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I went on a three day meditation retreat at the local Tibetan Buddhist center, with my wife. I met ordained buddhist dudes and dudettes for the first time (cool people). On the third day, during a guided meditation, I had my first experience/realisation of no-self/emptiness. It was strangely comforting. :) |
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well done! :) any chances of getting in that state again without guidance? i cant even imagine how difficult it must be. |
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It wasn't that hard, really. I was surprised. I don't know what it was. The nun who lead the meditation new just what to say at the right times, and perhaps it has a bit to do with the attitudes you bring to the table, but it was relatively effortless. I'm not sure if I could do it without guidance again.... I would probably get a bit tied up with my expectations. |
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have you by any chance heard of or read anything by gurumayi? |
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no, I have not (googling) |
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ok, looks interesting. looks like an interesting dude. |
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it's a she :) i suppose it's a different kind of yoga from the one you practice. but yeah i have heard some pretty fascinating stories about her meditation retreats/gatherings. yoga + meditation is on the agenda for 2008! |
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vipassana can be done with very little guidance. the methods are extremely simple, it's the things that pop up that sometimes aren't. to get a taste, i'd recommend looking into shinzen young, his lectures and writings are great! |
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oh, right, I found the website of her guru....... rather than her. yeah, i practice the asana (postures) side of yoga, rather than concentrating on meditation. We do some meditation, but it's hard to find a yogi who has trained in those aspects. Thats why I go to the buddhists for meditation. Good luck with your yoga/ meditation. Look around for a teacher that you connect with. Try a few out before you commit. There are all sorts of teachers and practices out there. Everyone has diffrent needs/ tastes. |
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I found vipassana to be very powerful, but I found the practitioners lacked loving-kindness. They had the detachement side of things sorted out, but they missed out on the compassion. That was my experience of the group I sat with. I'm sure it's not universal. I have always been attracted to Theravada, but I aftter my last retreat, I think maybe the Tibetans have something going on. |
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thanks for the advice. i will go to kundalini yoga first, but there are two other options in my city. |
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it's strange that you say that, at times i think vipassana meditators can be too compassionate, at least verbally. i know that's not really possible, i'm just drawn to the more extreme bare-bones stuff. evil healing humour. hopefully everything leads to the same place and i heard one method can make another stronger. good luck! |
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I think I understand your attraction to the "bare-bones" approach. That is what drew me to vipassana. Perhaps I just came across a group that was quite on the path. That is why I was surprised that the mahayanis had such a profound affect on me over the last three days. It showed me the difference between an intellectual understanding of a concept and an actual realisation. And you are right when you say they all lead to the same place. Everyone has a teaching that is right for them. As long as you avoid charlatans you should be right. Anyway, namaste and love, light and peace to you. |
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Meditation is ridiculous. You are fooling yourself. There is no "higher state", no such thing as "spirituality". Your body has its own natural intelligence, it "meditates" while you are asleep and there is no value in enforced meditation while you are awake. The Buddhists are as ignorant and stupid as the Christians, Muslims and Jews with their holy books and traditions. There is no "awakening", you are already awake. Instead of adding to the religious shit you put in your head, drop it, only then your thinking will become clear. You are playing a childish game with yourself, convincing yourself that you have discovered some sort of inner-piece or other such nonsense. If you want peace, go sit in a library, it will have much the same effect, except you probably won't feel the necessity to boast about it to your friends. That's what this is all about after all. |
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"Anyway, namaste and love, light and peace to you." LMFAO. Sounds like you done got brainwashed. I don't understand how these pseudo-religious cult-y forms of Buddhism can promote greater symbiosis with others whilst requiring you to things like "namaste and love, light and peace to you." That's not a way of blending in or coexisting with your surroundings. That is, however, a sure way to sound like a few too many bad trips, and get laughed at by friends and acquaintances. Some of the spiritual ideas are really cool, but I'd recommend against inundating your speech with corny crap like that unless you REALLY know what you're doing. And if you're going to go on a rant about how we've no right to stifle your spiritual growth or something, then don't post on this messageboard about these things. It's totally inappropriate, and warrants some picking over. Sorry, man. This just rubs me the wrong way. |
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And the pre-emptiveness of my last post is also unfair. but... don't drink the kool-aid lol |
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your mind doesn't meditate while you sleep. it's constantly active while you're dreaming. meditation is basically turning of the sub-conscious, clearing the mind of all thoughts. that's not pseudo. i'm not sure about higher-states of consciousness or whatever (in-fact i skipped most of this thread), but not thinking about something for a few minutes can be quite liberating. although i don't think i've managed to do more than ten seconds and even then i'm not sure whether i'm fooling myself into believing i've managed it. |
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I like the idea of awareness meditation... It's just that most people who practice this stuff tend to go all out and do things like get vanity plates that say "Medit8", change their clothing style, and say things like "namaste" when it's completely inappropriate. Cars, clothes, and how you greet people has no bearing on your mindfulness. I wonder why more people don't practice meditation more humbly. If you've ever found yourself in "the zone" while making music or whatever... when time becomes meaningless... then that's a pretty potent form of meditation. Lots of people do it. |
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while meditation may have spiritual over-tones, the concept alone does not necessarily imply any connection with spirituality and the following of a certain creed or whatever. it's quite simple really, i hope i spelled it out there in the previous post. you assume too much, barcode. |
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i often find myself in a p'zone from pizza hut. shit is dope!!! |
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yeah but not all people see it as a fashion statement. those who do probably only practice for it for a short while as a phase in their life. and maybe there are others who keep on doing it and see it as lifestyle and assume some kind of identity, and that's fine too. why do you think it bothers you so much anyway? |
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It strikes me as fake, and thus undesirable. |
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I mean, whatever floats your boat, but if it's something that constantly gets in the way of "real" interaction, then I'm inclined to talk to other people. It's kind of like being friends with someone who is in AA and talks about it constantly. It can get irritating. |
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Also: "yeah but not all people see it as a fashion statement" I know. Thats exactly what I posted. Lots of people reach meditative states without even knowing it, or labelling it as meditation as well... Grr. I try not to interfere too much with how people conduct themselves, but for a group of people whose values transcend the worth of material possessions, some of them can be awfully possessed by materials. And the namaste stuff just bothers me. I don't like amen either. |
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and by that I mean the amen break. |
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Namaste...that's what the Dharma initiative say to each other in Lost. Anyway, I don't see how "Lots of people reach meditative states without even knowing it, or labelling it as meditation as well... " is anywhere near to saying "not all people see it as a fashion statement". but forget it anyway. that's fine if it gets up your nose. a lot of shit pisses me off too. |
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All i have is years and years of sadness. That is my future. I'm constantly suffocating on myself. I'm so sick of trying. Trying never works. You died before I met you. |
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i love the amen break. |
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I would be nice to be able to get "in the zone" at will, I must say. Normally it seems to come to you. Not from anything magical, of course; it's probably a combination of the days events, the food you've eaten, the weather, atmospheric conditions, other things going on in life, etc. that produce a sudden creative spurt or "feeling". It's annoying how out of control that can seem, though, especially when there's collaborative work and you really, really need to be inspired. Not sure if meditation would do the tick, though. David Lynch thinks it works, but what he's talking about sounds a bit hocus-pocus, as great as his films are. |
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I'm saying, you don't have to devote your car, house, clothing, and pubic haircut to meditation in order to reap the benifits of it. I love David Lynch, but honestly, the way he talks about TM now gets in the way of lots of insight into his character. If he wasn't so clouded by all of this unified field bullcrap, maybe he'd figure out for himself how he creates his ideas, and would write an actual book, not some heap of dung like "Catching the Big Fish". |
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BTW CS2x I was in the process of writing that when you posted your Lynch comment. Anyway, judge for yourself: The pictures on the right hand side show the GLOBAL sort of effects TM can have on an individual. Yes, YOU can create world peace. |
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Hi, I'd like a Big-Mac, a small fry, and some world peace. |
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wow |
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I disagree with your position. My experience of meditation is not the same as sitting in a library. I'm sorry you felt I was boasting. I was just sharing an experience. I know some people on xlt are interested in such things. Now, back to the threads about Hanals cats. |
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mum_ra, he wasn't boasting about anything. He was sharing an experience, something everybody on this board does. If you don't like meditation that's fine. Make your own thread about stuff you hate instead of insulting one of the board's kindest members, you fucking prick. What's the matter with you? barcode, since you want to approach everything from a scientific viewpoint, or 'common sense' as you say, how would you explain the extreme and obvious changes in brainwave patterns that can be measured while one is meditating? Saying 'there is no higher state' shows how you choose to make everything as simple as you can. Please, enlighten us and tell us what reality really looks like. I'm sure you can draw a picture of it. |
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but what are the concrete specifics of meditation? how do you know when you have achieved it, and could people come in trances all the time naturally from outside things like music, drugs, rest or whatever? |
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ive also returned to meditation in recent weeks .. im pleased to say that its becoming easier even after a few years on and off. i had a brief encounter with the outer nimitas a few mornings ago. basically i got to the point where i had signed off my physical sensations and thoughts. i felt an expanding, rushing sort of sensation, while i watched or sensed a mass of unfolding white threads across the space. when this happens, it feel it supports the concept of a mind beyond the body and the mental contents. as it usually happens, the thoughts return out of curiosity, asking what the sensation is. thats when i get dragged back into thought and away from the mind. i understand the trick is to maintain focus upon that moment of stillness. its just such a delicate thing when that stillness lies below thought in itself! as its said, one cant force jhana. only by relinquishing all control can it be possible .. |
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if you are really interested in it, you should buy a book about it, visit a website, keep an open mind and just try it. try sitting on a pillow, turn off the music, the lights and just focus on breathing, and nothing but that. Set a timer and see if you can just sit there for 5 minutes. the fact that this is extremely hard tells you how much your mind is racing all the time. You might think this is ok, or you might not. I'm terrible at it myself, and i don't 'get' anything from meditation (yet) and might never do. Still sometimes it feels just great to just do nothing without a computer screen in front of you and without being asleep. |
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ive also been appreciating how we can reinforce no-self through our conscious actions, and our attitudes toward the world. the big stumbling block will always be ego. thinking that we know best. our ego forms all of our judgement. from judgement we become entrapped in the whole problem of labelling things in the world, characteristic of others, or things within ourselves, as being good or bad. from the moment we start judging things in this way, we seek to control them. an ongoing struggle to control things that we cannot is the root cause of stress and illness, disharmony and conflict. we forfeit our freedom. .. so ive been consciously working backward through these causes. my overreaching desire is for happiness and freedom. i know on a basic level that i must avoid short-term desires to control the things around me. that desire to control stems from the judgements i make. we should always ask yourselves, do we really know what is best? quickly enough, these judgements appear irrational. as judgement is deconstructed, i realise where it is all coming from. my ego, a foundation of craving. now the table is bare, i can really ask myself, what do i really want? the answer is freedom. the path returns full circle. |
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I'm glad to hear you are meditating and that you are benefitting from it :) I always find the act of sitting difficult/challenging, however I was surprised how smoothly I was lead to the point of no-self by the teacher. I really think the teachers made a huge difference to me. I had two of the most amazing people I have ever met as teachers over the three days. I have struggled to find teachers who expressed a degree of "realisation" in their actions....... lots of intellectual understanding, not so much "action". Not so much metta. |
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I'm still murky when it comes to integrating my experiences with my life, bringing understanding to (all of) my actions. To maintain awareness of my thoughts, and to quicky identify the action of my ego is a goal at the moment. And to live with forgiveness and patience. Small steps :) |
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oxymoron |
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"mum_ra, he wasn't boasting about anything. He was sharing an experience, something everybody on this board does. If you don't like meditation that's fine. Make your own thread about stuff you hate instead of insulting one of the board's kindest members, you fucking prick. What's the matter with you? " I didn't say that I don't like meditation. Meditation is something that I think a lot of people, including myself, benefit from. I just don't get the showiness, or why nice, english speaking people start adopting sanskrit greetings into their everyday vocabulary. Some of my "hardcore" buddhist friends do this type of thing, and it's really irritating. I wasn't insulting darkpromenade as much as being inflammatory in the hopes of getting an explaination for that god damn ridiculous saying. Also: darkpromenade might be one of the nicest people on this board, but from most of your posts, I can imagine that you are not. |
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"your mind doesn't meditate while you sleep. it's constantly active while you're dreaming. meditation is basically turning of the sub-conscious, clearing the mind of all thoughts." What I meant was the closest thing those bozos will get to what they call a state of meditation was by going to sleep. You cannot "turn off" the subconcious, that's like saying turn off the heart - you will die. The brain is an organ, and thought derives from it. You cannot force yourself into not thinking about something, because thought is the only instrument you have to put that condition into action. How can thought not think about thought? The whole concept is absurd. Meditation is simply another result of human boredom. The body doesn't need to meditate and it doesn't want to meditate - the body doesn't want anything that your thoughts want. It's only function is to eat, replicate then reassemble the atoms through death, anything you superimpose on top of that is meaningless nonsense as far is the body is concerned. If you want reality, strip away your bogus philosophies and ideologies, as all they do is cover up reality. Eventually you end up a religious retard. Perhaps reality is not exciting enough for human beings, they have to dream up alternative ways of existing or "being" where there is none. Life is very simple indeed. You are an animal, your body behaves like all the other animals, the fact that you have consciousness does not give you license to believe you are better or more important than a flea or a slug because you're not. They don't need to "meditate" and neither do you. |
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"Life is very simple indeed. You are an animal, your body behaves like all the other animals, the fact that you have consciousness does not give you license to believe you are better or more important than a flea or a slug because you're not." I completely agree with you. :) |
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I also agree darkpromenade, but I don't think that means that we shouldn't kill mosquitoes or anything that's alive. That's idea, but there's no species on earth that doesn't have some detrimental effect on another species' population. Or is there? I don't know... Anyway... I'm not going to give up killing mosquitoes anytime soon. |
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Barcode: How do you feel about trancelike states? Meditative states don't nescessarily have to come with all this dogmatic spiritual stuff. There are a lot of reasons that I agree with what you're saying, though. I'm generally very skeptical about organized religions. |
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At the local Tibetan Buddhist center... It's like going to a Chinese restaurant! I wish we had some of those centers here that sounds like an interesting experience. |
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But yeah... Once you get into a "p'zone", time certainly doesn't work the same way as does in a "normal" (Its hard to say what this is) frame of mind. It's something thats great to think about, that subjective compression and expansion of time. |
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i have great faith in the awareness of the mind. ive gone from being buried in thought, really at the mercy of it, to understanding it so much better. i had a difficult week leading up to christmas, but through making a point of understanding and forgiving the situation early on, everyone involved feels a lot better. perhaps even better than before. after all, as i heard in a dhamma talk, 'unforgiveness is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die'! i have to thank my first meditation teacher for showing me the technique, while i feel like ive been mentored by . his talks have been life changing. |
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