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online Hyperflake from Wirral (United Kingdom) on 2018-08-20 08:56 [#02558927]
Points: 22122 Status: Addict



LAZY_TITLE


 

offline welt on 2018-08-20 10:16 [#02558930]
Points: 1893 Status: Lurker



Why would human beings have 2 feet, 2 arms, 2
ovaries/testicles, 2 eyes, 2 nostrils, 2 ears and in general
be so symmetrical? It's quite astonishing. Why are they
symmetrical like the letter "H" and not asymmetrical like,
for instance, the letter "P"?


 

offline Tony Danza from Bright Moon on 2018-08-20 13:07 [#02558935]
Points: 980 Status: Regular | Followup to welt: #02558930



Do you think this is a metaphysical question or one amenable
to empirical investigation?


 

offline welt on 2018-08-20 13:22 [#02558936]
Points: 1893 Status: Lurker | Followup to Tony Danza: #02558935



I'd like ( a ) a metaphysical explanation for the symmetry
of human beings, ( b ) an empirical explanation for it ...
and ( c ) a selection of mystical experiences from
individuals in different civilisations/traditions which
reveal the need for human symmetry.

If the best of all these explanations are compatible with
each other, then I'd consider it an overall good
explanation.

Anything less - very very thin and doubtful


 

offline Tony Danza from Bright Moon on 2018-08-20 13:57 [#02558937]
Points: 980 Status: Regular | Followup to welt: #02558936



It seems to me you'd need a metaphysical explanation for
symmetry, point final, which would be part of a
larger explanation for order in general, then with that
presupposed, an empirical explanation for the specific
example of human symmetry.

As for the mystical experiences, I know a janitor who has
memorized the lyrics to the complete works of Rush and
occasionally smokes "cheeba". I can ask him.


 

online Hyperflake from Wirral (United Kingdom) on 2018-08-20 14:38 [#02558940]
Points: 22122 Status: Addict | Followup to welt: #02558930



redundancy? stability? depth of perception with two eyes
stuff like that, but yeah why 2 and not three or 4, perhaps
its to do with what is most energy efficient, if you have 3
of everything you have a higher chance of injury and fatigue
I guess


 

offline welt on 2018-08-20 19:20 [#02558961]
Points: 1893 Status: Lurker | Followup to Tony Danza: #02558937



Right now I'm not even sure if there could be a
metaphysical explanation of symmetry. I can't even think of
a candidate for an explanation. What could an answer look
like? "Symmetry exists because ..." Because what? "Symmetry
exists because Symmetry is good" ?? "Symmetry exists because
Being as such is symmetrical and thus symmetry trickles down
to mathematical objects and animals" ?? "Symmetry exists
because it pays off to conceptualize objects as symmetrical"
??Well, I guess these are answers of some sort. But what the
fuck.


 

offline mohamed on 2018-08-20 20:05 [#02558965]
Points: 27003 Status: Regular | Show recordbag



Monoid's ipod


 

online Hyperflake from Wirral (United Kingdom) on 2018-08-20 23:41 [#02558984]
Points: 22122 Status: Addict



one bollock big than the other is symmetry breaking


 

offline Tony Danza from Bright Moon on 2018-08-21 15:27 [#02559016]
Points: 980 Status: Regular | Followup to Hyperflake: #02558984



Hyperflake raises an important point - what if symmetry is
only apparent? It's there at first glance, then you look
closer and deeper and find one tit or ball bigger, one
heart, spleen and stomach offset to the left rather than
mirrored, etc.

People perceive symmetrical faces as more attractive, all
else being equal. Gross asymmetry is a flag for damage or
congenital defect. Perhaps there's something to "symmetry
exists because it pays off to conceptualize objects as
symmetrical".


 

offline welt on 2018-08-21 16:52 [#02559023]
Points: 1893 Status: Lurker | Followup to Tony Danza: #02559016



But the concept of "something paying off" already
presupposes the concept of symmetry. Perhaps ..:

What does it mean that something pays off? If cost
and gain are equal then something does not pay off. So if
you express the cost vs gain relationship in charts/diagrams
it means the following: If the cost-column and the
gain-column are equal and symmetrical then something doesn't
pay off. If the gain-column is higher/larger than the
cost-column and there is thus an asymmetrical relationship
something does indeed pay off.

So explaining the fact that we recognise some objects as
(more or less) symmetrical via the concept of something
paying off seems to be circular reasoning. (Because in order
to understand what 'paying off' means you need some sort of
understanding of 'symmetry'.) Is it a vicious circle? I'm
not 100% sure.


 

offline Tony Danza from Bright Moon on 2018-08-21 23:52 [#02559117]
Points: 980 Status: Regular | Followup to welt: #02559023



But lots of things "pay off", not just approximate symmetry
and the ability to recognize it - the smell of food, the
smell of fertile pussy, the capacity to distinguish figure
from ground, the fear of predators, and so.


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2018-08-22 02:22 [#02559124]
Points: 10557 Status: Addict



i prefer this creature


 


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