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 Now online (1)dariusgriffin ...and 261 guests Last 5 registered Oplandisks nothingstar N_loop yipe foxtrotromeo Browse members... |
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Members 8025Messages 2614241 Today 10 Topics 127550 |
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well they got plenty of practice in WWII rounding up Japanese Americans post Pearl Harbour.. |
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:D,they never change......i was surprised at the camp near alaska which can hold up to 2 million people(quite hard to believe something that big).People should check out that link,its very interesting(it has pictures of the camps and letters and maps from the government about them). |
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yeah I am just going through it awesome link McCabe..cheers:) |
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I would shoot this guy in the head if I could. I just read an article outlining a new canadian bill pertaining to new anti-terrorism measures. Some proponent arguements basically say that "the americans are doing it, so can we". Like holy shit! Where do I live and what kind of lawfull reasoning is that!? |
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HeHe,no problem (and you spelt my name correctly,with the capitols in the right place ;-o )i have more links but ive got to go to work now :-(.......anyways see ya later,nice pic. flea,dont know wither its a turn on or not :D |
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9-11 sucks worse everyday. |
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very interesting indeed, though not very suprising. thanks |
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no probs..:) if yer turned on yer on..no shame in lovin plastic :) |
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VERY disturbing i must add... |
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not far off are the concentration camps in Australia for the asylum seekers and refugees...and now they have started raiding Indonesian Australians..particularly those with families and little children..in the name of poor victims of Bali.. |
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I wonder when they'll start gassing large groups of people in those camps. I'm sure they'll have an excuse for doing that by the time that becomes a normal procedure... |
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Wow. |
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even today, they're stalins everywhere. they're probably more clever nowadays and keep a more low profile, but they're out there and they have power... |
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the erosion of human rights is definetly headed in that direction...btw...gassing did get justified and applied in moscow..so you never know! |
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But that was different because they didn't mean to kill people with the gas... |
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WHOA!, so I get to reading it... I deeply question this, as much anything I read like it. I need multiple sources before I would quote any of this. Some of this is outrageous. |
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maybe not all but definetly the terrorists... |
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the erosion of human rights is definetly headed in that direction I don't think there is any erosion of human rights. How much we would like to think it is, it's just not getter better. Generally speaking imo, human rights were neglected in the past as much as they are now. |
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Well the gas used in the moscow incident was a non-lethal mixture when used on people of good health. But the combination of stress/lack of sleep/food/ whatever made many hostages sick from the gas and never wake up. What the police did actually was use the gas to knock out the terrorists so they could then assassinate them while they were unconcious. |
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"the erosion of human rights is definetly headed in that direction...btw...gassing did get justified and applied in moscow..so you never know! " WTF?? How could using gas in that type of scenario NOT be justified??? The entire place was wired to explode... PEOPLE were wired to explode!! What do you think?? That some trigger-happy special forces guys just wanted to have some fun by risking hundreds of lives with gas?? You think its that simple??? Something that would certainly provoke international attention and criticism?? Official inquiries, sensational media coverage, a PR nightmere that Russia can literally not afford right now! You think they fucking did it for FUN??? How naive.... Its not hard to set off a bomb tied around your waist. You push a fucking button. You need no more htan a split second's notice to do it. I don't know about you, but if I was in charge of the counter-terrorist forces at the scene and the whole world was watching me and my government, I would not want to take the chance that all 700 hostages plus counter-terrorist forces and emeergency workers could die in massive explosions. Using gas isn't pleasent but it was the safest course of action. ..there are a LOT worse ways that situation could have ended. The gas was a damn gentle, careful way of ending it, even if some ppl died. Siting around snivelling about human rights while the terrorists were excecuting hostage after hostage would have been a true trampling of human rights |
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Well, they used far too much gas, XLR, and then the doctors had no idea what kind of gas it was--maybe, since you must know what kind of gas it was (to know it was a non-lethal gas), you should have called them and told them. |
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Oh, they used far too much gas did they?? I'd like to see you calculate JUST the right amount of gas to pump into a huge building... JUST enough to knock out terrorists who have EVERY CONCIOUS intention of detonating explosives they have attached to their bodies... while leaving 90 year old theatre-goers with heart conditions who have been under the most stressful situation in their entire lives for 3 days straight with not enough food and water. I'm sure you'll agree that when terrorists who are ready to die literally have their fingers on the button that will kill hundreds... its better to be safe than sorry even if safe means killing some people... sorry is.. well, much worse If XLR should call the doctors to tell them what kind of gas it was, then you should have called to tell the spec force just how much to use. |
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Hey, AMinal, the Chechens were NOT "executing hostage after hostage" --there had been one hostage killed a few hours before that. Why don't you list the amount of people killed by the Chechens compared to number of people killed by the Russians? And expand that to how many Chechens have died in Chechnya at the hands of the Invading Russians? And, unless the gas knocked everyone unconscious IMMEDIATELY, then the Chechens with explosives wired to themselves, would have had time to have utilised them, since "You need no more htan a split second's notice to do it." [sic]... You can't say "the terrorists were going to do this, the terrorists were going to kill everyone blah blah blah" because that's just your conjecture, and not fact... the Russians killed hundreds of people, the Chechans didn't... maybe it was the desperate act of a desperate group of people---but shit--if some bullyboy country was occupying your own for years after your neighbours were 'graciously granted' their own independence, with the rest of the world seemingly not giving a shit about it, wouldn't you be a bit fucking desperate and pissed-off? Or is Occupation legitimate and valid when the Western World don't give a shit? |
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and btw: "Russia's government has revealed the type of gas used to subdue Chechen militants who were holding more than 750 people hostage in a Moscow theater. Health Minister Yurii Shevchenko said today that the gas was Fentanyl, a potent opium-based narcotic used as an anaesthetic." |
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Difference is, whilst XLR appears to condone using gas in the first place, I don't--what was heralded as a great triumph at the time, is being seen for the shambles it really is; Putin fucked up--he should take Russian troops out of Chechnya and leave them the fuck alone |
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well why didn't the Health Minister pass this information to the doctors--it would have been a bit more useful then, eh? |
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LOL please read more carefully before you tear appart my responses what i said was: "Siting around snivelling about human rights while the terrorists were excecuting hostage after hostage WOULD HAVE BEEN a true trampling of human rights" would have been ....as in, its a hypothetical situation thank god they only got the chance to excecute one hostage, as you said "And expand that to how many Chechens have died in Chechnya at the hands of the Invading Russians? " how is this of ANY relevence??? are you saying they were justified in threatening hundreds of civilian lives? and btw i think that when you take over a threatre with 750+ people in it, prepared it with enough explosives to bring down teh whole building, or at least kill everyone inside, strap explosives to YOURSELF then dispurse your suicide bombers evenly through the hostages when you sense trouble, change the location of the explosives after ever visitor leaves, repeat constantly that you are ready and willing to die, and let foriegn nationals, children, and muslims go.... ....well, considering all that, i think its pretty safe to believe that these terrorists mean business |
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yeah it would have been quite helpful, i dont know why they kept the info from the doctors.... from what i know of the situation, i would think that they should have told the doctors too bad its too late now and too bad it has nothign to do with whether they were justified in using the gas in the first place |
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"what was heralded as a great triumph at the time, is being seen for the shambles it really is; Putin fucked up" no its not there hasn't been any excessive international political pressure or crticism no cries for economic sanctions or some international tribunal of human rights trial you know why? oh, its its because theres nothing to criticise |
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the large scale political enviroment has nothing to do with this its completely irrelevent this was a small scale tactical situation where life is weighed per individual being threatened which country is independant or not has nothing to do with it the terrorists' political motivations are irrelevent and should hold no weight when considering the best way to sort out a VERY dangerous situation the only factors being considered, and should be considered, were isolated to that building and the people inside (and of course people directly involved but physically removed from teh situation but i don thtink i have to say that) threatening hundreds of lives is not a valid political strategy for gaining independance and so gaining independance is not a valid concern when dealing with the threatening of hundreds of lives |
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*phew* lol |
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I hardly based my whole response on that one little hypothesis of yours--and fuck yeah, I think the whole situation and what led up and caused this Hostage situation if relevant--what kind of moron would ignore the fact that the Russians have been occupying Chechnya and killing Chechnans, in their own country, who have the impertinece to want their freedom. Like I said, how would you feel if some bullish country rampaged and occupied yours, killing relatives and countrymen who want their freedom while the rest of the world looks on and does nothing? Would you just sit back and snivel about human rights, or would you be moved into action? I don't know how the conclusion was viewed over there in Canada, but in Europe, it's been highly criticised since. |
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On your argument there, the US war of Independance wasn't valid--and neither has any war of independence, which relies on threatening the lives of people... Also, you think it's A-OK for the Russians to be threatening the lives of Chechens in Chechnya to keep them in check and not independant? Also, can you confirm something--Are you in favour of Russian Occupation of Chechnya, or not? And, if not, what do you suggest this oppressed country does for freedom when the world leaders are ignoring its plight? |
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could you please explain how i suggested that the American War of Independence wasn't legitimate? Or how what i said could even be applied to that? i was talking about dealing with a SPECIFIC situation in which lives of civilians are at risk. situations in which terrorists deliberately and specifically target civilian lives THAT is NOT a legitimate tactic no matter what the cause please dont twist my words into sweeping generalizations that condem any fight for independance, which is obviously not what i meant. terrorism is not a legitimate chanel for any political change i NEVER said or meant that the political change they want in the first place is not legitimate |
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