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 (nobody)...and 455 guests Last 5 registered Oplandisks nothingstar N_loop yipe foxtrotromeo Browse members... |
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I'm not saying insects have a particularly spectacular memory or complex emotions or anything, but after spending quite a bit of time with some praying mantises I found in Hungary, I have found that their responses to external stimuli are more varied and advanced than most books I've read on insects let on. Even though it's all instinctual, the way a praying mantis will, for example, shift it's prey from two hands into one and attempt to catch another insect with it's other limb, finish the first, and then move on the second, is quite impressive to behold. And there's lots more little things they do which are always overlooked. The same can be said for what I'm feeding them on - crickets - which freeze as soon as the predator's head shifts towards them, gang up on predators if there is enough of them (from all directions, as if it were planned), and do lots of other nifty things. I know there's a danger of applying more meaning or intelligence to a behavior than is actually going on, but the sorts of things I'm noticing repeat enough for it to be more than coincidence. I don't know why I felt the urge to share that here. Perhaps it's because this absurd obsession is a bit embarrassing to discuss in the 'real world'... |
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how do spiders know how to make webs? how ...do flies know how to fly like jet fighter pilots just 1 day out of the thing they come from!? why does it take a human so long to know how to do anything !? insects are by far more impressive and creepy because of it. |
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you astound me freqy there's a great section in godel, escher, bach on ant colonies, he reckons once they reach a certain size they behave similarly to a single conscious entity. |
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Thanks for that, it does look really interesting. I've ordered it. |
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Ants astounded me too. There's lots of larger wood ants over there, which build large mounds out of twigs, bits of earth, anything. I watched ants struggle to drag a dead insect alone, give up, walk about a bit in a confused, drunken manner, then bump into two or three others and return to carry the dead creature with their aid. Then the dead thing gets dragged by all of them towards the hole, where two larger ants stand on guard and wave their heads up and down towards the others a bit, as it to say, "oh, you're ok, go ahead and take that down." And all over the shop, they're doing things like that, carrying bits here, cutting bits down into smaller bits there, dropping things and going back to them with others. |
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if you still can, do yourself a huge favor and order his first book as well. |
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def. check the godel,escher bach book. there's A LOT covered in it. and in a brilliant way. for example when explaining emerging 'intelligent' behavior of an ant colony, like horse mentioned. reading the whole book is like graduating in artificial intelligence. almost all aspects of ai are covered. |
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seconded, it's great, I'm just starting it for the second time around. I didn't get all of it the first time but what I did has stayed with me. |
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sorry, its a god program.........erm ...might be true but i dint realise,sorry if i offended your atheism. |
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this is ridiculously remarkable. |
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yet...the man is saying god is remote controlling the ants from above? or that he installed the intelligence into there minds ? or that ants are like an efficient considerate respectful version of us humans? it seems the ants are born with information ...or instinct ...yet the whole thing is working as one ....kinda like a human body thing...if i didnt have a kidney i would die if ididnt have a heart i would die...this ant thing is like a body but outside crawling around. im not sure's. |
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I'm not saying insects have a particularly spectacular memory or complex emotions or anything, but after spending quite a bit of time drugs I found in Hungary, I have found that their responses to external stimuli are more varied and advanced than most books I've read on insects let on. |
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Hah... well, unfortunately I can't excuse this obsession by blaming it on the use of drugs. I'm sure if you found a praying mantis, you'd give up all earthly pleasures in a quest to serve him/her/it and discover it/her/him's deepest secrets. They're very interesting. |
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See....I'd just crush as many as i could with my superior human SHOE. squish cripple HA. |
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I'm always blown away by the things insects manage to accomplish with only rudimentary nervous systems. I've heard about the cricket behavior you mentioned, but have never seen it. The idea of a synchronized cricket assault is strangely terrifying! I'm interested to learn of any other mantis or cricket behaviors that you observed repeating - this stuff fascinates me. I'm glad you had the urge to share this, it's the most interesting thread I've found here in weeks. Thanks to everyone who suggested the related books, I'll definitely have to look into them. Drunken Mastah: what do drugs have to do with this? |
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Oh, thanks. I've been collecting/observing a few kinds of insects for a few years, and I've seen all these little behaviours that aren't ever discussed in books and articles (or are simplified - female mantises, for example, do not just eat the male's head after mating as a matter of ritual, but simply try and kill and consume the male as a prey like an other if he fails to escape her back post-sex without her seeing him). Since you're interested, I'll gladly list a bunch of observations a bit later. :-) |
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*as a prey like any other Also, normally she gets through more than just the head of the male. Most failed escapes I've seen result in the poor bastard being eaten in his entirety. If she's already fat enough, though, she won't manage more than the head and neck. |
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I don't like the insect world, there is no humanity there, no good things at all. EAT EAT EAT. I'm sure everyone here saw that life in the undergrowth thing with those social spiders that have a huge web that stretches for miles (i think i dunno). If something lands in it then spiders nearby asses it's eatabilty then pluck the web to send a signal that makes thousands of the fuckers come down on the helpless prey. The cold efficiency of that...I can't help but hate it even if it fascinates me. I know that is nothing compared to things like ants and shit. |
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well we should respect them still ampi, cus they have been here longer than us, and some of them do serve a purpose. for example spiders are good in your home, because they eat other little insects which you don't want. Did you know that a fruit fly cell contains 13,601 genes. Human cells, by contrast, are thought to have more 70,000 genes and fruit flies share nearly 60% of human genes |
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i had to kill a pair of carnivore bees and a group of ants this summer, after discovering that they were dismembering a huge flying scarab alive (to whom i accidentally cut the wings the night before).. |
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Oh i do. I respect them n all that, it's ignorant not to. But they are symbolic of something i've been thinking on a lot for a few years. Anyway i'll pipe down. |
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oh shut up. symbollocks |
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haha oh ampi |
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� |
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spiders aren't insects. there, i said it. sue me. |
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i wish i'd written something smarter about insects... |
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awww ,..we know your capable ! |
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c'mon CS2X, tell us stories of interesting bug phenomena :) |
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*sings Bill Bailey's "Insect Nation* |
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Oh yeah, like some sort of amount of time ago, I was 'outside' and there was a small board of wood on the ground that I wanted to move, so I just picked it up and moved it but it kinda scraped the ground. Well I looked and I totally scraped off like half of this earwig's head on accident and it was still alive and stumbling around in agony. I watched in horror as ants later came by to harass and kill it slowly. So if I didn't exist maybe it would still be alive and happy today. Is my life worth the life of that earwig, no, it is worth much much less (and also I killed this spider that was in my house recently because it was too hard to capture it with a cup to let it outside). True story. |
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By the time I read godel escher bach, none of it was new to me at all. I read that information in previous better books that didn't annoy me with poems about turtles between every chapter. HOFFsteaEadeer's singularity talk was one of the stupidest ones too, not that I have any brain wiring for talking myself. If I ever find myself in a position where I have to talk to someone I better close my eyes and imagine a keyboard and see if I can somehow type the syllables. |
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stick to the music, rob :P |
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ants and bees have more complex social structures than most mammals. a complex social structure isn't necessarily a sign of intelligence, however. |
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It did have one cool thing if I'm thinking of the right koob though, on the cover or something was a picture of an alphabetic letter carved from a block where its a 'g' from one direction and a 'e' from another direction or whatever the stupid letters were supposed to stand for whatever broken theme was supposed to be in the book, symmetry I guess. |
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*bump* |
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I'll start a list of random little things I've noticed with the mantises :-) -Unless they're preoccupied with climbing, when you walk into a room they'll often swivel their heads towards you and follow your movements with their head across the room. After a while, once it's established you're neither a threat nor prey, I assume, they stop doing this and do whatever they were doing before. -I don't know where this idea that mantises lie in wait for prey came from, really. They do remain completely still if no other creatures are nearby, but they can see other things from quite far away and I've often seen them stalk and then run after other insects over large if they're hungry enough. They can loose interest if an insect is smart enough to stop moving, though, though that's rare. -The way they clean themselves is cool. They'll nibble their front legs and wipe their face after with them, in exactly the same way a cat will lick its paws and wipe its face. They'll sometimes proceed to grab their back legs or antenna with their front and pull them towards their mouth to clean - it looks a lot more impressive than it sounds. They'll only clean if they're settled down. - If you spray water or drop water on them, they will try and use their two front legs to pick up a droplet and bring it to their mouth. If there's a droplet on their face, for example, they'll swipe their face (like they do when they clean themselves) and drink off their front claws. If a droplet dribbles under their mouth (on their neck), they can swivel their head down at an award angles and suck it from below their heads. If they have wings and water is on them, they'll flutter them to flick it off, and may go on to bend down to drink flicked water off surfaces around them (although they'll do that anyway if water is around.) -Talking of wings, they can hiss by rubbing their abdomens against their wings in a certain way, and will flare their wings up (like a fan opening) if something approaches that is bigger than the |
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*If something approaches that is bigger than them. This is most exciting when two full grown females meet head on; they'll look at each other, then both will begin to flare up their wings, hiss, and then strike each other with their front legs. One strikes the other, and then the other strikes back, back and forth, until one backs off or runs away. However, many times when I used to introduce females (I don't do this any more) one would end up eating the other, even if they were equal in size, because it observed the other walking from behind. For a strange ritualistic fight to occur, normally one female has to walk head on towards another female; however, if one female happens to notice another walking from a distance, she may often not engage in a fight but simply try and grab the entire other female like it was a regular cricket or anything else. The other female will attack back and may cause damage or even free itself (because of its equal size), but often, because it has been grabbed by each claw at opposite ends of its body, it can't do very much in defense (when mantises capture things like wasps and other insects with dangerous defenses, they'll hold each end of the creature, stopping it from either stinging or biting, and start eating alive from the middle (or anywhere where there isn't a sting or mandibles.) Males don't seem to engage in fights or attack other males; they're much smaller, more nervous, and need much less to eat. That's it for now, but there's loads more little things I've seen. Hope it's not too boring for ya, Zephyr Twin . :) |
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awesome... I'd love to have a large terrarium furnished with real plants and such for a pet praying mantis.. They've been my favorite insect since I was a child. In regards to mantises lying in ambush vs. stalking prey on open ground, I've heard that the orchid mantises are the ones that ambush prey, as their bodies have evolved to look exactly like the flower which gives them their name. |
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oh and thanks for taking the time to type that up, I appreciate it! |
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That's true, I've never seen orchids stalk, or leaf mantises. I wouldn't personally recommend these to own, though, as they seem to be very fragile breeds (unless I was just unlucky with the ones I got.) Orchid mantises are beautiful, though. :-) |
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Gödel, Escher, Bach is great, if only because it introduced me to Bach's Musical Offering. Best Bach ever. |
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hi darius |
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ello |
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They have stag beetle larvi for sale in the fucking supermarkets here. Japanese kids are obsessed with bugs, kinda like most western kids are into dinosaurs. I found a praying mantis outside my apartment yesterday. I wanted to catch the bugger but he was all big and creepy and doing sign language with his hands. Bees are pretty cool too. they behave in similar social manner as ants but its all controlled by chemical secretions of the queen. its like a big ole chemical reaction. My mates a bee keeper he loves waxing on about bees! |
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sign language ,bee's behave and waxing" .....that was a funny read :P |
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"I read that information in previous better books that didn't annoy me with poems about turtles between every chapter." lol, I know what you mean! but seriously, issa good book!! insects are scary but awesome |
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that was a reply to |
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