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what are ur thoughts on (elements of) the main stream medias agitation 4 censorship of alex jones |
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If you drive underground stuff you disagree with it, will have the opposite effect of what you intend |
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every media outlet posts a mixture of truth and bullshit obama once said something like he read a mixture of press to get at the truth uk government going on about "fake news" on facebook are just jealous left wingers who lost the referendum trump going on about "fake news" is pissed off at the total media bias against him anyway alex jones did post bullshit about sandy hook and 9/11 but i forgive him for it most of what he posts these days is standard right wing stuff, nothing controversial, what CNN want is censorship of WASPs. fuck cnn |
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I think the problem in the internet age is that there is an unquantifiable tipping point in popularity between when someone is a loony spouting drivel/someone streaming games for people/vapid self absorbed instagrammer and an actual influence on the lives of a large amount of people. There's a level of responsibility involved with influence but the way that internet fame works does not foster any sense of taking responsibility for ones actions until one is caught in the wrong. It's essential to be as front loaded as possible, reaching as many people as possible at the expense of truth and integrity and then apologise afterwards. Jones chose to use pretty disgusting lies to pander to his base for more clicks and deserves to be shut down. There is the argument that internet celebrities have responsibility thrust upon them thanks to the democratisation of popularity that the internet can bring and as such should be handled differently from, for example, mainstream media outlets. This isn't the case with Jones, he's a fame hungry cunt who knows exactly what he's doing when he screams about the end of the world while selling survival protein shakes. |
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People moan about Trump but what's interesting (kind of) is that it's the liberal left who have taken it as an opportunity to double down on exercising their own brands of policing thought, revisionism, reverse-racism, censorship and authoritarianism. |
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Which is why Trump 2020 isn't a mental idea. |
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womp womp |
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Jobs and wages are up in the US, trump 2020 will happen imo |
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do any of u guys know some1 who listens 2 alex jone seriously? |
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i think banning him was a terrible idea. he's been spammed all over the news ever since -- including sites where i'd normally be safe from being reminded he exists, like . in fact, ars technica nailed it: Booting someone like Jones from Facebook or YouTube altogether could easily turn him into a martyr among his paranoid fans. And policing content for factual accuracy could suck platforms into endless controversies over hot-button political issues. So as unsatisfying as Facebook's approach is, it might be the best of some bad options. so what do we do, then? we let alex jones stay on the tubes, but pull him from the facebook news feed and recommended youtube vids At the same time, downranking fake news in the Newsfeed will produce almost all of the same benefits as banning it outright. Relatively few people are going to browse directly to a particular publisher's page, and the ones who do would probably follow the publisher to another site anyway. So for now, downranking fake news in the Newsfeed is going to be just about as effective a way of fighting fake news as banning it from the platform outright. boom, solved. he can spew to his fans without disruption, and meanwhile, sane people won't be bothered by his crackhead antics on that note -- does alex jones smoke crack? serious question |
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it's not media, but platforms banning him platforms are not neutral, like Facebook said in their defense for years: they had to come back from that hard stuff like cambridge analytica showed the danger with the algorithms of these platforms being exploited and if it's not the algorithms being exploited but also human nature, see: echo chambers. |
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the echo chamber accusation is harder to substantiate than the fraud with camebridge analytica Jones was banned for inciting hatred. i hope, and suspect, YouTube and others are sure that would hold up in a court of law. these platforms are so ubiquitous that should be the case: they shouldn't be allowed to get away with the 'we're a private company' defense, they provide a public good now (and that they're for-profit is where the real problems lie here) |
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heres the thing it WAS the media what do u think the post 2016 fake news narrative was all about? main stream media has a financial and incentive 2 shut down competing outlets....cnn was actively contacting advertisers to agitate 4 them 2 pull advertising from youtube....u can just look at a average bluecheck on twitter to see wut the influencer class has been up 2. its right out in the open |
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okay, yeah, there's where the for-profit thing comes in. see also |
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Freqy |
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absolutely the wrong idea |
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I had a conversation with a medical Doctor years ago - i say that cos u'd expect her to have some brains in her head, wouldn't u - about that Raoul Moat facebook thing - when there were pages up saying 'Raoul u legend' and that. All I was saying was that its not a good idea to censor things cuz its draws attention to them, which is presumably NOT what u want, but all she heard was that I thought 'Raoul moat u legend'. Honestly, it seemed like she couldn't separate me saying that people should be able to say what the like about stuff, with me supporting the things that those people saying. Just sayin there are ppl that fucking stupid out there. This is a kind of meta thing, cos it applies to Facebook etc. AND Alex Jones himself. |
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she got very agitated and walked out of the room, it was bizarre |
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let's ask a couple of questions, to inspire thought and discussion. what if there were beliefs that were so horrifically dangerous and inspired violence on such a scale that by any rational standard we ought to treat the people who hold them as enemies of mankind? should we then treat attempts to spread those beliefs as criminal offenses? if not, why not? should we treat repositories of these ideas (books, digital files, recorded physical media) as dangerous controlled substances? if not, why not? |
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you're presuming people are robots. as convenient as that analogy is, they are not. |
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ok so you seem to be saying, and I'm trying to interpret you charitably, that due to human nature, ideas of the sort I'm postulating cannot exist? |
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(i'm guess I'm conflating idea and belief here - to be clear I'm talking about ideas held strongly, as constituting the foundations of a worldview, rather than ideas idly entertained) |
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massive Streisand effect, if he started conscripting people like brown shirts and advocating for Kristallnacht part 2 fair enough, I just think he wanted to sell some protein powder, I might be wrong and he had a more malign influence that im unaware of, just seems like its added more Creedence to the conspiracies he was espousing. If they had left alone I think cholesterol would take care of him sooner or later anyway |
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what is mankind |
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still seems an utterly bizarre decision for Facebook and Google to make, can't fathom it.. You have to work from the asssumption that they are much cleverer than 'us', and are seeing stuff several moves ahead, but I'm stumped.. |
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Nah actually, there's a load |
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(Never a bad idea to assume your opponent is supremely intelligent tho, keeps u on ur toes...) |
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bottom line with them is share prices so if he is attracting negative attention and its effecting their bottom margin they just pull the plug, I doubt they give much of a shit of what he is actually saying |
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its the banality of evil in a way, they truly are monolith entities, their is no humanity there anymore, in the case of Zuckerberg he seems like a shell of a man, I think he has some vague conception of what its like to be someone with empathy but I think its a foreign feeling for him personally |
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have u heard about the diversity industry??? basically the web of organizations that thru mafia like lawfare tactics extort money from business and corporations as consulting fees and such if they dont hire enuf nonwhites? i wouldnt be surprised if there was a similar type situation going on here.....we already know alex jones/infowars is being sued, ostensibly by sandy hook ppl but who knows whose rly behind the lawsuits he has alot of enemys. maybe they decided 2 threaten the tech platforms with legal action if they didnt shut down alex jones. lawfare is well known as a fav tactic of leftists, such as there lawsuits against gun makers which were so frivolous (intended not to win damages but bog down the companies to a degree there no longer profitable (hilary actually mentioned this strategy in 1 of the 2016 democratic primary debates with bernie)) congress had 2 make a law to stop them from abusing the legal system |
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That's a good point! If you've made it your life's mission to subjugate and dehumanise groups of people on the basis of ethnicity, then of course you'll find words like humanity and mankind ideologically loaded and ripe for deconstruction. I learn, yes. |
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im just trying 2 imagine a idea which is so harmful. presumably its holder is included within mankind.....rite? mankind being all of humanity. or are we talking merely a large enuf majority anyways maybe its best not 2 say such a idea here. if 1 of our fellow xltronic posters heard it he or she might do something rash |
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thread actually is about tho....there list of "offences" is hilarious hopefully the intelligent ppl here can see it 4 what it is....a attempt to get a financial and ideological rival banned |
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did you just do a anyhow I think it's possible to discuss and dissect harmful ideas (like imo white supremacy) without promoting them what do you think could be such a harmful idea, anything that upsets the hierarchy apple cart I guess |
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Media content |
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alex jones made me laugh. alex jones, nazis or even our friend wavephace, everyone should have the right to free speech. |
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oh how did i forget? even fucking mohamed dude, even fucking mohamed |
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Whenever I see Alex Jones I think of a something like a big sweaty rampaging warthog with the mange that has to be taken down with a tranquilizer |
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i dont actually care about alex jones being banned imo they should make it so twitter is aloud 2 ban ppl for any reason or no reason at all and i hope it makes more ppl migrate 2 decentralized/patchwork/self operated platforms and stop using globalist style platforms the ppl talking about making social media sites a utility or social media bill of rights are profoundly misguided on a similar level 2 the pro censorship ppl however i think the mainstream media and journalists trying 2 get him banned and celebrating when it happens its deeply problematic and points 2 a troubling deficiency in the principles 1 would hope theyd uphold they rly are starting 2 look like the enemy of the ppl |
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indeed its a slippery slope, either we have free speech or not, no half measures, who decides what should be allowed to be said or not? Before you know it the people who advocated for his censoring will have their voice taken away, they don't see the irony in what they are proposing |
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take him to court if he is saying some provably libellous or inflammatory but don't allow him not to speak at all |
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If you cant hear the premise of something you don't necessarily agree with how can you come up with a logically sound refutation of the central argument. |
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ideally ppl should just be able to set up there own site and do it that way and for certain things theres decentralized platforms like mastodon but today still streaming lots of video is prohibitively expensive and stuff like you tube never has been profitable and its only propped up by google and venture capital $$$ i wonder wut would happen if dissident right ppl started using archive.org to host there content as far as i can tell they dont have any policy against hate speech and i think they let u upload literally anything as long as its not copyrighted or has a less restrictive license like creative commons. i think if it got traction they would probably cave 2 the inevitable pressure pretty fast tho |
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Its hard to find any website that doesn't have some sort of overly strict moderation with people with vast political biases and hard ons for power. I guess there is probably usergroups for more fringe thinkers or websites like this one that people have mostly forgotten about |
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you'd think that their distrust of these platforms would make them very interested in [unmonetizable] other ones, especially now - i mean - the truth will out, right? It almost seems like its just 4 the $ Definitely think this will mean (relative) surge of interest in decentralised things like InterplanetaryFilesystem etc... |
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Also interesting to remember the vid that got Alex Jones famous - the Bohemian Grove one - WAS actually something that was pretty much dynamite, but he's never topped it. (That and he's actually Bill Hicks longform sketch:)).. I actually quite like him,dunno why. |
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>>>ideally ppl should just be able to set up there own site I reckon that in the future everyone's phone or personal device will be their own server. I can't believe that more ppl don't do that now, absolute control. Obviously it's flakey as fuck and only viable when you have wifi, but I love having my own IRC server in my pocket at least. |
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internet as colonised space |
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colonised by who? people need to start standing up to these jumped up fucking sub - estate agent 'frat bro' leeches infesting the tech industry - they have it coming. |
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