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the first few pages of my bullshit thread were me tearing apart the concept of intuition into component parts back in 2016. mindfully catching myself having an intuition w/rt to this or that and very excitedly tearing apart where exactly it came from, because i'd realized it was possible for me to do this and i'd simply never bothered before. |
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the thing is that intuition in animals is a very observable thing, if you try to run over your pet with you car it will move away because it understands intuitively that it is time to get the fuck out of there. they have and intuition for how things will go about. even if birds were only following something else they would do so intuitively, meaning they would have the intuition to follow that certain something. we humans are able of abstraction but that does not make us any freer than animals why are only dealing with more information, but to an outside observer with enough information our behavior would seem as deterministic and constant as any other animal, even as regular as causality itself. "similar incorrect assumption is that competition for resources is the primary driver of evolution. that matters, but what really accelerates things is species interacting with each other -- not just competition, but all being puzzle pieces part of a larger shared picture" indeed! this idea of evolution as competition could only germinate in the minds of people living under capitalism, whom having internalized the competition and exploitation inherent in that economic and political system then projected it to nature as a whole. do you think druids would have thought of competition in nature as anything but piss? the very fact that we have soil and an atmosphere, is sufficient to show the predominance of collaboration in nature, as these two things (which set the stage for any further collaboration or competition to happen) are products of biological collaboration between countless individuals. |
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the thing is that intuition in animals is a very observable thing, if you try to run over your pet with you car it will move away because it understands intuitively that it is time to get the fuck out of there. the reason i know you're wrong is that dogs get hit by cars all the time. dogs will even fucking chase cars and try to bite the tires |
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dogs can learn from other dogs. i could tell you a story of a male rescue dog that only began lifting his leg to pee after seeing other male dogs do the same at a park. like: ohhhh, is that how you do this? because dog had not been really socialized with other dogs in a sane way before dogs that interact badly with cars tend to be less likely to produce puppies, and so there is some selective pressure. but, more generally, dogs eventually learn the concept of "big heavy thing that won't stop" from getting hit with a baby stroller or a shopping cart and from that point on they understand to get the fuck out of the way of something that's larger than them and bearing down at a steady clip ...or they get run over and don't make more puppies. but dogs aren't as good as teaching such concepts to their offspring as humans. no significant language to build up an informational legacy over tens of thousands of years so dog is drool |
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i suppose there's also personality. some dogs will bust through anything like the kool aid man and be proud of shit of it. other dogs are downright neurotic; a yellow lab that refuses to step into puddles etc |
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well yes, that they are intuitively representing what comes next does not mean that their subjective intuition is "right". but yes, the limit between intuition and abstraction is as fuzzy as the limit between subject and object |
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do i even need to bring up... operant conditioning? [have you imprinted on goose brand yet?] i remember some online writeup about ~ guy's cat has some life-threatening asthma condition and the phrase i like was "getting a cat to use an inhaler is somewhere between incredible patience and master cat whisperer" and then "eventually the cat understood the inhaler helped and would show up for it without me even doing anything" it's about creating some sort of internal representation of the world and then using that to make decisions to continue your survival, e.g. ~ big heavy machines won't stop and i should get out of the way or it will hurt. i fought this inhaler thing for months but now i'm on board with it. etc |
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i'm an increasing fan of the hidden role epigenetics plays, i should note. like, it's not just the platicity of dog-mammal-brain, or human language, it's that both neuroplasticity and language can influence gene expression. no one knows why something like an SSRI can take weeks to start working as intended... and, oh, yes, it's about which genes are expressed. most modern anti-depressants are effectively manipulating gene expression and that's why it takes a few weeks to do anything. also quite normal to cause normal irreversible changes in neural structure. i think risperdal is a drug to turn men into manboob women. |
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"i remember some online writeup about ~ guy's cat has some life-threatening asthma condition and the phrase i like was "getting a cat to use an inhaler is somewhere between incredible patience and master cat whisperer" and then "eventually the cat understood the inhaler helped and would show up for it without me even doing anything" it's about creating some sort of internal representation of the world and then using that to make decisions to continue your survival, e.g. ~ big heavy machines won't stop and i should get out of the way or it will hurt. i fought this inhaler thing for months but now i'm on board with it. etc" even then the cat does uses the inhalator intuitively, meaning without reflection or further understanding of whats going on other that suffering going away as coming immediately after a certain action. we have and intuition for time and space, meaning we are aware of them even without thinking about them. kant says this is an apriori thing, meaning it is independent from experience. even if that was false and we need experience to mold this intuition in our brains what predates every an all experience is the capacity of the mind to pick up on these things, which its to say almost the same exact thing. |
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along with the assumption that animals have this magic "intuition" is that a creature's genetic code is this fixed-from-birth thing. environmental factors influence which genes actually get expressed. a wild stressed animal grows up different than a pampered pet. so, it's not merely that we've selected canines that cooperate more, it's that, growing up under human influence, they emerge as fundamentally different creatures in terms of active genetic expression. in this sense, genomes are actually a sliding collage that moves to fit the situation; not some universal cookbook covering intuition. which is actually more about the genome sliding around to cover circumstances that go beyond generation to generation, gtfo the way of a car associations |
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epic i think you should look up the technical definition of "intuition" because you're kind of saying that animals don't perceive. |
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(it means immediate cognition without the use of conscious rational processes) |
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There is nothing magical about intuition. If I throw a ball in the air you, the dog and me will know, just by looking at its evolving situation in time and space; where it will land, how high it will bounce, in what direction, etc We dont need to understand it abstractly, we dont need to know why the ball behaves like that (this is complete impossible), we simply know it will. This intuition is modeled by the regularities observed in the world. |
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i like to picture it as a sort of inner blank sheet on which the senses write |
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Indeed, I said earlier that theres nothing magical about it, as we all experience it. But its certainly something beyond understanding how subjectivity does its thing. That there is no difference in principle between the way the mind of an insect and the way the mind of god works is an evoking thought. No subject can have a complete picture of the world or even subjectivity |
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