswelt by looking
below the surface. Deep knowing does not destroy shallow
knowing. Recognizing parts does not annihilate wholes.
They're complementary ways of knowing. You still talk to
your friends, raise a family, dream, and eat lunch.


 


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