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So i watched this mindblowing important and great made documentary on netflix called cowspiracy, just a couple a days ago. After that i decided to stop eating meat, fish, egg and stop drinking milk, because its not really sustainable even for us humans to eat animals anymore, it destroys the planet. Its about the agriculture and how they must feed the animals crazy amount of food and drink crazy amount of water for us human being able to eat them. Agriculture is the number one global climate polluter with 51% compared to transportation exhaust 13% of all greenhouse gas emissions. Also agriculture destroys the rain forest and human fishing drains the oceans of fishes. I have tried cooking some vegan food and i could not taste much diffrens from meat, its very similar seems more expensive though. But i guess the more that eat vegan the price goes down. I tried some food mostly made from soy to replace the meat. I tried Oat milk to replace milk, tastes good. Bought oat cream and oat yoghurt. Cheese made with coconut milk tasted great not much diffrens. So its really unnecessarily for us human to eat animals and drink their milk. It is not a difficult sacrifice to give up meat and milk. And i havent even mentioned that it would save the unnecessary killing, captivety off animals and how they get mistreated. |
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Heres some clip from the documantary to sum it up Heres some facts copied from the cowspiracy.com site Livestock and their byproducts account for at least 32,000 million tons of carbon dioxide (CO2) per year, or 51% of all worldwide greenhouse gas emissions. Even without fossil fuels, we will exceed our 565 gigatonnes CO2e limit by 2030, all from raising animals. Agriculture is responsible for 80-90% of US water consumption. Growing feed crops for livestock consumes 56% of water in the US. 2,500 gallons of water are needed to produce 1 pound of beef. 1 gallon= 3,7 liter 477 gallons of water are required to produce 1lb. of eggs; almost 900 gallons of water are needed for 1lb. of cheese. Livestock covers 45% of the earth’s total land. Cows produce 150 billion gallons of methane per day. Methane is 25-100 times more destructive than CO2 on a 20 year time frame. 82% of starving children live in countries where food is fed to animals, and the animals are eaten by western countries. 15x more protein on any given area of land with plants, rather than animals Dairy consumption may leads to breast lumps. Dairy may “give guys man-boobs” lol 1.5 acres can produce 37,000 pounds of plant-based food. 1.5 acres can produce 375 pounds of meat. Every minute, 7 million pounds of excrement are produced by animals raised for food in the US. A farm with 2,500 dairy cows produces the same amount of waste as a city |
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A farm with 2,500 dairy cows produces the same amount of waste as a city of 411,000 people. 130 times more animal waste than human waste is produced in the US – 1.4 billion tons from the meat industry annually. 5 tons of animal waste is produced per person in the us. 3/4 of the world’s fisheries are exploited or depleted. We could see fishless oceans by 2048. For every 1 pound of fish caught, up to 5 pounds of unintended marine species are caught and discarded as by-kill. As many as 40% (63 billion pounds) of fish caught globally every year are discarded. Animal agriculture is responsible for up to 91% of Amazon destruction. The leading causes of rainforest destruction are livestock and feedcrops. Ten thousand years ago, 99% of biomass (i.e. zoomass) was wild animals. Today, humans and the animals that we raise as food make up 98% of the zoomass. World population in 1812: 1 billion; 1912: 1.5 billion; 2012: 7 billion. Land required to feed 1 person for 1 year: Vegan: 1/6th acre Vegetarian: 3x as much as a vegan Meat Eater: 18x as much as a vegan Each day, a person who eats a vegan diet saves 1,100 gallons of water, 45 pounds of grain, 30 sq ft of forested land, 20 lbs CO2 equivalent, and one animal’s life. |
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After that i decided to stop eating meat, fish, egg and stop drinking milk, because its not really sustainable even for us humans to eat animals anymore, it destroys the planet. If you really cared you would kill yourself |
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I guess what I mean is, what happens when everyone stops eating meat in your perfect totalitarian society and the population growth continues to 20 billion? Stop eating vegetables and get all your nutrition from soylent? |
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I recommend this doc for fans of McDonald's, especially from the U.S: - it's similar to what yoyoyo has posted I'm not all pro-veggie but I eat less meat than I used to. Any extremes are always unhealthy, diet should be adjusted to one's specific needs, right ? E.g. lumbermen/woodmen need lots of energetic food and I don't think many of them are vegans. I hope I'm wrong though. |
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seen this.. nice one, yoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyo : ) |
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Will have to give it a watch, sounds good. It probably won't change my outlook in any way. I'm well aware that everything I consume is tainted by some earth damaging unethical process. I'm a terrible hypocritical human, who even eats KFC and Macdonalds from time to time. |
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Awareness is good Portnoy. If you watch the film you will see that even the top environmental organisations refuse to be aware. You are ahead of them even though you are hypocritical, lol: P |
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we (meaning large mammals) will be mostly extinct within 75 years it's been a good run, too bad we developed agriculture, the |
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I suggest you whatch the documantary and read the facts i posted. If we got to 20 billion people and still eat the massproduced meat the way we do today we are fucked. Why would we stop eating vegetables if we got to 20 billion? you make no sense there. Agriculture (the meat industry) cause 51% of the global warming transportation exhaust only 13%. Plants is way more effective to feed us . And vegan food can taste the same as meat so eating meat is really unnecessary, meat taste nothing really until you flavour it with salt and pepper. They have replica soy stuff to look like meat susages and hamburgers i could not taste much difference if any. Also meat industry destroys the rainforest that can be compared to the earths lungs. Why would you want to live in an even more fucked up world with unbearable climate heat, and more natural disasters that would lead to more world hunger and more refuges to the western countries.? I guess you are scared of change or just very stupid. After whatching the documantary its a no brainer to me to go vegan. Facts again 1.5 acres can produce 37,000 pounds of plant-based food. 1.5 acres can produce 375 pounds of meat. |
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In the documantary they said you could live a perfectly healthy life with vegan diet and raise even perfectly healthy vegan children. And he who said that was vegan and ran long distance runs,almost every day i think.You can even be an athlete and be vegan. Also i should add that you may need to eat some vitamins when going vegan. You'll need a B12 supplement …And maybe an iron and D supplement, too The healthiest sources of soy are miso, tempeh, tofu, soy milk, and edamame. Some links |
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i like knowing that things died for me to enjoy my meal. if the planet is dying too, that's like a delicious spice |
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i mostly eat biscuits |
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Oh the planet will probably survive not the humans. |
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Why would you want to live in an even more fucked up world with unbearable climate heat, and more natural disasters that would lead to more world hunger and more refuges to the western countries.? I guess you are scared of change or just very stupid. After whatching the documantary its a no brainer to me to go vegan. It's like taking blood pressure medication for hypertension and ignoring the fact that you're still a chain smoker eating a high sodium diet. It's an empty gesture to make you feel better. Same with focusing on CO2 emissions: it's something that people feel they can control, to cover up the fact that a) forces are at work that are out of our control and b) climate will change with or without humans. Also the narrative that humans must be a destructive force is wrong. Humans can be accelerants for the biosphere, can replace topsoil and promote diversity of species, however industrial societies are not set up that way. So, if you were here advocating for permaculture or something I could go along with that, but change doesn't happen by sitting around on the internet or watching netflix docus and then deciding to stop eating meat. Eating meat is not the problem. |
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Great decision.I've been a veggie for 15 years now. Don't miss eating meat at all. I do drink milk and eat eggs just because it's a product of living beings. I haven't seen this documentary but there are a lot of docs out there that will make you aware of animal abuse around the world. |
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forgot to mention the maximum inhumanity of factory farming. the sheer, lifelong torture endured by my meals is also a key ingredient |
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Lemmy has died, and along with him we have lost any hope for animal rights and the cleanup of the pacific garbage hunch. RIP Lemmy RIP Gaea |
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I dont agree with you that stoping eating meat wouldent help. If every human in the world became vegan and we put the animals back in the free doing there natural stuff and we stoped destroying the rainforest for meat agriculture the planet would start to self heal and the rainforest would grow back. And does this fact feel good at the same time they advice people in california to save water,and have droughts . Agriculture is responsible for 80-90% of US water consumption. |
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Being vegetarian is also great. One thing on milk that they said in the documentary that got to me was that cow milk is not really for humans but for baby cows so they can grow big and strong as fast as possible. I dont want to take that from them anymore. Also i dont like these facts. 1,000 gallons of water are required to produce 1 gallon of milk On egg 477 gallons of water are required to produce 1lb. of eggs; almost 900 gallons of water are needed for 1lb. of cheese. Livestock covers 45% of the earth’s total land. |
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freqy: you speaks the truth of awareness. Portnoy: i hope you watch and report back. |
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Also yes you brought up another very good reason for going vegetarian or vegan that of saving animals from cruelty. Also it feels pretty good knowing i wont contribute to the killings of animal anymore. |
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hey axion, I watched about 30 mins before sleep last night. I'll have to watch the rest later and give you a proper opinion but I must say I wasn't impressed. It's a very standard, one sided, biased presentation. He's trying to appeal to our emotions with scary "facts" and conclusions. Too many conclusions, too little supporting arguments. I was really sauced though so I must give it a good sober watch too. This documentary format is so old and tired. I think I get what mapzee is saying in here, we should just kill ourselves because were are all implicated in the great global fuckfest. It irked me that he was openly using his macbook. His concern for the planet is too selective. How I understand this implied reasoning is" Okay, there are many evils and things that damage people, animals, the earth etc.. let's just focus on what I perceive to be the the greatest threat, we can just let those other evils lie, as long as we get this one out of the way, things will be okay. It's too neat, too simple, too ideal. And shit, I love meat. I'm much too ignorant to contribute to the argument. I must also add that he may be giving us some solid facts here and we should take heed. I just wish it was presented better. It's all propaganda, even if it's trying to teach us something useful. I'll watch the rest later. |
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Maybe i should have called this thread (stop eating meat save the humans) because its the humans i am concerned of. I think the planet will survive the humans. So if we all killed ourself we would have failed. I just want us to have a smooth ride as possible in life without more problems that the global warming can cause and do the right things. |
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I don't eat birds, or mammals, but I eat fish (coz they don't have any feelings). They probably do have feelings. Bless. |
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Thats great. Then you are very animal and co2 freindly. The problem with fishing seems to be that they over fish and many unwanted fish gets caught in the net. And fish species are at risk of going extinct. I dont know what would happen to the planets eco system if the oceans became fishless, i have a feeling that it would be very bad. Facts on the ocean from cowspiracy.com 3/4 of the world’s fisheries are exploited or depleted. We could see fishless oceans by 2048. 90-100 million tons of fish are pulled from our oceans each year. As many as 2.7 trillion animals are pulled from the ocean each year. For every 1 pound of fish caught, up to 5 pounds of unintended marine species are caught and discarded as by-kill. As many as 40% (63 billion pounds) of fish caught globally every year are discarded. Scientists estimate as many as 650,000 whales, dolphins and seals are killed every year by fishing vessels. Fish catch peaks at 85 million tons. 40-50 million sharks killed in fishing lines and nets. |
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I found two great links, both great reads. One with the answer what could happen with no fish by 2048 in the oceans. This seems true and logical about if everyone got vegan, so i agree with everything. Could fix so many problems mankind is dealing with. For the lazy i copied some of the text of what could happen with no fish in the ocean, its better to read the whole link though. Everything in the ocean plays a vital role – think of it like the greatest balancing act ever, and everything involved depends on everything else to stay in sync. Human beings are the proverbial brick in the washing machine, if you will. Species in the ocean play a vital role in our own survival; among their accidental benefits to human life is filtering toxins from the ocean and controlling algae blooms, which if left uncontrolled by nature, can have disastrous effects. “A large and increasing proportion of our population lives close to the coast,” said Worm. “The loss of services such as flood control and waste detoxification can have disastrous consequences.” As creatures that walk on land, we need the ocean pretty damn badly. But, “if biodiversity continues to decline,” says Beaumont, “the marine environment will not be able to sustain our way of life. Indeed, it may not be able to sustain our lives at all.” |
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Damnit yoyo why you making me read. There's a lot here but here is one example of dishonesty… "We could see fishless oceans by 2048" I'm not going to register for Science Mag now so I can't speak for that article, but the Natgeo article says "in 30 years there will be little or no seafood available for sustainable harvest" Big difference. The ocean is pretty damn large and I'm no fishpert but somehow I doubt it will be fishless by 2048!! (that being said commercial fishing is indeed out of control and needs to be curbed!) "Animal agriculture is responsible for up to 91% of Amazon destruction." That is such a sneaky sentence! It can be interpreted as 91% of the entire amazon has been destroyed by Animal agriculture Or 91% of the total destruction of the amazon has been destroyed by animal agriculture. "Assuming (a little exaggeratedly) that fallow areas are utilized basically for seasonal livestock rotation, pastures could account for the occupation of up to 88 percent of the deforested areas. Compared with 1970, 91 percent of the increment of the cleared area has been converted to cattle ranching." That is more clear! Just two examples here. However, I do believe (based on hearsay, I have not done any research) that animal husbandry of course has a negative impact on the environment. I would however prefer not eradicate this age old practice entirely. I was actually speaking to two environmental impact assessors the other night and they pretty much agree with a lot of these findings. They both said as far as emissions go though there are some more serious aggressors than animal farming, but of course that is what these guys are trying to debunk in the documentary (right?) . We didn't go too deeply into it, I just left it there but one of them (who is vegan) was more adamant about the negative effects, mostly from its effects on the land than the air. Just to reiterate I believe that Animal Husbandry has a negative on our planet etc.. |
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I don't believe however that getting rid of it altogether and growing soy beans instead will solve the problem either. |
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Alright you are entitled to your opinions. One other factor to consider though with getting rid of animal agriculture would be that it would maybe make humans less evil. Text copied from if everyone went vegan link "People will become healthier emotionally and spiritually, also, as they cause and eat less misery, and our culture, as its level of violence decreases, will become healthier as well. There is no action more powerful anyone can take to subvert the dominant paradigm of exploitation and inequality than to shift to a plant-based diet for ethical reasons. By going vegan, and spreading the vegan message creatively, we take the most effective action to create a world where peace, abundance, sustainability, freedom, and universal joy are not just possible but natural. I think there is some truth in there. If we was to teach our kids not to even kill animals then they would be less likely to kill humans also. And doesent most pshycopaths start killing animals before thay start killing humans. Did you finish watching the documentary? |
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Sorry some blankspaces was missing and a ". I post again. Alright you are entitled to your opinions. One other factor to consider though with getting rid of animal agriculture would be that it would maybe make humans less evil. Text copied from if everyone went vegan link "People will become healthier emotionally and spiritually, also, as they cause and eat less misery, and our culture, as its level of violence decreases, will become healthier as well. There is no action more powerful anyone can take to subvert the dominant paradigm of exploitation and inequality than to shift to a plant-based diet for ethical reasons. By going vegan, and spreading the vegan message creatively, we take the most effective action to create a world where peace, abundance, sustainability, freedom, and universal joy are not just possible but natural." I think there is some truth in there. If we was to teach our kids not to even kill animals then they would be less likely to kill humans also. And doesent most pshycopaths start killing animals before thay start killing humans. Did you finish watching the documentary? |
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Nope, not yet. I will make a point of it though, probably tomorrow or the day after. I'm also going to educate myself a little more. I feel like I have homework now. I hope you understand I have no hard feelings here and respect your decision to go vegan. I especially respect the discipline. What you're proposing here is a serious paradigm shift. I think this lifestyle may be easier in Sweden but I live in Africa man, things aren't as simple here. ps Your last copy there is complete conjecture. Nobody really knows what kind emotional impact it may have on people. I've heard a lot of vegetarians talk about how much lighter they feel, more energy etc. This could account for the emotional lift but it's still a stretch imo |
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Also about other polutions like from the transportation sector i do wish the vehicles all vent electrical, as soon as possible. |
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Yeah people can probebly still be psychopaths no matter what. Oh from africa. I thought you might could have been padraig from ireland who i had been chated with back in the days. What do you think about this fact concerning africa being poor and have many starving? 82% of starving children live in countries where food is fed to animals, and the animals are eaten by western countries. |
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PORICK? Really? Do I sound like him. He was very angry all the time. I hope I don't sound angry. I'm not angry :) Maybe sometimes. He was quite clued up though. It's no secret that the majority of starving children live in Africa, yes. And a lot of those economies rely on exports, be it meat production, or whatever. The state of affairs in Africa can be traced back to modernism, colonialism, and everything that has happened since independence. There are many political, sociological, environmental etc etc factors to keep in mind. Mismanagement of resources I'd say being a very significant contributing factor. Your "fact" implies that meat production contributes to starvation in Africa. Perhaps but there are certainly a hell of a lot of other things to consider too. But I don't want to be the xlt Africa correspondent, just because I live here, doesn't make me an expert by any means. I'm off to get hammered now. Have have a happy meat free new years yoyoyoyoyo. See you in the new year. |
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I dig what you say Happy new year yo |
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I'll consider that, thanks |
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this is a bit silly, but if we ate much more meat there would be less gaseous cows around to pollute the atmosphere |
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It is silly! Unless man stopped exploiting them, people stopped eating them, or if cows all sunddenly became infertile. Reintroduce the wolves and other predators, er, Donald! |
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I wonder how efficient it will be to create synthetic meat in the future, if its made in a vat surely it would be better for everyone involved |
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What? I'd eat cloned steak. Grow it in a big environmentally friendly vat. It's real food. |
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🍖 🍖 🍖 🍖 🍖 🍖 🍖 🍖 🍖 🍖 🍖 🍖 🍖 🍖 🍖 🍖 🍖 🍖 🍖 🍖 🍖 🍖 🍖 🍖 🍖 🍖 🍖 🍖 🍖 🍖 🍖 🍖 🍖 🍖 🍖 🍖 🍖 |
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I eat pot noodles sometimes and those are a bit of a scientific aberration |
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Richard Dumpkins has an interesting hypothesis about pain (the intentional causing of which can be defined as immorality, even though immorality has become a major ingredient of life on earth due to predator/prey relationships). He said it might not necessarily be that more intelligent beings (humans, dolphins, octopus, etc) feel more pain than less sophisticated ones; it might be the reverse. Because evolutionarily the purpose of pain is to prevent a behavior that could lead to death or an inability to reproduce, and therefore a stupider being might need a stronger pain warning than a smarter one. That's kind of a bad concept because pain is already pretty damn bad for humans, but it might be much worse for an ant or something. You might have tons and tons of biomass just agonizing in acute hyperpain constantly. |
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let's test dumpkins with the gom jabbar |
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My goodness you can say meaningful stuff once in a while! <3 |
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