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 (nobody)...and 371 guests Last 5 registered Oplandisks nothingstar N_loop yipe foxtrotromeo Browse members... |
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I'm personally getting sick of this. I know Osama bin Laden did a horrendous thing to America and the world for that matter, but I don't think Americans should be taking it out on innocent Muslim people. Doesn't their religion condemn violence and murder anyways? Muslims don;t kill people -- Muslim terrorists and fundamentalists kill people. |
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which particular instance are you referring to? |
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"I know Osama bin Laden did a horrendous thing to America" <-- and how do you know this? |
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Proof was presented to the 18 NATO allies, and they accepted it. |
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Why should we believe them exactly? We all know Nation is run by the US |
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i have seen no proof, have you personally seen proof of Osama Bin Laden's involvement? this would be his first actual act of terrorism. |
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Just saying. Not believing. I personally think they're martyring him so they have someone to blame and so America can rest easy at night. But there is some proof that has been presented. So i'm half and half on bin Laden, but I'm not up for totally destroying Afghanistan just to get him. -- oops too late. Sorry, I tend to get vague when posting sometimes. I was referring of course to 9-11. (or so they say) Pah... i was just trying to make conversation. Talk amongst yourselves. Here's a topic -- the legend of Mike Paradinas' ponytail. |
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NATO ^ |
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about the muslim religeon... their religeon actually tells them to kill all non-belivers in the name of allah. back in biblical times, this was to make the muslim empire expand, and to turn the rightous into conquestadors... |
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Yeah, we've only seen clips on the news where we have some newscaster talking over the top of it toughly telling us what he's saying. I'm not going to take that as solid evidence, he could be wishing us merry christmas |
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Is that true?@nanotech In the words of Goerge Carlin -- the second commandment should states (after ditching the other eight) "Thou shalt try REALLY hard not to kill, unless they give me good reason to or unless they pray to a different invisible man than you do." |
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could you scan that bit of the koran for me nano? |
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i've actually been wondering that myself @b3n |
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i depise the news when they present opinion and conjective as iron-clad proof - that's base attempted brainwashing (BAW) at its worst. and then when tony blair MP comes on the telly and goes through his badly-acted facial expressions - makes me wanna puke! we're doomed until the people rise up and say: "I'M MAD AS HELL AND I'M NOT GONNA TAKE IT ANY MORE!" |
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Yo b3n, the koran don't state that - just like the bible says thou shalt not kill which zealot 'christians' have decided doesn't really apply unless they say it does (RE: the death penalty in the USA, which w bush gets a hard-on about -- the POWER!) |
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right on marlowe. |
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Well, duh, no I haven't seen any proof personally. I've made a personal decision just like everyone else who doesn't have the hard facts. |
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you mean you made an opinion and presented it as a fact? |
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Ok, consider the video of Osama that was available to everyone on the internet and boadcasted on tv. Tell me how exactly could the US get away with purposely mistranslating something that was aired worldwide? Don't you think someone fluent in the language would speak up? Have they? In this whole world has anyone came out and said look, I know the translation was a lie? Out of the billions of people, not one? The video did not prove that he was the mastermind, but it did show that was involved. This has nothing to do with my opinion of how the US givernment is handling the situation, I think it's sick, but I just want to know what you think that video tape meant if Osama wasn't involved. |
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Please explain that a little clearer, I don't understand what you mean. |
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But it does, however, bother me quite a bit that we have no idea what the government's proof was before the video tape was discovered. Why can't they disclose even one bit of proof besides the tape? It is quite crooked looking. |
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well keep studying it til you understand it Jupitah, have you considered the possibility that Bin Laden is playing for the world's media - he is a dying, brain-befuddled man - he has already claimed responsibility for bombings before, which were subsequently found to be other organisations |
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Hmmm... that kind of scares me. If that's true then that would make him the perfect target. |
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But I still hold that the idea of a mistranslation is unlikely. |
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for all we know, Osama is in AZ being directed by Spielberg! :D may be highly improbable, but still possible! |
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No, you're going to have to talk down to me, because I don't understand what you're on about. Which opinions have I made that I've presented as fact here in this topic? |
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"their religeon actually tells them to kill all non-belivers in the name of allah" I think you've been misinformed, the Koran states that muslimpeople are allowed to defend themselves in an 'eye for an eye' way. It's not allowed to attack when they are not provoced. And killing civillians is only allowed in very threatening situations. If your theory about the Koran was valid then Muslims and non-muslims couldn't be living together the way they do now. |
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I'm talking about the ambiguity of it all, while he may declare he had a part in it we don't know if he's saying 'down with america, down with america!', you've gotta be more cynical. how the fuck do we know what it says? do you get aljazeera? is this tape on the net? All i'm saying is bin laden sits there for a good while talking and we get told by the media, the most untrustworthy people around, that he's declared war or whatever. |
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exactly, its the same for jews |
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you said "proof was presented" |
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I think that the whole thing could have been done without him. It's not that expensive to hijack a plane... |
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It was at cnn.com for a while, and still might be there. Like I said, if the translation is wrong, why hasn't anyone, not a single person, said anything? If it were mistranslated I think somebody would have correctly translated it and the word would ahve been out days afterword. That is not something that would just slip by. And I don't have to be cynical, I have to be logical and open-minded. I'm just not letting my anger towards the U.S. gov get in the way of reason. Even so, according to what marlowe said, he still might be the wrong guy. |
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not denying he said what the translation said he said - but that ain't proof of his guilt is it? |
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Followup to: jupitah I remember something in the news that there had been a warning by osama prior to 9/11 that the US would experience some kind of terrorist attack...but don't quote me on that. |
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Marlowe, I didn't make an opinion, the leaders of NATO did. Evidence was presented to them, a statement was released from the secretary-general stating "It is clear that all roads lead to al Qaeda and pinpoint Osama bin Laden as having been involved in it." Can you accept that NATO came to this conclusion as a "fact"? Whether the evidence was totally fake or not, they came to this conclusion. I haven't even said whether I believe Bin Laden was involved, but you seem to have jumped to the conclusion that I do. |
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Ok, say you are a muslim and can translate it and see that the tone of bin ladens speach has been made aggressive. You ring up the tv station, what kind of responses do you think you'd get? |
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No, and I'm agreeing with you on that. All I'm saying is that the translation is correct. There was no purposeful mistranslation. |
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And also, where's the evidence that iraq is stockpiling weapons of mass destruction? tony blair recently had to admit that a dossier of evidence against saddam had been scrapped due to lack of anything to put in it! |
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Yo i noticed you changed the word "proof" to "evidence" that time! |
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The interenet. Out of all the individuals that could translate it, one of them would find a way to let us know. Word would spreas, because even it's not true, a conspiracy theory spreads like wildfire. |
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The U.S. gov is not stupid and would not take that obvious of a risk. |
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the western governments are getting high sniffing the petroleum in the Middle East - so arrogant that they think they have automatic rights to it - and send their whores in to claim it - first their armies, then their dummy heads-of-state, then their corporations. |
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Ok, fair enough, that was a dumb mistake on my part. Please substitute "evidence" for "proof" and lets continue the discussion! |
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Xlr, too bad there is not a organized compilation of the facts available. It's sad that the details of such a serious matter are so damn vague. |
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hello! i dont want this to sound like a preaching thing but: i am a muslim. firstly, NOWHERE in ANY islamic literature does it say that muslims are allowed to kill anyone. In fact, the Prophet in Islam himself married a Christian woman, islam teaches full respect for any other beliefs. Secondly, about the misinterpretation of bin ladens vids: you say that someone somewhere would have objected if the thing had been translated wrongly, well let me tell you right now no-one in the middle-east believes Osama did it! Fact. I personally think he probably did, he seems like a bit of a fuck up, and EVERY religion has its fuckups. ANd again every religion has people who just want to live peacefully and get on with life. and i also think America had it coming to them, if not by osama's crew then someone elses. Their foreign policy has been called "the biggest atrocity since WW2" by their own government ministers. The American gov continually fucks poorer countries up the arse, and the poorer countries cannot fight back. |
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Everybody is talkin about going to war and bombing Bin Laden. Even "Dr. Dre" is talkin about bombin Bin Laden and all this other bullshit. Everybody is wearin red white and blue and I think that's the wrong thing to do. I don't think going out and bombing those countries is gonna bring justice in our community. I think our position has to be one of Anti war and I say that only because their is a war that has been going on in our community and the only way we gonna resolve it is if the people get power. So once we get power then we don't have to live under this war that has been happening. I'm ready for the war to stop too, but under my terms and I wanna be free. I'm prepared to choose sides right now and take the right position....ARE U READY? |
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no problemo :) |
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I find the lack of scepticism about the OBL video disturbing, hasn't anyone heard of people called actors? He's not the only bearded guy you know..... |
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"The U.S. gov is not stupid" erm, yeah.. |
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i used to have an Iranian boss who had a wonky eye just like bin laden's! |
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