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 (nobody)...and 380 guests Last 5 registered Oplandisks nothingstar N_loop yipe foxtrotromeo Browse members... |
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Ive been reading and seeing some stuff lately about some pretty strange "art" lately.... like the mesuem of death in the states somewhere, cant recall at the moment, I thought that would be cool - what with my morbid facination and all. But then I mean what about those videos that were made in Canada... Toronto i think where those art students skinned 2 live cats.... sick, but people complained it was art. Whats your opinion. I guess the stand I take is the logical one - anything can be art, and should be as long as its legal. But this may not be exactly how I feel... hard to say I guess. Shit... well anyone? |
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have you ever been to the Saatchi&Saatchi-gallery in london? they did some line-crossing things too |
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Explain please! >;D |
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Art has nothing to do with legality. The sole interest of art is aesthetics. Simple as that. I do not approve skinning cats in the name of art, but wouldn't deny it artistic value prior to witnessing (although it was probably just relying on shock value than on any other valid aesthetic). Anyway, art has nothing to do with laws or moral. Vienna aktionists used to have huge happenings with animal sacrifictions and bloodbaths some 30 years ago, and I'm sure you can find many more similar examples in history. What I am saying, our moralistic reaction to something is a separate thing to our aesthetic reaction. BTW, finally an interesting topic... |
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Meho Krljic::. yeah I thought it would be somewhat interesting. I mean I agree with you totally, just that I was saying what I heard.... I was throwing it in becasue they were arguing the legality of it all, that was one point, does it cross the line, I mean legally it does...... so therefore in the eyes of our governmet it is not art, but people are crying out for art..... |
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what about conceptual art? that doesn't have to be aesthetic |
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reflex: just because it's banned it doesn't stop being art. Is that obvious or what? It may not be socially acceptable, but that has nothing to do with it's aesthetic values (notice that I'm not trying to say that every provocative work of art has value). marlowe: well, the theory has it that with conceptual art the aesthetic (damn, what a difficult word to type) is in the action itself, like, when Duchamp brought that bottle rack to that museum and exhibited something manufactured automatically and in large series of nearly identical copies, as a unique, valuable work of art, the aesthetic was in altering everyone's vision. Do we value aesthetically only the things that claim to be art? If so, bringing an ordinary thing to a museum makes it a work of art. What are the absolute aesthetic axioms etc. |
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so you mean the idea is the aesthetic? the mechanics of thought? |
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Meho, the girl in your picture has got a nice art. |
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It's Arts job is to cross that line... that's the whole point or else it's just another Chocolate Box pic or meaningless... in fact, it shouldn't just cross it...it should shit on it & rub our noses in it...(and then sell the results to the rich & artless...)... Was the Cat Skinning thing just a way of finally proving once and for all that there's more than one way to skin a cat?... Have you a link, REFLEX?... p.s. Didn't understand the "as long as it's legal" bit....care to elaborate?... |
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I thought you maybe knew that gallery. they exposed statues,made out of human blood. there was also a portrait from a murderer(who killed some children but I don't know that word in english....) made out of children's hand prints A big controversy.... |
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well, it's some kind of an idea that art is generally something to do with our spirit and minds rather than with rough material representations, if you catch my drift |
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and I know bondage is an art, jivver |
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but everything is art - so therefore nothing is art - therefore art doesn't exist - therefore *BZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz PHUT* |
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That was the SENSATION show a few years back...the piece was a pic of Myra Hindley (A famous Child murderer - the Moors Murders...) done with kids handprints.... Outstanding stuff... The exposed body thing is called BODY WORKS (on in London at the mo...£10 to get in)....the artist/dr has developed a way to preserve the body called Plastination (sp?)...Imagine a skinn body with all the veins etc all in 3D... Will try and dig up a link....One piece is a guy on a Horse holding his & the horses Brain in each hand.... You need to see Pics to fully appreciate this... |
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link for ya... ... Big Article in this months MODERN PAINTERS (not online tho) but worth having a look thru if you see the mag... |
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I attend an art college and am a photographer so this is a topic we talk about ALL the time. What is Art? Everyone has an opinion, I think art is anything that makes you see something in a way you've never seen it before, something that conveys emotional meaning, or something you just likw to look at. I think when some artists do art just to shock: Serrano and the guy who did the shit painting of Mary in NYC it's fine, but it gets to be a cycle of how can you top yourself next. Sort of boring and predictable. Skinning a cat... I haven't heard about that. Who's the artist? Another popular topic has also been: When is nudity art, and when is it pornography. That debate is just as confusing. |
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I've seen a lot of plastinates in real life, It's an exhibition,called Korperwelten,(www.korperwelten.de) by professor Gunther Von Hagens they were beautiful,(aesthetic,if you want to..)but were they legal? The exhibition was not allowed in the netherlands... |
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My mistake.... It's called BODY WORLDS... Great site (in German & English) at .... |
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marlowe: no, art has to have a predominantly aesthetic aim (not practical one etc.) so not everything is art. But, yes, every person is an artist, but even knowing that, that doesn't mean that every person is a good artist: saying something is a work of art means just that it's intentions are aesthetic (that damn word again), but it doesn't mean it's any good. |
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regital: read the definition I posted below. That goes for the line between art and pornoghraphy too: Porn (which I am downloading a shitload of as we speak) reduces images to certain focal points, thus most frequently forsaking the overall aesthetic of a visual composition etc. Even though, some porn has a lot of visual aesthetic value. |
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jand: wow thats pretty sweet... shit. What I mean was, I DONT agree with what they were saying, but I mean the legal thing was the governments opinion not mine, whatever I think is art is art, and whatever I think crosses the line to me, crosses the line right? i just was speaking about how the Canadian government deems anything art as long as it was done/is legal. |
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The body is a very beautiful thing... the trick is representing it that way. Porn seems to be like you said [ Krljic ] very flat. |
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Reflex... who were the artists that skinned the cats? |
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regital:: cant recall right now.. sorry, two art students in university/college I believe. got busted pretty good by the cops. its all preception i guess.. I GUESS..... because I mean look at strippers, that can be called art, but is it SMART?.... but then again some people dont care right, and then again.. again some people dont even think about it being art. Its just some brainless ho up on stage? I guess.. but thats not the important part. Porn can be art, but thats more the "erotica" stuff..... Porn is driven to make a point, FUCK, FUCK FUCK.... and thats it. It may be degrating in some situations and in others, not.. is it art? thats up to you to decide. |
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porn's main aim is different than art's but porn (as well as stripping) can be art when it walks a clear aesthetic line. If you guys listened to merzbow, than you'd know that bondage, that most of us see only as subsection of porn is a real critically acclaimed art in Japan. It all breaks down to shapes, forms and composition ALONG with the obvious power/sexual context of it. See my avatar for fuckssake. |
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Meho Krljic::. yes I was going to make a comment about your avatar earlier. I understand that music and the messages that this stuff gives out. My personal view as porn as art, or stripping is that its something that floats in the middle of the line, it can be art or not depending on your standpoint, me.... I dont think its art personally unless it was made for that sake, like most erotica. |
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Another interesting fact one of my teachers was yammering on about was that music is the only "art" documented to cause an involuntary response in the body of joy. AKA serotonin rush. Hmmmmmm is that why I listen to so much music? I would rather be a musician than an artist. |
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well, yeah, I agree, it has to have an aesthetic intent, otherwise it ends up with so-called pornographic reduction |
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Meho Krljic:. true... and to think of it, it may be harsh but in all logical and reasonable terms {for myself, so in my opinion} I dont really have respect for what they do in porn, I mean sure I may like it from time to time.. only really when im without a girlfriend... which I have had a good one for a while now... so scratch porn off the list... I may respect them as people if I ever met any, but I mean.... I dunno its just.. whatever a non issue I think. Strippers are fun to go to now and then... for special good party occasians... but I dont like sitting there for too long, I feel.. "lower"? I guess, in my opinion again its not art and I see the girls as.. lower beings who are just.. toys. Id never want to see one of my chick friends be like that way. Its not art to me at all. But moreso... ART...... paintings.. I guess music is like that too... music.... effects the brain ... responses are triggered. |
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reflex: um, I guess that most of the stripping and porn we run into has nothing art-related to it. But that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. And I do not a priori feel less respect for those people than for other people. A person is a person. |
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I know a person is still a person, just the way I view it ofcourse. I can agree to disagree with you no problem. thats fine. Its not like I hate them as a person, I just dont respect what they DO. |
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How do feel about Jeff Koons and his series of painting of himself & his ex-porn star wife (and one time Italian MP) making love etc?.... Or Mapplethorpes Homo-Erotic photographs?... Check em out on Google and let me know your thoughts... p.s. REFLEX - Did you really use the word "chick" or am I tripping?..;).. |
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we've been through this a couple of weeks ago, haven't we? OK, I'll say it again: stripping of being a porn actor/ actress is no worse than being a trashman or an office assistant like me. But suit yourself |
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What about pornography being linked to violence against women? |
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jand::. i said the word chick man..... yeah! not all porn is violence against women. some can be though, ive seen my fair share of that. |
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