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 Now online (1)dariusgriffin ...and 213 guests Last 5 registered Oplandisks nothingstar N_loop yipe foxtrotromeo Browse members... |
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Are they compatible? I think not. Religions rely on revelation while science relies on observable, repeatable experiences and ONTOLOGICAL NATURALISM. Naturalism and supernaturalism are incompatible! |
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They are compatible. Nice to see you, Monoid. |
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What other options are there? |
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Both camps talk far too much. |
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i am about to get ready to go to work. how about having a poke around the 1st link and i'll peak in a bit later. click "topics" on the menu bar on the left. |
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scientology - both religion and science. |
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religion relies on faith science relies on observation of measurable facts in modern physics, especially in the very big and very small domains, nothing is really measurable. There's Heisenberg theorem for very small and deep space hubble telescope imagery for very big scenarios as examples of this indetermination. That's where human free will come into place, you can be good or bad. That's the inner teaching of religion belief systems, they teach you why you should be good, trough stories, methaphors and simple laws of conduct. As far as I know most of great scientists believe in god in some sort of another. Faith is a personal matter anyways, I don't think forcing someone into believe makes a true believer. Salamaleikum |
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Nothing is really measurable, I agree with this, but this doesn't change anything. A scientific theory, even if it is well verfied, can never be 100% true. Religion and moral (and theory of moral - Ethic) have nothing to do with each other |
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yes they have, infact religion is all about morals |
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I don't know what kind of site is this? "that it takes at least as much faith to believe in the theory of evolution as in creation by a supernatural God "And in reality, evolution has more characteristics of a “myth” than of a scientific theory." This is a bit laughable, dont you think? |
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science wins by k.o. |
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The fundamental problem of a supernatural morality was pin-pointed by Plato. Is a moral quality right intrinsically (than we have a moral standard that was NOT created by god, but someone else) or is it right because a supernatural being has declared or commanded it to be right. Is the Christian god 'good' because he declared himself to be "good"? |
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american people believing god magically created the universe 6000 years ago obviously are silly people |
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The goal of the ID and creationist movement is to destroy science and progress and to establish a theocracy. They are the al-qaida of the western world. |
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Looking from my position science is truth, religion is not. Some people thing science and religion can coexist together. I think great example would be Ph.D Francis Collins. |
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everything is good when there are morals there, you cant deny that religion shapes a lot of this but it sure gets crazy sometimes. Just because some are clever enough to see how best to be a good person do'snt mean that everyone is there. some still need leaders i think |
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science wont teach morals tho |
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No. But philosophy will. The philosophical ethic is a lot older than the christian ethic. |
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ok, we're about talking western religions. I think the good attitude points towards thriving of life so it is innate in our behaviour (most of us anyways). God didn't declared himself good, in the christian vision he set the rules of the universe, going against these rules brings to unhappiness, and ultimately to damnation. Science might have done good for a whole good lot of people on this planet, still there are some that suffer terrible pains because of the unbalances brought by globalization. As a a matter of fact the whole planet is suffering. |
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I think religion could be good, and also could be bad. It depends on ones ability to extract and adapt good information about moral social life, at the same time leaving behind ignorance incoherent with sience. |
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what about measuring religions? |
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The vatican has a chief astronomer who recently claimed intelligent beings created by "god" could exist in outer space. |
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you cant prove or disprove something immaterial by looking at and testing material things. |
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Well, to be clear, religion is a primitive philosophy, while science is a method of recording and analyzing information. However, no, religion, and the ideology one requires to follow religion, are both completely inconsistent with science. A scientist is one who refuses to take an understanding to something on faith - he knows he must learn of the nature of that something through logic. A scientist contributes one of the most important aspects to human survival, while religion contributes the most destructive idea to human survival. A scientist contributes knowledge, while a mystic contributes altruism, subjective realities, and lies propagated through faith and coercion. |
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A scientist contributes one of the most important aspects to human survival |
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A scientist does not build; a scientist discovers. The person responsible for the atom bomb's creation was not a scientist - only the knowledge utilized was the work of the scientist. And the funding? That was made possible by government - an entity of society that has no role in the life of a scientist. So ask yourself why all those people died in Japan. Was it because a scientist was able to discover nuclear fission? Or was it because a non-scientist utilized the knowledge of nuclear fission to be destructive and careless with human life? |
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I think religion serves a purpose. Even throughout history, for better or for worse, it has helped mold who we are in society. I was raised christian and do not regret it, though my current belief system is far from it. Religion should enforce morals, however most often then not, it becomes an excuse to condemn people which eventually leads to dire consequences. I think faith in itself is a good thing, but when it dictates your every move it can become dangerous. I think the real issue with the compatibility of religion vs science is that both seem to have a hatred of each other and can't seem to let the other co-exist peacefully, that and the fact that both generally tend to be extremely hypocritical. I cannot stand how believers and non-believers attack each other. In a perfect world it shouldn't matter whatever belief (or lack thereof) gets someone through their life. I really dislike how some non believers hypocritically accuse believers of force feeding their own thought process to the masses, when they themselves get angry when the believer won't give up on their "ridiculous" religion. I also really dislike how a number of christians condemn non-believers when their very own dogma states that they shouldn't judge others. I guess the point is, until both sides feel the need to stop ridiculing each other, compatibility is not possible. |
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Science is useless because you can't use it to pray for things instead of getting them yourself. |
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I still can't believe Truman opted to murder thousands of people by the means of searing pain, rather than take military action and send troops to Japan. I mean they could have dropped a bomb somewhere off the coast of Japan to scare them. |
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want to be pragmatic? who said that destruction is harmful for human survival? certainly not me, your justifications did. they read to me as if your concept of knowledge were not that crystal clear. puppet-scientist or primitive-mystic? posting a moral against scientist having a moral = quadruple nipples drama. |
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Oh, look, Thank God for the Atom Bomb by Paul Fussell is . I recommend it highly. |
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that's horrible. You do know that a soldier signs up for the duty to give his life for his country, and to explain the genocidal use of a nuclear bomb, is far from justifiable in that regard at all. Why did we need to kill people in order to show the strength of a nuclear bomb? Like i said, a bomb off the coast in the water would have done the job as well. |
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to explain away* |
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philosophy has to b schooled to people; there are so many ways to interpret these things. philosophy needs faith to catch on i guess. its natural. philosophy it is all just down to who teaches it. religion gets bad because it is taught by bad controllers same as it is bad when a child has parents with awful feelings. when religion is taught by a person who is good and does not encourage too much of all that spooky 'faith' then its not so bad. Not everyone is smart or independant many need leeders to help them understand love and jealousy and when feeling very angry or completely lost/near death. i think most of us can say that we do not know how best to deal with these. science will not help us with this. philosophy teaches us about life but people want to communicate and cooperate. they share the philosophy and all become freinds in there mission to do the right thing - a group. in any group there is a top dog leader so that happens = you have a religion now and the process is so inevitable and natural you can never have it banish. people do not like science with religion i think its ok. only if you look at religion as a contradiction to science reality and evidence is when they do not mix. there is the dangers of the heart. when people think about there heart more than there mind its strange; all that heart gets us too crazy. we need to use the mind to rationalise whatever the heart is singing on about; teach it to behave. too many religions make an unreal world of life mutating the whole thing for heart-only interpretation! and it becomes an isolated crazy. |
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religion is more fun is why it catched on |
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Thats what I think Toby.Men of God and silly hats go hand in hand. |
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it is a think tank of scientists (biologists, astrophysicists, etc) and theologian/christian apologetics. no i don't think that comment on evolution is laughable, particularly not when referring to evolution in a purely naturalistic sense (i could be open to a sort of template/transition based speciation vs pure ex nihilo creation of each species, but not random, algorithmic, naturalistic evolution) i also did a post showing how the events of genesis 1 could be consistent with our understanding of cosmological, geological and biological development . |
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Bollocks! 8 ) |
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i like how in 7 minutes time you were able to read and digest each article, and then still have time to prepare such a poignant rebuttal. ;) i think it is time for some yukon jack, grand mariner and orange aid. |
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I've seen the links before. I'll have some sweet dessert wine if you've got any on the go though. |
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I had some really nice Spanish solera sherry recently. It tastes like fig liqueur. We bought it for trifle but it's also good for nipping. |
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you've linked us to a google search page! i did actually click and skim through a couple, mostly nitpicking on finer points. there are actually christian groups that disagree with some of his work/beliefs that give better arguments than the few of these i've skimmed through. check out some of these other hot topics. |
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they are both gay |
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