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 (nobody)...and 510 guests Last 5 registered Oplandisks nothingstar N_loop yipe foxtrotromeo Browse members... |
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Members 8025Messages 2614087 Today 0 Topics 127542 |
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between left or right? ....PC or Mac.?.....play aphex or []pusher? or do we have no choice at all in the situation! is it just how we are at that moment due to the chain of events that got us there? we weigh up all the factors we can in our mind and the direction we take is based on the results? blah blah an ting. |
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choice is limited by its environment |
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Limitation is a condition of choice. |
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like the roll of a dice. |
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right/pc/aphex. you need to be firm freqy, don't show them your fear. |
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i don't know my/human brain that well. i don't think anybody does |
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Right / PC / Aphex |
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you're all slaves of your environment :D WHILE I ALWAYS HAD A CHOICE. |
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choice is just about all we have. |
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dont we choose? |
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when you need the toilet REALLY BAD to the point of EXPLOSION. you do not have a choice....as your mind cannot take anymore....the very strong electronic waves created and sent to your brains by the stretched tissue makes you wee your pants fast and strong.. i have a choice between an apple and an yellow acidy grape fruit right now all the signals in my head say "take apple" due to past experiences of grapefruits destroying my taste buds witgh acid. is that a choice ? or just the logical selection due to past experienes. are our choices based on past experiences and the physical sensations we have at the moment ( exploding bladder) am we just an organic computers that think we can manipulate or programing...."i choose to take a physics A level exam this year....or is that physics stimulates me with wonder and that possitve feeling makes me go for that choice...im not gonna take a knitting exam...it does nothing for me...so i did not have a choice at all really !?! . |
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choice even is predictable in many many cases. look at your friends and what they choose to do and you can see how they act. this goes beyond their taste in foods and habits. but take hobbits, you can learn everything you need to know about them in 30 minutes; still they can surprise you! |
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TOILET IS TRICKY ONE. SOMETIMES I NEED POO BDLY BUT NO TOILET ROUND. SO I HOLD IT. BUT THE MOMENT THE TOILET IS NEER, ITS LIKE THE POO TIKES ON LIFE OF ITS OVVN ND I HEV NO CONTROL. |
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SO I RUN FSTLY OR I POO IN MY PNTS |
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;p haha |
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brot |
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Knowledge is always incomplete, therefore choice is always limited. |
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TOILET: i cannot choose to not urinate ect. But i could choose to let it run down my leg or i could fill a balloon. It would be hot and would smell of sugarpuffs. |
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Its too complex to understand that everything begins with choise. The world is indeterminable, how u can say that enviroment crucial for our choises, and vice versa we cant proove that exists something in human like free will. |
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have you ever shat your pants at work ? |
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just because a decision may be 99.9% predictable and also conditioned by the environment it's made in does not mean its not a free choice |
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all these atoms electrons and thingies are whirling around banging into things ,chain reactions going on everywhere governed by nature ...so if i can choose to change these reactions which control thoughts and physical actions which are all atoms and particle thingies ..what am i made of to change the directions of electrons ? |
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a spiritual force which can modulate the laws of physics? |
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methinks you're conditioned most of the time |
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your brain and your consciousness is something over and above the particles it is made up of/supervenient on. If you looked at the universe purely in terms of atoms and molecules and electrons then you can explain every event without having to refer to choice or rationality at all (even though, as far as we're concerned, rational choice is governs many events). Even though you can influence atoms and molecules, and you are made of nothing more than atoms and molecules this is not nonsensical. Although of course it is mysterious how we consciousness arises from just atoms and molecules. A spiritual force which can modulate the laws of physics? |
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so i was right!? WOO HOO!! :P hey........ if i chop my arm off ...i am still me. if i chop my heart out and put on a machine ...im still me. if i have a stroke ....i am still me. if i take out the part of my brain that is for sight me is me. if i wipe my memories its still me.? so i am wondering ...which part of the brain is me? is there an antenna to the spiritual world inside my head is this what you are saying ...like a remote controlled body? |
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Knowledge is always incomplete, therefore choice is possible. |
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word. and since choice is possible, so does new knowledge |
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Well its by no means a closed case what constitutes "you". You could argue that if you have your memories wiped you are not you, allthough that is a rather stringent condition of identity, because then an amnesiac would not be the same person from day to day. I would say that there is no part of the brain which is you. If it were possible and your entire brain was mapped to a computer program and then your physical brain destroyed, would that computer program be you? If you have a lobotomy are you still you? |
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even if knowledge is complete, surely choice is still possible? |
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but that doesn't mean its not free. I maybe conditioned by my enviroment to have certain values and tastes but that's not incompatible with me being held morally responsible for the decisions I make based on my values. |
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Depends on what you mean by knowledge. Assuming total knowledge, including knowledge of values, what would be good and bad, right and wrong, would most likely rule it out, or at least render it much more susceptible to the "a choice is simply the only logical conclusion of all the facts" argument. |
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*tilt* |
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Logical: A reasonable solution to a problem Reasonable: Capable of reasoning; Rational |
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"If it were possible and your entire brain was mapped to a computer program and then your physical brain destroyed, would that computer program be you? " how would we know too? haha :p |
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yeah I see what you mean there, I was thinking of choice in general rather than value judgements |
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Choice isn't possible without letting value play a part; if you choose without letting the two options have different values for yourself, you could just as well have flipped a coin, meaning that even though you do “select” one of the options, you have not made a choice between them. |
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this thread is for proving to everyone else that you're right cleva. POST NOW!!! choice for dummies by ampi max. yes we have choice |
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There is no such thing as "you". There is only the physical entity that you call you, which is entirely manufactured by thought, and therefore has no real substance. |
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Whose thought is it, if it isn't your thought? |
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It is natural to name it "your" thought but everything you know was implanted there by your culture, otherwise you would not even understand how to use language or interpret anything. You are full of bits and pieces of what everybody else has experienced before you. You cannot claim it for yourself - you are truly a second hand human being. You think you have choice, but thought is restricted to a limited pool of knowledge, taken from what you have been taught and what you have access to learn, which is always limited. Like a prisoner has choice, but its severely restricted by his environment, the same applies to you. |
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everything you know was “implanted” there by your culture, otherwise, you would not even understand how to use language or interpret anything. You are full of bits and pieces of what everybody else has experienced before you. etc you catch my drift. Choice isn't restricted by environment, the environment and its “restrictions” are the conditions of your choices. good night. |
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i choose not to choose |
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you've chosen that because of your social upbringing. yawn. |
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wrong actually, i choose to ignore my social upbringing, and by chance just came up with the same answer i would have made had i not ignored it... how do you like them pomaceous fruits? |
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I don't want to accuse you of being a bit of a thickie, but you're not really concentrating on what's being said. "You/Your" is just a word, convenient for the purposes of communication. The spoken word is not the thing. The word mountain is not the mountain. The written word is the crystallisation of thought, not something that is alive and rooted in truth. This is very much part of humanities problem, the symbolisation of words/images, which in themselves have no tangible meaning, and then of course the worship of individuals whose thoughts and words have become crystallised then manipulated and distorted thus losing all of their essence. The information they spoke itself being second hand information, that's all it can be - nothing original can ever be spoken. |
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om |
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left/pc/squarepusher! |
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"This is very much part of humanities problem, the symbolisation of words/images, which in themselves have no tangible meaning" What, like "your"? Fuck off. |
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