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 (nobody)...and 155 guests Last 5 registered Oplandisks nothingstar N_loop yipe foxtrotromeo Browse members... |
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Members 8025Messages 2614263 Today 10 Topics 127551 |
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i dont know, bin laden is kinda right on a lot of his issues...or is he |
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"You have destroyed nature with your industrial waste and gases more than any other nation in history. Despite this, you refuse to sign the Kyoto agreement so that you can secure the profit of your greedy companies and*industries" "That which you are singled out for in the history of mankind, is that you have used your force to destroy mankind more than any other nation in history; not to defend principles and values, but to hasten to secure your interests and profits. You who dropped a nuclear bomb on Japan, even though Japan was ready to negotiate an end to the war. How many acts of oppression, tyranny and injustice have you carried out, O callers to freedom?" "You have starved the Muslims of Iraq, where children die every day. It is a wonder that more than 1.5 million Iraqi children have died as a result of your sanctions, and you did not show concern. Yet when 3000 of your people died, the entire world rises and has not yet sat down. Sure he has some good points. Most of it is bullshit tho.. Like this for example. "We call you to be a people of manners, principles, honour, and purity; to reject the immoral acts of fornication, homosexuality, intoxicants, gambling's, and trading with interest." |
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there was a thread about this a while ago.... let me see if I can find a link. |
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That wasn't about the LETTER was it ? |
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DOAGH! *HITS HIMSELF IN THE HEAD* *acts mentallly retarded* daaaaaaaaeeeeeerrrrr! SILLY ME but I still think some things said in there apply to this. |
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sounds like he is trying to stir things up, add fuel to the fire, get some propaganda going so that people will be even more angry at eachother. I think that what he said is fairly true.... but there are other ways to handle diplomatic foriegn affairs, violence is never an option... blatantly killing innocent people, and trying to justify it. The world is filled with unjustice and cruelty. It doesnt have to be, but people like osama and bush are making it nearly impossible for people to live their lives without having it thrown in their face. Osama and bush are the same in my book. Killing people, starting wars, trying to justify it... its all bullshit. I think Bush is the lesser of the evil's because he is just after oil control in the Middle East, and after the money and stock value that comes with it. American intellegence is not all that great, so there are going to make mistakes (a bit to many in afganistan) and hurt innocent people, but Bush and the people in the white house are not trying to go out of their way and hurt innocent people like osama is thinking about doing and doing all the time... People need to get off their high hourses, and all meet just one on one. All political leaders... and just fight it out, beer bottle smashing, missing tooth dirty bar fight action. And deal with it that way, instead of having to drag innocent people into this shit. |
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"but Bush and the people in the white house are not trying to go out of their way and hurt innocent people like osama is thinking about doing and doing all the time..." yes, hundreds of thousands of innocent dead Iraqis was just a mistake... and clusterbombs only target the bad guys... |
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"yes, hundreds of thousands" - I want to hear exact numbers... cause you know.. I havent really heard any thing consistant..... and yes, some targets... like their military air base.. were taken out with cluster bombs seriously... does anyone know EXACTLY how many casualties were due to the U.S, as of RECENT times (two years ago and on), I doubt the internet has such credibly info... but there has to be some site that has somewhat believable figueres Believe it or not, american intellegence is that stupid... the white house wants quick results with bush in office... mistakes were made, but believe it or not, people in the white house do not intentionally go out of their way to hurt innocent people. As way out and as far fetched as that sounds..... |
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like specific events... dates, times where people have been killed... I am going to try and do some research and see if I can figuere it out cause I think everyone is lieing about this.... and streatching the truth a bit |
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i know like 2 things about politics it bores me and i know nothing about it |
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i think there are some very true parts in this think about it... america responded to violence because the british taxed us... here we are literally killing (directly and inderectily) millions of people, stealing from them, and having them live like shit. id say its fair for them to act. i dont condone violence, but lets be realistic. if you were living in caves, and were living in horrible conditions, would you just sit back while some country opresses you and lives happily? you are saying they are supposed to just be like "well, its wrong to kill, so lets not sink to thier level, and we'll just live miserably, and all be dead soon" |
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so?? |
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"I want to hear exact numbers" I'm curious about that too, that's why I picked a low estimate "does anyone know EXACTLY how many casualties were due to the U.S, as of RECENT times" that's hard to do since there are more and more every day... "but believe it or not, people in the white house do not intentionally go out of their way to hurt innocent people." No they hurt the innocent people to piss off the bad people |
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lol zeus who would be more responsible for your shitty life if u lived in afganistan (im talking pre-sept 11) america or a little club called the taliban?? or your local war lord? who would you fight against if you lived there? |
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"yes, hundreds of thousands of innocent dead Iraqis was just a mistake... and clusterbombs only target the bad guys... " yes laserbeak, you're absolutely right they LOVE targeting civilians for no reason other than to kill them after all, thats how you get good PR right? i mean, thats how you convince countries to support your war right? and your own population of course |
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I am not trying to in any way defend the U.S but zues: osama doesnt live in a cave, he is from a VERY rich family, has had a very good and expenisve education. All this money and power.... gone to what.....? He could have easily become a leader or person of high power in any country in the middle east, if not with his education, then with his money. Instead what did he decide to do......? "here we are literally killing (directly and inderectily) millions of people, stealing from them, and having them live like shit" how is my 9 - 5, or anyother common joe in america causing people in other countries to "live like shit". As I see it, a lot of peoples problems in other countries has to do with internal problems (greedy corupted selfish goverments like ours). Its not our job as a nation to go out and make sure everysingle living person on the planet is happy, I mean, we have enough problems in our country alone.... and look what happened when we tryed to help iraq with millitary supplies. Sadam became a dictating tight fisted leader and tryed to gender clense his country. IMO the U.S should just stick to their own problems like sweden and become nuetral to everything. That way no one will imediatly point the finger to us. |
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In July 1989 (before the sanctions), 387 children per month under the age of five died in Iraq. In July 1998 (after the sanctions), 6,495 children per month under the age of five died, a 16-fold increase from before the sanctions. from: http://www.geocities.com/iraqinfo/index.html?page=/iraqinfo /sanctions/sanctions.html |
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no not you with your 9-5, but the government sure the taliban have fucked up things, but i dont think americas greed and selfishness have helped. and no, osama doesnt live in a cave, but his followers do. sure, he could have been a leader somewhere, but he is fighting for principles he beleives to be worth fighting for. im not defending him, or agreeing with him. its just bullshit for america to be like "its not my fault, we have nothing to do with the problem" america has done VERY shitty stuff to everyone. its only natural people are goin to do things back. the media doesnt cover all the bad things the US does... but it covers all the bad things other countries do. |
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jesus... and you dont think that site has a biased opinion... jeez... that why I said "I doubt the internet has such credibly info" I am going to go to the library and see if I can gather some info that is non biased (from the U.S's and Iraqs point of view) "that's hard to do since there are more and more every day... " no war (millitary attack) is happening right now last time I checked.... the U.S military is just waiting in I would like to say.. Iran.. not sure. No deployments or bombing have taken place for a while (after the afganistan "conflict" hahaha, I cant believe they use that word.. ). And on public radio from washinton, an Iranian soldier shot 2 U.S soldiers... who were not even in action... so .. but there is no innocent person when your talking about it all.... no sides are guilt free here.... because they BOTH did violent and horrible things... and no matter how hard you try... you cannot justify violence |
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As much as I want to believe so, violence will never ever stop. Ever. I think it will fucking go on and on until the world ends. |
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"yes laserbeak, you're absolutely right they LOVE targeting civilians for no reason other than to kill them after all, thats how you get good PR right? i mean, thats how you convince countries to support your war right? and your own population of course" again: No they hurt the innocent people to piss off the bad people. The trick is to focus on the danger of the bad people and neglect to inform us about the consequences of this tactic |
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" but he is fighting for principles he beleives to be worth fighting for. " That is great, I am all for fighting for what you believe in... but I would think you could do it in a non violent way. In WW2 and in countless other wars that have happened in the past... both sides were not innocent... and most all of the big international powers took part. So its not like other countries have done horrible things as well. The U.S has done a great deal of horrible things.... but people get confused when you talk politics, they confuse our goverment, with the common person working a 9 - 5 trying to get by and live his/her life, and they way that Iraq's goverment confuses people to think that all americans are bad.. and that its the land of the "great satan", that doesnt help things. And is unfair.. That is such bunk laserbeak, seriously but whatever... talking politics on a message board is pointless... yes it gets to express a different side of it, but the internet in general is to biased for political discussion. Especially International politics... Propaganda is thrown all over the place (world) and its a trick to see through the shit, some people just cant do it very well |
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"jesus... and you dont think that site has a biased opinion... jeez... that why I said "I doubt the internet has such credibly info" I am going to go to the library and see if I can gather some info that is non biased" Be sure that if you don't like the number you don't automatically call it biased. But I think it's a good initiative, when you know the exact number I would like to know too "no war (millitary attack) is happening right now last time I checked.... " conflict, people are still dying because of the conflict indirectly and radioactivity. |
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"That is such bunk laserbeak, seriously" WTF I haven't written any of the stuff you mentioned above that sentence... and if this was a reaction to the other stuff I wrote I thank you for your humble opinion. |
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I dont need to have other people to tell me to be non biased. I have been taking political science and philosophy classes for 2 years straight now (another 4 if you count highschool). And if that doesnt convince you enough, my best fried from work was from Iraq, so I got to hear boths sides of the story quite often. Dont assume *cough*laserbeak*cough*. Thats what gets people in so much trouble all the time when your discussing politics. I am going to go out later today to the library and see if I can get some valid numbers, with references and specific information (also works for extra credit in class, bonus!). Want me to email you when I come up with the statistics Laserbeak? *and now for something completly different* why do people bring up politics on a music message board so much? |
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oops my bunk comment laserbeak was to this: "again: No they hurt the innocent people to piss off the bad people. The trick is to focus on the danger of the bad people and neglect to inform us about the consequences of this tactic " and I reiterate with this: "Propaganda is thrown all over the place (world) and its a trick to see through the shit, some people just cant do it very well " |
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OK you're Iraqi friend and your education has convinced me that you're unbiased "Want me to email you when I come up with the statistics Laserbeak?" Sure, make sure you also count the people who died as a result of the sanctions. My emailadress is visible in my details "and I reiterate with this: Propaganda is thrown all over the place (world) and its a trick to see through the shit, some people just cant do it very well" I fully agree with this. |
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Ya thats a quote from my grandma shes really cool is your email the same one in your profile? |
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Oh shit I'll change it to public again... sorry about that |
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and and otherrs have been drrawing attention to Amerricas contrradictions and bullshit forr yearrs but we don't drrive planes into thierr building and kill innocent people. so fuck him and his letterr. |
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i and otherrs **** |
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i thought it was the proclaimers wrote letter to america |
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i dont get how its America's fault for Iraqi's starving child, the number which goes up with every post on this board. Iraq can easily comply with UN resolutions if it is so concerned with its people. If they are so concerned then use the bilions they make from oil to feed these children. No instead everyone choses to blame America instead. All these countries that are reluctant to goto war with Iraq (France / Russia yea who invest money in Iraq only care about losing their investments come war ) why dont they solve the big problems facing Iraq if they are so concerned. The truth is Hussein doesn't care about his people, only his own power- if he did care why not hold democratic elections? Instead of developing chemical warfare why doesnt he spend some money buying some food for his people ? |
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nah america kills people in a slow, more subdued way, keeping media coverage as far away as possible, so the real deathcount can't really be made.. |
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because there isn't a lot to buy if there are sanctions. anyway, a lot of the countries you mention want to solve "the big problems facing Iraq" but they think war is not it. |
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yea, war may not be the solution and hopefully these weapons inspectors can acuallyt prevent that.. but to sit back and say iraq isn't going to use these weapons is kinda rediculous. After 911 to seriously ignore the problem will just make the next 911 inevitable and then the consequences / loss of life will be even greater |
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everything is americas fault... it's our (american) corporations who pay shit in third world countries so our rich american kids can play with crappily made g.i.joes, that make a profit of almost 800% labor included they're also financing recylcing commercials to make the average joe think that he has something to do with the hole in the ozone layer (he actually does, by supporting said companies- but they're the ones shooting the gun) and of course american currency, television, drugs (yes, drugs, not the illegal ones, the ones that you're supposed to give your kids if they do bad in school- and the ones you're supposed to take when smoking too many cigarettes has made you damn near impotent) bottom line is- we're ass holes, we've stolen everything we have, and we're unwilling to admit even the possibility that our "morals and ideals" (i've never heard mention of these before in a court of law, but apparently they're really big things) are incorrect, ill conceived, and based on a book translated through so many languages i'd be suprised if 2 words in the whole thing lined up with the original hebrew ... well i'm done for now, think i'll go eat a big mac, smoke a cigarette, and beat up some foreign kid- you can all sleep soundly knowing that i'm what's wrong with america |
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diemax- agreed |
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I totally see and agree where you are coming from diemax. sweat shops, foriegn trade relations .... all that America doesnt HAVE to be the super power of the world (lets not kid ourselves here... because it obviously is). I think it would be neat to see another country handle it all. Japan maybe... that would be great. American politics are shady, and the CIA launders drug money, the president is an ex alchohalic (has the iq of a frog), we have a president and vice president in office that is "cracking down on big buisness", when in fact dick cheney's company is being investigated for company fraud. But I wouldnt have to look that hard for a country that did not have problems or curruption loads of problems everywhere (more in the U.S)... but lets see some other countries step up and (I hate to say it) be as hard working as us. From McDonalds, Apple Computer, IBM... to Ford Motors, Nike... all of these companies origionally just started out small and offered quality goods, and ideas that were born in america. Japan has some amazing things coming from it. But its the common joe the idealist, the inventor, that made the world turn. Somehow it got turned and twisted and corupted and politicians have leeched onto that and harnessed it, and it stopped being about quality and good service *cough* ford motors, mcdonalds..*cough*, and money and power becomes more important now. And there are sweat shops in america.... go to any U.S big buisness: lucky's, supermarket.. and youll see it "so the real deathcount can't really be made.." maybe not, but by averaging numbers... and finding a good source of information it could be possible (talking about 2000 on here..) |
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well.. Germany is a good contender.. and Japan ofcourse, as you say.. well the thing with the deathcount is, the deathcount of, for example, the Gulf war is still changing.. |
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