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media
 

offline wavephace from Aspiring Moderator on 2018-08-08 04:51 [#02558051]
Points: 2481 Status: Lurker



what are ur thoughts on (elements of) the main stream
medias agitation 4 censorship of alex jones


 

offline Hyperflake from Wirral (United Kingdom) on 2018-08-08 05:39 [#02558052]
Points: 20789 Status: Regular



If you drive underground stuff you disagree with it, will
have the opposite effect of what you intend


 

offline umbroman3 from United Kingdom on 2018-08-08 10:42 [#02558073]
Points: 2728 Status: Regular



every media outlet posts a mixture of truth and bullshit
obama once said something like he read a mixture of press to
get at the truth

uk government going on about "fake news" on facebook are
just jealous left wingers who lost the referendum

trump going on about "fake news" is pissed off at the total
media bias against him

anyway alex jones did post bullshit about sandy hook and
9/11 but i forgive him for it

most of what he posts these days is standard right wing
stuff, nothing controversial, what CNN want is censorship of
WASPs. fuck cnn


 

offline Indeksical from Phobiazero Damage Control (United Kingdom) on 2018-08-08 11:32 [#02558074]
Points: 9249 Status: Regular | Show recordbag



I think the problem in the internet age is that there is an
unquantifiable tipping point in popularity between when
someone is a loony spouting drivel/someone streaming games
for people/vapid self absorbed instagrammer and an actual
influence on the lives of a large amount of people.

There's a level of responsibility involved with influence
but the way that internet fame works does not foster any
sense of taking responsibility for ones actions until one is
caught in the wrong. It's essential to be as front loaded as
possible, reaching as many people as possible at the expense
of truth and integrity and then apologise afterwards. Jones
chose to use pretty disgusting lies to pander to his base
for more clicks and deserves to be shut down.

There is the argument that internet celebrities have
responsibility thrust upon them thanks to the
democratisation of popularity that the internet can bring
and as such should be handled differently from, for example,
mainstream media outlets. This isn't the case with Jones,
he's a fame hungry cunt who knows exactly what he's doing
when he screams about the end of the world while selling
survival protein shakes.


 

offline SignedUpToLOL from Zuckuss fanfiction (United Kingdom) on 2018-08-08 11:40 [#02558075]
Points: 2853 Status: Regular



People moan about Trump but what's interesting (kind of) is
that it's the liberal left who have taken it as an
opportunity to double down on exercising their own brands of
policing thought, revisionism, reverse-racism, censorship
and authoritarianism.


 

offline SignedUpToLOL from Zuckuss fanfiction (United Kingdom) on 2018-08-08 11:41 [#02558076]
Points: 2853 Status: Regular



Which is why Trump 2020 isn't a mental idea.


 

offline Tony Danza from Triggered Kekistan on 2018-08-08 12:51 [#02558080]
Points: 485 Status: Regular



womp womp


 

offline Indeksical from Phobiazero Damage Control (United Kingdom) on 2018-08-08 15:47 [#02558087]
Points: 9249 Status: Regular | Followup to SignedUpToLOL: #02558076 | Show recordbag



Jobs and wages are up in the US, trump 2020 will happen imo


 

offline wavephace from Aspiring Moderator on 2018-08-08 23:21 [#02558184]
Points: 2481 Status: Lurker



do any of u guys know some1 who listens 2 alex jone
seriously?


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2018-08-09 01:13 [#02558188]
Points: 9934 Status: Regular



i think banning him was a terrible idea. he's been spammed
all over the news ever since -- including sites where i'd
normally be safe from being reminded he exists, like
ars technica.

in fact, ars technica nailed it:

Booting someone like Jones from Facebook or YouTube
altogether could easily turn him into a martyr among his
paranoid fans. And policing content for factual accuracy
could suck platforms into endless controversies over
hot-button political issues. So as unsatisfying as
Facebook's approach is, it might be the best of some bad
options.


so what do we do, then? we let alex jones stay on the
tubes, but pull him from the facebook news feed and
recommended youtube vids

At the same time, downranking fake news in the Newsfeed
will produce almost all of the same benefits as banning it
outright. Relatively few people are going to browse directly
to a particular publisher's page, and the ones who do would
probably follow the publisher to another site anyway. So for
now, downranking fake news in the Newsfeed is going to be
just about as effective a way of fighting fake news as
banning it from the platform outright.


boom, solved. he can spew to his fans without disruption,
and meanwhile, sane people won't be bothered by his
crackhead antics

on that note -- does alex jones smoke crack? serious
question


 

offline big from lsg on 2018-08-09 03:59 [#02558193]
Points: 21645 Status: Regular | Show recordbag



it's not media, but platforms banning him

platforms are not neutral, like Facebook said in their
defense for years: they had to come back from that hard

stuff like cambridge analytica showed the danger with the
algorithms of these platforms being exploited

and if it's not the algorithms being exploited but also
human nature, see: echo chambers.

source one
source two


 

offline big from lsg on 2018-08-09 04:20 [#02558195]
Points: 21645 Status: Regular | Show recordbag



the echo chamber accusation is harder to substantiate than
the fraud with camebridge analytica

Jones was banned for inciting hatred. i hope, and suspect,
YouTube and others are sure that would hold up in a court of
law. these platforms are so ubiquitous that should be the
case: they shouldn't be allowed to get away with the 'we're
a private company' defense, they provide a public good now
(and that they're for-profit is where the real problems lie
here)


 

offline wavephace from Aspiring Moderator on 2018-08-09 05:43 [#02558196]
Points: 2481 Status: Lurker | Followup to big: #02558193



heres the thing it WAS the media what do u think the post
2016 fake news narrative was all about? main stream media
has a financial and political incentive 2 shut down
competing outlets....cnn was actively contacting advertisers
to agitate 4 them 2 pull advertising from youtube....u can
just look at a average bluecheck on twitter to see wut the
influencer class has been up 2. its right out in the open


 

offline big from lsg on 2018-08-09 12:54 [#02558212]
Points: 21645 Status: Regular | Followup to wavephace: #02558196 | Show recordbag



okay, yeah, there's where the for-profit thing comes in.

see also adpocalypse


 

offline umbroman3 from United Kingdom on 2018-08-09 12:57 [#02558214]
Points: 2728 Status: Regular | Followup to wavephace: #02558184



Freqy


 

offline steve mcqueen from caerdydd (United Kingdom) on 2018-08-09 23:39 [#02558319]
Points: 3863 Status: Regular



absolutely the wrong idea


 

offline steve mcqueen from caerdydd (United Kingdom) on 2018-08-09 23:46 [#02558321]
Points: 3863 Status: Regular



I had a conversation with a medical Doctor years ago - i say
that cos u'd expect her to have some brains in her head,
wouldn't u - about that Raoul Moat facebook thing - when
there were pages up saying 'Raoul u legend' and that. All I
was saying was that its not a good idea to censor things cuz
its draws attention to them, which is presumably NOT what u
want, but all she heard was that I thought 'Raoul moat u
legend'. Honestly, it seemed like she couldn't separate me
saying that people should be able to say what the like about
stuff, with me supporting the things that those people
saying. Just sayin there are ppl that fucking stupid out
there.
This is a kind of meta thing, cos it applies to Facebook
etc. AND Alex Jones himself.


 

offline steve mcqueen from caerdydd (United Kingdom) on 2018-08-09 23:54 [#02558322]
Points: 3863 Status: Regular



she got very agitated and walked out of the room, it was
bizarre


 

offline Tony Danza from Triggered Kekistan on 2018-08-10 01:28 [#02558324]
Points: 485 Status: Regular



let's ask a couple of questions, to inspire thought and
discussion.

what if there were beliefs that were so horrifically
dangerous and inspired violence on such a scale that by any
rational standard we ought to treat the people who hold them
as enemies of mankind?

should we then treat attempts to spread those beliefs as
criminal offenses? if not, why not?

should we treat repositories of these ideas (books, digital
files, recorded physical media) as dangerous controlled
substances? if not, why not?


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2018-08-10 01:39 [#02558326]
Points: 9934 Status: Regular | Followup to Tony Danza: #02558324



you're presuming people are robots. as convenient as that
analogy is, they are not.


 

offline Tony Danza from Triggered Kekistan on 2018-08-10 01:54 [#02558327]
Points: 485 Status: Regular | Followup to EpicMegatrax: #02558326



ok so you seem to be saying, and I'm trying to interpret you
charitably, that due to human nature, ideas of the sort I'm
postulating cannot exist?


 

offline Tony Danza from Triggered Kekistan on 2018-08-10 01:56 [#02558328]
Points: 485 Status: Regular



(i'm guess I'm conflating idea and belief here - to be clear
I'm talking about ideas held strongly, as constituting the
foundations of a worldview, rather than ideas idly
entertained)


 

offline Hyperflake from Wirral (United Kingdom) on 2018-08-10 02:40 [#02558329]
Points: 20789 Status: Regular | Followup to steve mcqueen: #02558321



massive Streisand effect, if he started conscripting people
like brown shirts and advocating for Kristallnacht part 2
fair enough, I just think he wanted to sell some protein
powder, I might be wrong and he had a more malign influence
that im unaware of, just seems like its added more Creedence
to the conspiracies he was espousing. If they had left
alone I think cholesterol would take care of him sooner or
later anyway


 

offline wavephace from Aspiring Moderator on 2018-08-10 03:39 [#02558334]
Points: 2481 Status: Lurker | Followup to Tony Danza: #02558324



what is mankind


 

offline steve mcqueen from caerdydd (United Kingdom) on 2018-08-10 03:48 [#02558335]
Points: 3863 Status: Regular



still seems an utterly bizarre decision for Facebook and
Google to make, can't fathom it.. You have to work from the
asssumption that they are much cleverer than 'us', and are
seeing stuff several moves ahead, but I'm stumped..


 

offline steve mcqueen from caerdydd (United Kingdom) on 2018-08-10 03:49 [#02558336]
Points: 3863 Status: Regular



Nah actually, there's a load


 

offline steve mcqueen from caerdydd (United Kingdom) on 2018-08-10 03:51 [#02558337]
Points: 3863 Status: Regular



(Never a bad idea to assume your opponent is supremely
intelligent tho, keeps u on ur toes...)


 

offline Hyperflake from Wirral (United Kingdom) on 2018-08-10 03:57 [#02558338]
Points: 20789 Status: Regular



bottom line with them is share prices so if he is attracting
negative attention and its effecting their bottom margin
they just pull the plug, I doubt they give much of a shit of
what he is actually saying

LAZY_TITLE


 

offline Hyperflake from Wirral (United Kingdom) on 2018-08-10 04:03 [#02558339]
Points: 20789 Status: Regular



its the banality of evil in a way, they truly are monolith
entities, their is no humanity there anymore, in the case of
Zuckerberg he seems like a shell of a man, I think he has
some vague conception of what its like to be someone with
empathy but I think its a foreign feeling for him personally



 

offline wavephace from Aspiring Moderator on 2018-08-10 04:59 [#02558342]
Points: 2481 Status: Lurker | Followup to steve mcqueen: #02558335



have u heard about the diversity industry??? basically the
web of organizations that thru mafia like lawfare tactics
extort money from business and corporations as consulting
fees and such if they dont hire enuf nonwhites? i wouldnt be
surprised if there was a similar type situation going on
here.....we already know alex jones/infowars is being sued,
ostensibly by sandy hook ppl but who knows whose rly behind
the lawsuits he has alot of enemys. maybe they decided 2
threaten the tech platforms with legal action if they didnt
shut down alex jones. lawfare is well known as a fav tactic
of leftists, such as there lawsuits against gun makers which
were so frivolous (intended not to win damages but bog down
the companies to a degree there no longer profitable (hilary
actually mentioned this strategy in 1 of the 2016 democratic
primary debates with bernie)) congress had 2 make a law to
stop them from abusing the legal system


 

offline Tony Danza from Triggered Kekistan on 2018-08-10 11:32 [#02558351]
Points: 485 Status: Regular | Followup to wavephace: #02558334



That's a good point! If you've made it your life's mission
to subjugate and dehumanise groups of people on the basis of
ethnicity, then of course you'll find words like humanity
and mankind ideologically loaded and ripe for
deconstruction.

I learn, yes.


 

offline wavephace from Aspiring Moderator on 2018-08-10 12:31 [#02558358]
Points: 2481 Status: Lurker



im just trying 2 imagine a idea which is so harmful.
presumably its holder is included within mankind.....rite?
mankind being all of humanity. or are we talking merely a
large enuf majority

anyways maybe its best not 2 say such a idea here. if 1 of
our fellow xltronic posters heard it he or she might do
something rash


 

offline wavephace from Aspiring Moderator on 2018-08-10 12:40 [#02558359]
Points: 2481 Status: Lurker



this type of stuf is whut the thread actually is about tho....there list of
"offences" is hilarious

hopefully the intelligent ppl here can see it 4 what it
is....a attempt to get a financial and ideological rival
banned


 

offline Tony Danza from Triggered Kekistan on 2018-08-10 12:45 [#02558362]
Points: 485 Status: Regular | Followup to wavephace: #02558358



did you just do a mister gotcha

anyhow I think it's possible to discuss and dissect harmful
ideas (like imo white supremacy) without promoting them

what do you think could be such a harmful idea, anything
that upsets the hierarchy apple cart I guess


 

offline RussellDust on 2018-08-10 12:49 [#02558363]
Points: 12070 Status: Regular



Media content


 

offline mermaidman from the indian ocean on 2018-08-10 20:21 [#02558372]
Points: 3469 Status: Addict



alex jones made me laugh. alex jones, nazis or even our
friend wavephace, everyone should have the right to free
speech.


 

offline mermaidman from the indian ocean on 2018-08-10 20:37 [#02558373]
Points: 3469 Status: Addict



oh how did i forget? even fucking mohamed dude, even fucking
mohamed


 

offline Hyperflake from Wirral (United Kingdom) on 2018-08-10 22:55 [#02558374]
Points: 20789 Status: Regular



Whenever I see Alex Jones I think of a something like a big
sweaty rampaging warthog with the mange that has to be taken
down with a tranquilizer


 

offline Hyperflake from Wirral (United Kingdom) on 2018-08-11 00:15 [#02558375]
Points: 20789 Status: Regular



LAZY_TITLE


 

offline wavephace from Aspiring Moderator on 2018-08-11 00:52 [#02558376]
Points: 2481 Status: Lurker



i dont actually care about alex jones being banned imo they
should make it so twitter is aloud 2 ban ppl for any reason
or no reason at all and i hope it makes more ppl migrate 2
decentralized/patchwork/self operated platforms and stop
using globalist style platforms the ppl talking about making
social media sites a utility or social media bill of rights
are profoundly misguided on a similar level 2 the pro
censorship ppl

however i think the mainstream media and journalists trying
2 get him banned and celebrating when it happens its deeply
problematic and points 2 a troubling deficiency in the
principles 1 would hope theyd uphold they rly are starting 2
look like the enemy of the ppl


 

offline Hyperflake from Wirral (United Kingdom) on 2018-08-11 01:15 [#02558378]
Points: 20789 Status: Regular | Followup to wavephace: #02558376



indeed its a slippery slope, either we have free speech or
not, no half measures, who decides what should be allowed to
be said or not?

Before you know it the people who advocated for his
censoring will have their voice taken away, they don't see
the irony in what they are proposing


 

offline Hyperflake from Wirral (United Kingdom) on 2018-08-11 01:21 [#02558379]
Points: 20789 Status: Regular



take him to court if he is saying some provably libellous
or inflammatory but don't allow him not to speak at all


 

offline Hyperflake from Wirral (United Kingdom) on 2018-08-11 01:25 [#02558380]
Points: 20789 Status: Regular



If you cant hear the premise of something you don't
necessarily agree with how can you come up with a logically
sound refutation of the central argument.


 

offline wavephace from Aspiring Moderator on 2018-08-11 02:14 [#02558393]
Points: 2481 Status: Lurker



ideally ppl should just be able to set up there own site and
do it that way and for certain things theres decentralized
platforms like mastodon but today still streaming lots of
video is prohibitively expensive and stuff like you tube
never has been profitable and its only propped up by google
and venture capital $$$

i wonder wut would happen if dissident right ppl started
using archive.org to host there content as far as i can tell
they dont have any policy against hate speech and i think
they let u upload literally anything as long as its not
copyrighted or has a less restrictive license like creative
commons. i think if it got traction they would probably cave
2 the inevitable pressure pretty fast tho


 

offline Hyperflake from Wirral (United Kingdom) on 2018-08-11 02:22 [#02558395]
Points: 20789 Status: Regular | Followup to wavephace: #02558393



Its hard to find any website that doesn't have some sort of
overly strict moderation with people with vast political
biases and hard ons for power. I guess there is probably
usergroups for more fringe thinkers or websites like this
one that people have mostly forgotten about


 

offline steve mcqueen from caerdydd (United Kingdom) on 2018-08-15 23:06 [#02558653]
Points: 3863 Status: Regular



you'd think that their distrust of these platforms would
make them very interested in [unmonetizable] other ones,
especially now - i mean - the truth will out, right? It
almost seems like its just 4 the $
Definitely think this will mean (relative) surge of interest
in decentralised things like InterplanetaryFilesystem etc...


 

offline steve mcqueen from caerdydd (United Kingdom) on 2018-08-15 23:11 [#02558655]
Points: 3863 Status: Regular



Also interesting to remember the vid that got Alex Jones
famous - the Bohemian Grove one - WAS actually something
that was pretty much dynamite, but he's never topped it.
(That and he's actually Bill Hicks longform sketch:)).. I
actually quite like him,dunno why.


 

offline steve mcqueen from caerdydd (United Kingdom) on 2018-08-15 23:19 [#02558656]
Points: 3863 Status: Regular | Followup to wavephace: #02558393



>>>ideally ppl should just be able to set up there own site
I reckon that in the future everyone's phone or personal
device will be their own server. I can't believe that more
ppl don't do that now, absolute control. Obviously it's
flakey as fuck and only viable when you have wifi, but I
love having my own IRC server in my pocket at least.


 

offline wavephace from Aspiring Moderator on 2018-09-07 00:19 [#02560657]
Points: 2481 Status: Lurker



internet as colonised space


 

offline steve mcqueen from caerdydd (United Kingdom) on 2018-09-07 19:21 [#02560690]
Points: 3863 Status: Regular



colonised by who?
people need to start standing up to these jumped up fucking
sub - estate agent 'frat bro' leeches infesting the tech
industry - they have it coming.


 


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