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and before you get started, i'm not talking about new order. forget about them. i'm talking about ian curtis joy division. had he not killed himself and the band kept going for a few years where they left off at "love will tear us apart" (their last and biggest single), could the band have prevented the hair metal invasion and bad synthesizer-treated pop (not to be confused with the genre of "synth-pop")? if so, i think that would have changed the direction of music in the 90s, whether or not joy division kept going after 1989. it's interesting to think about. to clarify, i'm not hypothesizing that joy division would have went multi-platinum if ian curtis hadn't offed himself. i think they would have continued to garner critical success (provided that their label(s) stopped pushing for "hits" and adding synth melodies over top of finished recordings) and attained the commercial success that new order received. however, i don't think they would have sounded like new order (who, for a band that's mostly the same members, sound quite different). i think their future songs would've been as sincere and trend-defying as ever but the audience would've caught onto their music. what do you think? |
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80's saw some crushingly powerful industrial, No Wave(Sonic Youth, Lydia Lunch, SWANS), some excellent goth, (Siouxsie etc) cool synth based stuff (Depeche Mode,FAD Gadget not to mention ACID HOUSE anyone?)....and ended with the best and tastiest of Grunge..pre Nevermind...so as far as I am concerned the 80's were a resounding success..infact there wont be a WARP if there were no 80's multi-platinum sellers exist in addimetdly overwhelming but still a totally parallel and detached existence for me..and none of what the Hair Metallers perpetrated is any worse than Limp DipShits..or Creed or KORN |
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flea: you're absolutely right! there was tons of amazing stuff in the '80s. some of my favorite artists made their best work during that decade. i prolly should've phrased my topic differently, cos i don't think the '80s were bad at all, but i gave in to the fact that most people cringe at '80s music. to continue my train of thought, i wasn't making the assumption that ALL music in the '80s sounded like what was popular on the radio and mtv. however, subversive/non-mainstream is obviously not as influential on the music "industry" and the masses as the mainstream. which brings me back to my question: could joy division have crossed over to the mainstream and change the course of music as we knew it? |
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Hmm, I'd say Ian Curtis, though not likely to have changed a genre, would've commanded a bit more respect than he ever earned. There'd be Ian Curtis things on VH1, more Joy Division covers, and he probably would've generated a large enough fan base in the US to stay near the top of the charts. |
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i totally think they would've had the reputation in the '80s that radiohead got in the '90s (with the difference being joy division's album is revered as a classic and radiohead's, well, let's just say not a classic) |
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rocket from the crypt, anyone? |
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sorry guys Joy Division sucks balls |
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shit... and all this time i thought they were good. i feel so embarassed right now. thanks for setting me straight, cfern. autechre rule btw. |
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I've listened to nothing but Joy Division for two days, and boned up on my Joy trivia... I get extremely obsessive when I get into new music. But I can't say just how good they are yet, till I give them time... but fuck, been a while since I heard music that felt this ''right'' to me... awesome stuff, I would do anything to have 10 more years worth of JD output. Definitely would have been a bright spot in those damned 80's... I'm not a big fan of that decade. |
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i downloaded 5 joy division music videos today, all awesome. anyone know if there's a video for "new dawn fades"? that's my favorite. |
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Tits: Agreed - Ian had lots more to say, and the fact he killed himself over a love-related incident is even more sad. I never knew they had 5 videos - I've only seen "Love Will Tear Us Apart" a few times. What were the other tracks? |
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Great thread, tits....wish it wasn't 4:50am or I'd do a longer reply but heres some random insomniac thoughts... If JD had been that successful I doubt the Hacienda would ever have been built...JD weren't that sort of band, but New Order were...go figure... And the effect that one club had on UK (& worldwide) culture is huge... JD meant a lot to me & yeah, I cried when that suicide shit went down....but it was gonna happen with him sooner or later; the guy was a very ill bloke & this may sound heartless, but that was the key to the JD... And the thought of them becoming the 80s Radiohead was probably what pushed him over the edge... "Oh Manchester, so much to answer for" - have fun spotting that lyric...:).. |
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I watched the video for Love Will Tear Us Apart on Rollingstone.com today... I love boring bands that stand there and don't put on a show. Curtis was so introverted and awkward. Cool like ice. |
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thom yorke stole his trance-dance. bernard sumner and the drummer put on a great show just playing their instruments. they fucking rock in those 5 videos i have. |
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joyrex: love will tear us apart atmosphere decades shadowplay transmission i got them all off soulseek. contact me if you have trouble locating any of them, i can send them to you. decades might be labeled "terrible" in parenthesis cos it's ripped from an early 80s vhs tape, but i found that kind of charming. |
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I dont know the movie 24 hr party people kinda spoiled the pristeen image of Ian Curtis for me..now when I pitcure him I keep seeing the face of that actors ugly spastic face... kinda bummy |
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No they couldn't have. Did Aphex save us from '90s pop domination? |
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i'm kinda glad i didn't see that movie i think afx and jd are a terrible comparison... |
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Really... I've only seen LWTUApart, and he didn't do anything tap his foot, and actually turned AWAY from the camera when it was his guitar part. :-) Yeek. But yeah, I read about his spastic seizures on stage... but I've yet to see a live video of them. I guess that WOULD be quite a show... But music videos were boring back then. I bet they weren't too into it, anyway... a bit disinterested. |
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joy division is great but i really don't think ANYTHING could have prevented the hair metal :((( it's just one of the signs of the end i'd say :) |
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download the clips off me, mr. phecks. the only one w/o the band is "atmosphere" (which combines footage of robed people walking around in scening places with photos sequenced together to "seem" like band footage) also i can't get files to download off you now for some reason |
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"Oh Manchester, so much to answer for" smiths - suffer little children another great manchester band. just to stay on topic, joy division is great but too bleak to listen to on a regular basis ... usually I listen to New Order but that's highly dependent on mood |
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JOy Division are EASILY one of the best bands of the 80's.... Top 5 easy...They RULE.... |
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i love both.....new order and joy division! my moods drive the music i listen to...i usually listen to happy stuff when i'm down and vice versa. some songs can really put in you in the major dumper! ians voice is just wonderful....emotional |
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I know What you mean, nowadays the whale is pretty happy, so upbeat New Order is in the playlist. But you have to be careful, upbeat New Order tracks are often dirges in disguises ... |
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the spastic seizures were because the guy was epileptic... and IW...what a song that was!!!...The Smiths are probably my fave band from my youth...Hatful of Hollow literally saved my sanity as a teenager.... hehe...And Mozza was probably my first ever crush.... :)... |
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yea i know..... i dunno if thom is as well. i don't think his "crazy dance"'s similarity to ian's convulsions are purely coincidental. |
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If you're interested, watch a film called 24Hour Party People, all about the rise and fall of Factory Records and the Manchester scene of the mid-80's to early 90's. It's an enjoyable, occasionally funny film dealing with such bands as Joy Division, New Order and Happy Mondays. Worth checking out. |
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