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IMO this whole swamp can be sidestepped by taking a Spinozistic approach where you very consciously and deliberately naturalize and lobotomize God and swallow it whole. That is modernity in a nutshell. I think it’s easy to overlook to what extent our contemporary worldview is informed by modernity. But just because it seems self-evident to us today, doesn’t mean it always was! But again, then, why call it God? Why not call it all-that-is or nature-writ-large or the ultimate or de rerum natura? I think there's something dishonest and misleading about calling it God because that word drags an awful lot of baggage over and above Plato's sun. I really get a strong whiff of bait and switch from this move. One minute you're agreeing to call this bundle of impersonal metaphysics God, because why not, it's just a word, and the next minute you're being hassled to wear special underwear. Nature-writ-large doesn't give two shits about your underwear or what's in them. God as something people actively believe in, certainly does take an interest in your willy or hooha. Well, yes, there is a bait and switch, but it works both ways. Ok, so you decide to call ‘it’ Nature and while you’re free to wear whatever kind of underwear you please, you suddenly have to change your lightbulbs, shower head, eat locally grown produce and if at all possible exclude meat from your diet (refer to Monoid’s list of complaints). It’s essentially the same thing. The most obvious difference is that instead of a paternal authority imposing its explicit moral code, today we have a maternal counterpart imposing its moral code implicitly through the appearance of permissiveness, but doubling up as a guilt trip. “Free speech” which really means self-censorship, and so on. (Cf., ) |
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And we shouldn’t be misled by attempts to dress it up in scientific jargon either because this obscures the fact that a) science proceeds via negative evidence (i.e., it eliminates hypotheses, it cannot validate them) and b) its application is motivated by a set of values, that although modern and seemingly self-evident, nonetheless conceal an essentially arbitrary moral imperative. Perhaps it is misleading calling ‘it’ God, but not calling ‘it’ God doesn’t make the baggage disappear, it just repackages it in a different form. Pretending there is no baggage today is just as dishonest and misleading. The sense of freedom associated with the enlightenment derived in large part from the dogmas and institutions it liberated itself from. But what happens when the job is done? When God is dead? (Nietzsche wasn’t the first to remark on the dramatic secularisation that took place during the mid 19th Century). What then? |
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And again, I find it hard to believe that the view of God before this nominalist strain of thought was a God who wasn't voluntary. That to me is simply nature. And it conflicts with just about every idea from actual scripture and tradition, where God is active and judges and prefers and evaluates. I mean, Allah and Yahweh in their raw, unsophisticated form - unpolished by centuries of apologetics and language lawyering - are so different from the "philosopher's god" that it's deceptive to conflate them. Voluntarism has a specific meaning in this context. It means that God’s will is beyond reason, he can violate the principle of contradiction and so on. That is quite a contrast from the Scholastic view of God as divine intellect, the creator and principle of the universe in harmony with reason. This has a dramatic effect on how one interprets scripture and which stories you choose to emphasise ... and more importantly, how the Church fits into the picture. Islam went through a similar during the 11th century. |
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But then why would you be arguing about the truth of the matter? If I had a nickel for every time someone pulled that trope on me I'd have... a couple of candy bars, at least. Golf zealot (#354 that week): Golf is truth! Golf is the best! me: maybe not... Golf zealot: oh yeah, then why are you so eager to argue about it? At least most of them aren't driving little exploding golf carts into buildings... False analogy. The point is not whether or not to argue about it, but what you are arguing about? If it is the truth, then you’re ultimately caught up in the same game. If one responds by saying “you’re wrong” you play into their hands b/c you can ultimately only make your point by becoming a zealot yourself (Cf., Richard Dawkins). If one responds by saying “I prefer the Flute” you’re not playing the same game b/c you’re basically making a judgment about taste. In a postmodern world it is all just a matter of taste, so on that assumption, why would you be arguing about the truth of the matter? |
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Monoid, you might enjoy some of these videos: , and |
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Neitzsche was also repackaged by a nationalist relative and imo, one of the most misunderstood philosophers. |
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I wouldn't bet on that |
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... and anti-semitic to boot. Förster became a leading figure in the anti-Semitic faction on the far right of German politics and wrote on the Jewish question, characterizing Jews as constituting a "parasite on the German body”. ... He left Germany in 1886 to emigrate to Paraguay and the following year he set up a colony known as "Nueva Germania". However, as this initiative was a failure, he eventually committed suicide by poisoning himself with a combination of morphine and strychnine in his room at the Hotel del Lago in San Bernardino, Paraguay on June 3, 1889. |
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i bet nobody contributing this thread do |
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I dunno if Nietzsche was an anti-semite. Besides that, i find his philosophy troubling. It is simply nothing i would agree with, cause it goes against reason, naturalism, and individualism, things such modern thinkers like Locke, Bacon & Descartes believed in. It seems, i just don't like german philosophy. |
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ive read some of his stuff and he just comes across as a humourless git |
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what makes you so sure the world is rational ? |
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Man is a rational being, the advancement of scientific knowledge wouldn't have been possible, if scientists didn't practice practical rationality and objectivity. |
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I wouldn't bet on that either |
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you mean would ? |
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a follow-up to mo that was |
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that much was obvious. |
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sorry for the distraction, please continue with your lecture sir |
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has a consensus been reached on this issue yet? i'm firmly in the neigh, no i dont like it camp, but im still not sure what its all about |
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it's a name, a genre. None of 'them' probably agree anyway. Just think about the etymology. |
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Yeah i mean the word itself is nonsensical to me as modern isnt a static term, well the way i usually mean it, im being a bit pedantic, i didnt realise there were so many people with a philosophical bent on this forum, quite enlightening really |
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Richard Dawkins gave me this advice on twitter I attacked him with postmodern philosophy to find out what he had to say. Sadly i got no response. |
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Do you go to Aphextwin.nu on slsk? |
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"are afraid of sex" I thought that was right down your alley! |
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Up, down, diagonal... |
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no i used soulseek though, but only for stuff i cant afford |
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postmodernism sucks the life out of everything |
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using words to explain things has a tendency to free-run |
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