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ok, so I just saw this movie today... I heard it was really good... but honestly, I thought it was godaweful. I can see like a bunch of "intellectual" coffee house types sitting around saying how amazing it is. But to me, it was like, ok, so we hear about different philosophies... and OH LOOK! SPECIAL EFFECTS! without the effects, i would have fallen asleep. Not that I dont care for philosophy, or dont understand it... but the movie wasnt making any points at all. It was just like, here are some thoughts that have already been thought about. i dunno. what do you guys think? |
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never bothered with it |
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Philosophy is bunkum. |
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i know some stupid punk girl who's obsessed with this movie. it seems really watered down though, borderline trite. i forgive the writers and producers though because at least they've managed to make an impression on the apathetic crowd. hopefully they've picked up something useful. |
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Tits, I know people who are obsessed with American Beauty. Before that movie they never knew there was wind. Or plastic bags. |
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oh yea, i know those people too. i *pauses and sighs, dark secret time..* used to post on the nin.com board and there were so many american beauty fanatics on that board. apparently it's a really radical and revolutionary perspective and that no other movie has ever challenged the norms of society. also, the home camera vignettes were so surreal and non-hollywood, which is really brave of them to do. i dunno why you're dissing it. ;) |
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HA HA just saw American Beauty again last night. that whole plastic bag thing is such crap. you can hear the writer thinking.. "oh okay, this kid is kind of weird, BUT artsy, so he has to film something kind of deep and meaningful - I KNOW, a plastic bag, blowing in the wind.." pff.. I don't get how people fall for that.. "a plastic bag.. wow.. such a beautiful metaphor for.. um.." |
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all the teenage girl nin fans were in love with that character, pretty pitiful |
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I kept hoping the repressed gay army guy would come back and fuck the hole in Kevin Spacey's skull. |
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also "amazing" are the talented mr. ripley, cruel intentions, and 10 things i hate about you. very SMART movies. also, the matrix -- now that one will make you think!! also american pie cos it's, like, sooooo funny :) |
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I hate how the "american beauty"-character (can't remember whats she's called), the one Spacey drools over, says shes had all these guys and then in the end, she's still a virgin. what a cop out. oh no, girls can say they hump a lot of guys but they don't actually DO it.. |
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in comparison to these films, how has "the rules of attraction" done..? haven't seen it yet. |
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haven't seen it yet either i dunno, i actually didn't mind the point they were making with the blonde girl. that a lot of the girls in high school who have the reputation for being sexually sophisticated and highly sought after are just liars. i must admit, all the movies i mentioned (with the exceptions of waking life and 10 things, neither of which i've seen) had some merit to them. they're good starting points but kids need to see better movies.. |
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waking life had no real purpose. it did bring up some cool philosophies to thoink about and all but the movie did nothing really. Dazed and Confused is by the same guy and is a much better movie. Its more of a movie and still has these philosophical ideas although its not thrown in your face. its jsut about highschool in the 70s with hazing and drugs lol watch it! |
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dazed and confused is sooooooo pointless. there's another one i don't get. |
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Good film, lots of food for thought. A bit artsy and pretentious, but those qualities aren't necessarily bad in my book. |
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Zeus: I totally agree with you on this one, my girlfriend's friend told her and I to watch it, so we did. I couldnt stand it, it was like talking about stuff - and it didnt lead anyone anywhere, ever. It was like discussing it just for the sake of discussing it and sounding cool about yourself. Like its so "mature", and deep thoughted conversations that are really one dimensional. It was just a horrible movie, trying WAY too hard to be different, something it wasnt. |
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Another movie that was just talking about stuff was My Dinner with Andre. But it worked. It was terrrific. One of my longtime favorite movies. It's just two guys yacking in a restaurant, yet it rivets your attention for the length of the film. The end of that movie introduced me to Erik Satie. |
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i LOVED Waking Life..... then again i was stoned out of my box when i saw it. It´s very funny, the wobbly toaters/tables/skies etc are amazing and i felt like it was done in a "fuck.. wish i though of that" style. Linklates other film.. "before Sunrise", was a breath of fresh air in the "rom-com" genre especially depicting an intelligent american abroad and the fucking whole idea of the film "Waking Life" representing the dream'state was trite to some of you.. clever to me. At the timeit came out, i loved American beauty but seing it oin video recently its lost its edge but that first dasy of release.. it was magic. By the way.. i took on board a freind philosophy of ignoring all media hypè about movies and trust close freinds opinions and going to films blind... Fuck they hype, chaps... enjoy something on its own merits as much as possible. |
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ah well..everyone's a critic.. i liked waking life if you get past the pretentiousness (which is an over-used word, methinks) and preachy-ness its a gorgeous movie, visually at least.. and some of the conversations were interesting .. its not that i've based my life philosophy on this movie or any movie for that matter... but at least its thoughtful... there's so many completely and often blatantly vapid movies these days... i liked american beauty at first also.. i suppose seeing it again, the sentimentality is a bit much.. but it did have some valid points.. having said that.. neither are my favorite movies by far..of course there's plenty of better ones.. but i think that the fact that they're more accessable.. and make a lot of people think who normally wouldn't cant be half bad... of course...you've all reached a state of enlightenment far higher than the rest of the bumbling fools on this planet.. so these movies probably seem inane.. but hey, everyone has to start somewhere i dunno... i'm never too critical about most movies (unless they're really bad...).. i tend not to notice the things that make movies seem contrived to people but.. im probably just too naive to make valid judgments on such things |
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wayout... i hear ya. As for Waking life.... that scene where theres a drunk Irishman talking shite in a bar got the cinema here roaring laughing cos its an Irish stereotype thats fucking 100 percent true! Interestingly, I saw "K-pax" yesterday and enjoyed it although a bit of me dodn´t want to. The basic story was good enough for me although i could think of a billion better, non-sanitised ways of doing it. Sometimes ya gotta drop the cynical mindset and place yourself in a world with no Hollywood or be a kid again... |
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do you look at a painting and say "it's nothing but visual effects"? saying "without the effects, i would have fallen asleep" is a bit like saying "without all those melodious pitch changes prettying up the percussion, the song would have put me to sleep." it is art, not a philosophical thesis, and i think you may have missed the point. the philosophy and the visuals were working together to create a feeling, beyond the philosophies or the techniques used to animate. its the type of film that if you want to think deep about it, do it after the fact. during the movie you just have to go with it and feel what the creators are doing. it really is a beautiful film. |
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you actually say "the creators"..? anyway, haven't seen the film, so I'll shut up. |
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lol, sorry, i'll list them all: director, actors, producers, computer visual folks, musicians... no, the creators. |
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yeah well "the creators" sounds so pretentious to me, thats why I mention it.. |
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I think Pherell* from the Neptunes would make great jungle music. * Dont know how to spell this. |
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i see now, i didn't mean it like that though. i use the term quite often. |
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i don't think the movie was anything to tell the world about, i just enjoyed it personally, and i notice the criticisms that it gets are usually a result of missing the point. |
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why, cos he's a "jungle bunny"? :/ anyway, i disagree. timbaland maybe, but pharrell is split between soul and club bangers. nothing too fast. |
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than a good piece of criticism could be that it doesn't convey its point very well. I mean, that sends out the wrong signals, like "this is a special effect-y movie" or something.. again, I haven't seen it, so... |
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jipitah, i disagree with everything you said to me |
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i suppose it's possible that it didn't convey its point well but i and those got into it happened to get it just happened to get it. but i felt the point was very explicit actually, and not getting it was due to examination, expectations, weariness of the pretentious (i agree with wayout that this word is used way to often) or inhibitions. it seems that a lot of films that are not as much intellectual as much as they about a more abstract experience based on emotion (not unlike music, especially lyricless music) seem to get similar negative responses from people. dancer in the dark is an example. if you didn't want to experience at the emotional level what selma went through (it is alot to take on and process) then you might have trouble enjoying the film. i think similar arguements can be made for why people don't like the new sigur ros album. if you can't get into it, you can't get into it and there is nothing wrong with not liking it, but people are calling it pretentious, which is simply not true. |
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ok. but do you think there could possibly be more to the movie than the separate pleasures of philosophical speculations and interesting visuals? |
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no. i think they used both of them just to seem cool. on the one hand they are like "oooh soo deep" but also "ohhhh so prettty" but it just didnt work. it was pointless. |
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maybe so, in which case i fabricated the experience i had, which happened to correspond to others' experience of the film. it was a great fabrication ;) |
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we all have different perceptions |
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Ok... Anybody who has had a lucid dream and then had to go on living their "waking life" is going to love this film... ...if they don't go see it with their head full of prejudgements and malformed opinions of a movie they haven't seen. I Loved and still Love this flick. The only thing that comes close for me would be The Holy Mountain by Jorodowsky...but don't go see it cause it's been done before and is foreign and pretentious. If you don't take to the film you don't, and it's pointless spite to rip into it because you don't like digital rotoscope, or can't remember your dreams when you wake up...if you ever wake up. The film is a remarkable acheivment. |
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disagree |
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What movies are original? What thought is original? What movies have real purpose? The Matrix was a great movie, but was also the most shallow rip-off of countless other good film, and novels. Come off it, really. You just couldn't get into it, eh Zeus. |
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i want my 2 hours back |
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fair enough zeus. deadwhite, i know exactly what you mean. no other film captures the feeling like waking does for me. when i walked out of the theater i felt exactly like i do when i wake up from a lucid or semi-lucid dream. the reality of where you are begins to sink in, but the feeling that characterizes the dream is still lingering a bit, slowly drifting. |
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it may have helped if you had seen it on big screen zeus. easier to be consumed by it. |
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I felt like I was coming up on acid after the first time I saw it. Big screen is better, unless you get motion sickness on long road trips... heh... I think Zeus probably spent better time there, than bitching about it here. Don't go see Solaris. It's arty and was done by a Russian, written by a Polish math-head. |
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they are remaking solaris. it looks really damn cool. didnt see the original though |
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The original Solaris (the film) was long and like almost hypnogogic. Tarkofsky (?) I think was the director. I liked it, but it was pretty much the Russian 2001. Stanislaw Lem, the writer, is amazing. He wrote the book, and it's heady, but alot of his stuff is along the lines of philisohpical Douglas Adams. If you thought Brave New World, or the Matrix were a head spin, try The Futurological Congress, or the Cyberiad! Hilarious until you realy start thinking about what you just read. |
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psychedelic indeed. |
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Lem? Did he write "The Perfect Vaccum?" If so I like this guy. |
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Was that the one about the "book reviews"? I'm almost possitive it's him. Yeah, great stuff, all around! |
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yes, thats it! i though my father was the only nut loopy enough to read such blasphemy. have you read any of his other stuff? if so, which shall i pick up? |
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Lem Thread... The Cyberiad is this collection of exploits of these two mechanical "creators" who create various machines that don't necessarily work out as designed. Very Science Fable-ish, allagorical and funny as shit. A machine that can build anything that begins with the letter "n" is challenged to build "nothing"...etc. The Star Diaries and The Futurolgical Congress are also satire and adventure, with main character Ijon Tichy flying about the galaxy in the Diaries, and contributing to a Futurologist Convention in Costa Rica during a revolution. The revolution is quelled by various pharmacological weapons...Kurt Vonnegot Jr (sp?) meets Orwell through WSBurroughs. Funny. Other stuff is deeper and more serious and I haven't read too much of that stuff...yet. |
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