 |
|
You are not logged in! F.A.Q Log in Register |
 |
|
 |
 (nobody)...and 356 guests Last 5 registered Oplandisks nothingstar N_loop yipe foxtrotromeo Browse members... |
 |
Members 8025Messages 2614103 Today 0 Topics 127542 |
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
That is not what I am saying at all. Technology should be limited to what the moderately competent can do. I think a lot of what is 'wrong' with midi today is due to the way companies like behringer, ableton and maudio seem to be implementing it. Say you take something that is sufficiently more complicated to do; these companies aren't going to make better equipment because of it. They are going to make their shitty equipment work even poorer than it is now because they don't take the time to do it properly in the first place. Solution to midi isn't a replacement of the standard, its making sure the standard is upheld. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
Technology should be limited to what the moderately competent can do. ^_^ |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
Hah. You can relate this to analogue synthesis in a way. A lot of people believe analogue synthesizers are plain "better". Sure, they actually represent electrons flowing through circuits where as digital synthesizers calculate them... but even so, pitch/temperature drift is a problem, they can be unreliable, etc. etc. They definitely have their limitations, but people still buy into this old technology. Same with MIDI. Yes, it has limitations, but it works well enough. It's over 20 years old now but it's still good enough for people to use. Standard analogue synthesis principles are now over 40 years old. Christ, FM synthesis was developed in the late 60s and patented in the mid 70s - Autechre still use it! I know I'm probably shouting too much about synthesis, but it's a way of comparing technologies. As Taxi suggested, if it ain't broke, why fix it? |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
Floppy disks aren't broken either. Let's keep using them. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
They do indeed have their uses. It's difficult to make a boot disk using CDrs in some circumstances. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
no a standard based on a modern talk-back plug & play system would be much better than midi. when midi is by itself without the host organizing it some way to make it easier it can be a pain to get instruments to talk to each other properly. machines can image each other today. manually setting that up is counter-productive and demotivating tbh. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
No no no, mister, don't be moving the goalposts on me. It's a far cry from "floppy disks are good enough - we don't need anything better" to "floppy disks are handy in a pinch when all else fails, for instance troubleshooting obsolete hardware". There's nothing wrong with using midi when you're using old hardware. I mean, you have to. The pity is that obsolescence comes standard on almost everything still being sold, except the odd lemur or monome type device. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
Irrelevant bong-twaddle. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
From my perspective, the discussion isn't "midi is good enough we don't need anything better". The discussion is "midi is good enough, it gives us all the functionality we need and it would be more difficult to upgrade than its worth". You seem like one of those people who thought that everyone should have gone to laserdisc back when VHS was still the main format. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
The fact remains that he hasn't described what is wrong with MIDI, so I presume he is just trolling. As such, try not to reply to spurious questions about floppy discs and the like. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
Midi is slower than a dialup modem(*). It doesn't have data types like ascii strings and binary blobs. Too much controller data on the same cable and the timing goes to shit. It's 2008. I should be able to daisy chain together a few computers and synths with ethernet cable and not worry about any of this shit. I should be able to send hundreds of hi res streams of lfo and bezier curve envelope data from software to hardware. I should be able to send live video to a synth and have it fourier transformed and used as a tonal spectrum. That'll never happen if you neanderthals keep chipping away at your flint axes. Use some imagination, not everyone wants to make the thud thud oink oink music midi is suited for. I want to make people aware of how badly midi stinks so they start asking for OSC support at trade shows and music stores. Fortunately a lot of interesting software already supports it. (* taxidermist is slower than either) |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
LOL. I think its more the other way around. Trolls are usually the easiest to bait. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
Don't you be talkin smack boy. I whup you upside de haid. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
fleetmouse.....i was going to say something but i'm too tired.. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
i have the nanopad, a good tool with Live, but for somereason i dont understand why when you MIDI map the XY pad to a knob or slider in ableton, sometimes it will stay at the valvue of 50% instead of going back down to 0. also, how do you change the keynotes that the pads are assigned to? (I think they are assigned to C3-C4) with drum rack and some samples this thing is awesome for the price too. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
there is this small app i was using lately - midi to lan or ethernet to midi or something like this where you send midi over your ethernet cable - should check it out. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
i'm quite happy with midi after all - the only thing that i hate are those ridiculously big connectors. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
macs can directly send and recieve midi with a crossover/ethernet cable if your using windwos you need an app or some way to send MIDI over an IP |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
Well, of course before MIDI there was CV + Gate/Trig. Why are many analogue/modular synth users pushed into buying MIDI-CV converters? In some ways CV is better than MIDI, but we don't use it very often now at all. There's a lot of "why" surrounding music technology/audio systems. I should be able to send hundreds of hi res streams of lfo and bezier curve envelope data from software to hardware. Well you can via CCs. How well this data is interpreted depends on what you're using at the sound generation end. Many cheap digital synths use AWFUL stepping. I should be able to send live video to a synth and have it fourier transformed and used as a tonal spectrum. As well as being total nonsensical bum-wank (please expand on how you Fourier Transform video...), that's barely possible with today's equipment. You'd need very high-tech gear to merely process all that data live, nevermind generate sound at the end, and also you'll have a near-endless number of parameters and variables to set (such as "what does red do?") Then you get into digital image mapping and how many bits of colour etc. etc. Otiarc: You can definitely do this in Live 7 - In the bar at the bottom of the screen, you should be able to set your parameter ranges while doing the whole MIDI Learn process. That should fix your problem. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
Well you can via CCs. How well this data is interpreted depends on what you're using at the sound generation end. Many cheap digital synths use AWFUL stepping. Let's say for the sake of argument that the internal structure of the destination isn't a problem. You still have only 127 steps in a standard CC signal, and if you try to do NRPN as Dave G suggests you'll practically flood the cable with only one controller signal if it's constantly changing. Even sending regular CC data on a midi cable makes it useless for carrying tight rhythm note ons and offs. While we're on the topic, midi cannot, strictly speaking, play a chord. There's no such thing as simultaneous events in midi. Is that retarded or what? Midi is literally, no joke, slower than a dialup modem. Midi can transmit at about 31 kilobits per second. When I used a dialup modem I used to get stable connections between 40 and 50 kilobits per second. Fast ethernet is 100megabits per second. Since OSC is only limited by the speed of the underlying transport protocol, it's already ready for gigabit ethernet. Why are electronic musicians, who should love technology and look forward to change, acting as apologists for this dreadful 30 year old bottleneck? As well as being total nonsensical bum-wank (please expand on how you Fourier Transform video...) OK, mister pedantic. It'd be more like inverse FFT or additive synthesis, since a video frame could be considered already frequency-domain. that's barely possible with today's equipment. Yes. ^_^ Sadist - yeah, there's a utility called ipmidi for windows. That's great for anything that has an ethernet port. Unfortunately almost all synth hardware is still made with standard midi ports. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
CC - Indeed it's quite badly stepped, but if the input device can slew/curve the signal to some degree, it wouldn't be so bad. MIDI may be slow, but then again your comparison with dialup internet is a little unfair. Loading a webpage means loading text, images, sound, etc. Transmitting MIDI only needs a tiny fraction of that data, so isn't such a problem. If you can notice the delay between each note sent via MIDI, you're superhuman. I still don't totally get the video thing - how would you convert colour, shape, line, etc. data into sound? You could do what is done with programs such as Coagula, which in a way is additive synthesis, with co-ordinates mapped to pitch and time, brightness to loudness, etc. but I can't imagine any other methods of image->sound synthesis. On the topic of impossible music "things", I'd love sound to be a more physical attribute. Obviously it is totally physical in the way that particles vibrate, but imagine if you could "grab" sound and twist it, pull it, etc. Hooray for tangents. :P |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
I forgot about this thread! If you can notice the delay between each note sent via MIDI, you're superhuman. If you only send note on and off data, and not too much of it, then yes. Otherwise, no. There will be synchronization problems with too much data. The shitty bandwidth keeps manufacturers from innovating, and the lack of innovation keeps people saying that midi is still good enough, as long as you have low expectations. but I can't imagine any other methods of image->sound synthesis. I can. ^_^ imagine if you could "grab" sound and twist it, pull it, etc. Windows 7 will natively support multitouch, which will probably make touchscreens cheaper and more common. Or are you talking about force feedback gloves combined with virtual reality so you can play Strangle Chris Martin on Xbox? |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
with my guitar synth i could notice the 2 ms delay |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
and 5 ms was too much delay for me actually (you can prolly get used to it easily, my drum teacher only plays drums with triggers now and says he doesn't mind (he even has the drumkit the triggers are on sampled)) |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
If you could notice it, it was more than 2ms. Sound takes ~3ms to travel a meter. If you play electric guitar and your amp is 2 meters away, that's 6ms. Then again maybe you like to play with your head inside the speaker cone, in which case I have other concerns about you. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
Anyways the latency isn't the problem with midi, it's the bandwidth that's the problem. If you have a lot of fast note ons and you send even one CC or god forbid some pitch bend, the timing goes all homosexual. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
headphones |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
this is a good thread...keep arguing till one of you gives up, then we can ridicule them. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
That's crazy if you notice a 2ms delay... very very odd. Fleetmouse: Yeah I was talking about simple note data. I'm working on a CC Randomiser in Synthedit at the moment and there's masses of MIDI delay. It's not a major problem for me though. BTW back on topic I'm selling my Nanokontrol for £35 + Postage if anyone's interested. It doesn't work with Windows XP Media Edition (i.e. my laptop) but works fine with Windows XP Home (i.e. my desktop). :( |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
any guitar player will, it just feels different from how you normally pick a string |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
|
Messageboard index
|
|||||||||
