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 (nobody)...and 179 guests Last 5 registered Oplandisks nothingstar N_loop yipe foxtrotromeo Browse members... |
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Yep |
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here my loved Moto Guzzi Nevada 750 |
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and another one |
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I have one of these: |
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I am saving up for one of these: |
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I intend to also start saving for one of these in the new year (Suzuki TL1000s & Spondon frame kit). I intend to make it into a naked gloss black cafe racer, clip ons, sporty riding position, weight shaved off everywhere. Utterly impractical, but a superb weekend toy at speeds that don't mean a stretch in the cells. The goldwing will be in blue and will probably take longer to save for than the basic TL (spondon frame will come later). |
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Nice, I've never ridden a transverse-V engined bike, what's it like? |
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not mine, but same model |
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I like the insane american-only Z1 with a V-8 truck's turbo bolted onto it. My favourite classic Kwak are the H2s. I saw a beautifully cafe-racer'd and updated one whilst I was over near you. The idea of a 750cc two stroke just strikes me as mental, particularly when it's not very refined and is basically just 3 250cc single cylinders bolted together. Coupled with shoddy suspension even by the day's standards=accident waiting to happen. :D |
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the sound of engine is great... it's music for the ears :-) zen and art of motorcycle maintenance wrotes on his pages: "harley davisdon engine sounds like heavy metal... while moto guzzi sounds like a nice melody" for more info about this book: |
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I know of no way to show indignation by text only, but I will say bah. |
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To whom and about what? |
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Funny you should mention Pirsig. I actually finished reading his second book (Lila: An Enquiry into Morals) this morning. Quite different to the first one, but still very interesting. Yes, you cannot beat the sound of a V-twin to my ears (however it's mounted in the frame). Running one with a straight through exhaust sounds utterly incredible, it's up there with a jet engine in terms of a distinct sound. :) |
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All you motorcycle people with your unnecessary pollution machines. |
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What, as opposed to you bone-idle Norwegian students, who can afford to stay in university indefinately, without coming out with crippling debts at the end, solely because your government pays for it all, which they fund by selling their oil reserves. I'm so sorry that some of us have to work to have funded your nice little existance all those years in university. I'm also incredibly sorry that to do my job, I have to have a car or bike and that it simply cannot be done by public transport, or by people local to the clients. I'm also sorry that I'd earn about 2/3rds of what I do if I had to take a more local job and that I'd subsequently pay a great deal less tax. I'm even more sorry that I don't feel a smidgeon of guilt about any of this and, I hate to admit, I actually derive some pleasure from my (comparatively very environmentally, moreso than most buses and trains) form of transport. As opposed to it being a soulless, kid-killing box that I sit in and crawl along at 2mph in, spewing out exhaust fumes as I sit in traffic and consider driving the thing into the oncoming lane to end it all. |
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I was kind of hoping you would be able to stick to the point at hand, but I will grant you the point that "our" oil drilling is bad (We're the third largest exporter of oil in the world. It sucks!), and I'm opposed to it, and I have been for quite some time. If I ruled the world, I would stop that nonsense right away. Your bike isn't more environmentally sound than a bus or train! Where did you get that idea? Your bike carries ONE person (or two at most) while a bus can carry.. I don't know.. 50-60 people? I never counted, but, per person, a bus pollutes way less than a bike or car, but even a car is better than a bike (if used properly and not for short single-person trips to the store), though only marginally. Arguing that pleasure makes right.. well, you can see where that leads. The best alternative, though, and I shouldn't have to point it out, is a bike. A normal human-powered bike. And yes: It is possible to do quite a few of the things people don't think they can do with a bike. I'd say as long as the trip doesn't take more than 1,5-2 hours by bike, there's no point in using a car. ..and where did you get the idea that we don't end up with huge loans? |
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yeah, norway is all oil - dont know what denmark is tho, we get paid to go to school aswell - we don't really have any oil. |
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You're probably right, DM, but riding my motorcycle to work is more efficient than driving my car. But the fact of the matter is, while I suppose Icould, I am simply not going to ride a bicycle to and from work, as I live on the side of a mountain, and the 10 or 15 miles between my home and office aren't flat by any means either. That coupled with the fact that there is no mass transit system of any kind here makes personal transportation almost a necessity. And during the work week it is almost always just me in the car. ...but, besides all of that, i just think riding my motorcycle is fun. |
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I don't know too much about Denmark's economy either.. could it be you're all living off the money from Lego? You have a great deal of windmills, though, which is good. We have the hydroelectric power. |
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How is it more effective? And since you say the way isn't flat, I'm guessing it's a bit up and a bit down. How long would you think it would take you to ride a bike to it (imagine yourself already having done so for about two-three months, so you're more physically fit and adjusted to it than you are now when answering)? Does your wife have her own car? |
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it's not more effective, but it is more efficient. car: 27 miles per gallon bike: 50 ..no wife |
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"I will grant you the point that "our" oil drilling is bad (We're the third largest exporter of oil in the world. It sucks!), and I'm opposed to it, and I have been for quite some time. If I ruled the world, I would stop that nonsense right away." But presumably the issue doesn't rile you so much that you want the government to charge you directly for the portion of your education that is funded by the oil-sales? Similarly, I expect you specially request that you go into a higher tax bracket to offset this when it comes to funding public services in your country? |
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"I never counted, but, per person, a bus pollutes way less than a bike or car" This is a nice idea in theory, but in reality it's not always true apart from in medium to large cities and even then the gulf between the two is nowhere near as wide as you'd imagine. Both buses and railways (especially the latter) have far bigger costs to the environment than the MPG per passenger. Unlike my bike, which lives in my garage, before the bus or train can start its meaningful journey, all the staff associated with running it, from the drivers, to the cleaners, fitters, mechanics, ticket booth staff, etc. all have to get to work. How many of them do you think walk or cycle (or, bearing in mind they are going in before the buses are running, use public transport)? A great many of them drive to work. That "environmental cost" should be considered to be one associated with trains/buses, not the cars/bikes they use to get to work. Then there's the fact that (again new buses/trains in big cities excepted) they by and large tend to be very big, very old, very polluting diesel engines. Then there's the issue of occupancy. You cite buses with 50-60 people on them. Yes in crowded cities. No in rural areas. The great problem with public transport is that if you live somewhere even slightly sparsely populated (nevermind somewhere truly remote) it doesn't make sense, economically or environmentally. Where I used to live in the country, the bus (a great big filthy old thing that used to constantly spew smoke out the back) regularly had 5 or 6 people on it, for significant portions of its journey. Its meandering path through every two-bit village on the way (irrespective of whether people wanted to get on or off at those villages, which was often not the case) meant that the total miles covered were about 3.5 times as many as my direct route to the destination. There is absolutely no way that it is better for the environment for that bus to do its route than it was for the 6 people on it to go seperately by mid-size |
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by mid-sized cars. The government (consequently the taxpayer) heavily subsidises these money-haemoraging services as it's not very PC to say "you're right, in sparsely populated areas, you need a car." and of course, it'd lead to demands for VAT to be removed from fuel, etc. Trains have the added overhead of the tracks. This seems silly, almost negligible, but I read a v. interesting report on the environmental impact of them (not sponsored by car manufacturers, it actually suggested people go by bus) and it suggested that most double occupant cars were better than a half-full train when we factor in the cost of the wood for the sleepers, the energy and fuel used to fit and maintain them, to form the railway tracks themselves, move the gravel that is used under the sleeper and all the energy expended in the construction of them. |
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"but even a car is better than a bike (if used properly and not for short single-person trips to the store), though only marginally." Are you off your box? How does a car weighing the best part of a tonne that is lucky to manage 30mpg when travelling on our crowded roads at peak times compared favourably to a 165Kg motorcycle that manages 45mpg when you're thrashing the living daylights out of it and almost 70mpg when you are pootling (with 55mpg being a more realistic commuting-speed figure). Then factor in the much more environmentally damaging production and delivery costs of a medium sized car, compared to a medium sized bike. How is a car better than a motorbike? Perhaps you're refering to the (out of date) information that bikes are bigger polluters on cars that was dreamt up in the late 90s? Aside from it factoring in such idiotic things as the fact that a car can carry four other people (irrespective of the fact that I'd still be making the same journey on my own and these hypothetical 4 people doesn't reduce the amount of fuel used in any way), it was based on things prevalent in motorbikes at the time such as them having carbs and not having catalytic convertors. One wild claim was that a motorbike was 16 times more polluting than a car. They based it on a very large capacity (>1000cc) early eighties bike, which even by its day's standards were bad, versus a very small modern car. In reality, modern bikes tend to have fuel injection rather than carbs, catalytic convertors in the exhausts and are required to meet the Euro III emissions regs, all of which my bike does. On top of that there are all sorts of fringe and hard to quantify benefits, such as it not being stuck in traffic with the engine idling (which is the most pollutant per mile), nor do you need to rag the tits of it (again a big burner of fuel) to get from A to B when commuting. |
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hahaha, copy'n'paste ! yay ! |
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"Arguing that pleasure makes right.. well, you can see where that leads." Erm, no. My point was that I refuse to feel guilty about deriving pleasure from something which is arguably "bad for the environment", considering I need one anyway and would use it even if I didn't derive pleasure from it. It was a comment criticising the way environmentalists (regardless of the fact they may often have something of value to say) often come across as modern day puritans, more annoyed by the pleasure of the thing than the environmental cost of it. And the way they sometimes seem more concerned with "going through the motions" of saving the planet than the actual net result of their actions (for example, recycling certain plastics which simply are not worth recycling, in environmental terms). "..and where did you get the idea that we don't end up with huge loans?" Girlfriend studied in Norway for 6 months, has a lot of Norwegian friends and still goes over there at least once a year. According to her they, on average, pay considerably less in tuition fees and accrue considerably less debt than, say, a UK student. I asked how this was possible (this conversation was nothing to do with green issues) and how come so many of them could afford to study for longer (on average). She explained that their university education was heavily subsidised by the government. I asked how they could afford to, she explained that they generate a significant proportion of state money (not unlike the way the Saudi's can afford 0% income tax) by exporting their oil. |
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I don't want to die. I just want to ride my motor sye.. ..cle. |
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Yeah, write the post in notepad then ctrl-v away. No way that bad boy was fitting in one post alone. |
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i havent read this thread cos i might only have 40 years to live.. but,i have 2 cars and will end up with a motorbike. i quite enjoy fucking up the o zone.fuck the o zone. |
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I would rather just have them stop drilling immediately, but I wouldn't mind paying more tax because what I've been doing up until now has been funded by the oil if the money went to something useful like research on environmentally friendly technology or whatever. |
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nice avatar by golly |
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Right on baby. During the hour's gap between 2 of the posts in this thread, I went for a ride on my bike. Unlike 95%+ of my journeys it wasn't strictly necessary to go by bike, hell, I could have even of gone by push bike, if I'd had half an hour's more warning. Still, I thought sod it, I fancied a ride. I left it to warm up (idling) for an extra 20 seconds than longer on the return trip and thought of DM. FOR EVERY CAR YOU DON'T DRIVE, I'LL BUY ANOTHER MOTORBIKE AND I DON'T PAY FOR MY FUEL ANYWAY, SO I'LL JUST REDLINE IT WHEN I'M AT THE LIGHTS AND DRIVE IN 2 GEARS LOWER THAN I NEED TO THE REST OF THE TIME! MWAHAHAHAHA! |
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You're stuck in how it is now. Now isn't set in stone, and now should be changed. As soon as possible. Buses being old has already been addressed: More tax/spend more money on getting environmentally friendly stuff. Hydrogen buses, for instance. People getting to and from is no problem with buses: The drivers drive the routes that go by their house, so when one signs off in the middle of the day, the next one just waits at the stop near his house to get on, and he takes over. Train drivers can take the bus, as there's no train station where the bus doesn't stop as well. A non-polluting bus would make that last bit a problem (the technology? More tax). |
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Thanks, it's a sort of "mash up" of 2 popular avatars. I just realised a lot of my post was potentially undermined by my earlier revealing that: a) I am saving up for a Goldwing which is a straight-6 1.8 litre engine and weighs about 300kg. b) I don't need that and will only be using it for touring and recreation (although in my defence, 90% of the time, it will be two up and I'll use my smaller bike the rest of the time). c) That I will be buying a TL spondon, which aside from the huge cost of a one-off special, will be a litre twin running carbs, with a borderline-illegal exhaust (most definately with no power-sapping catalytic convertor) and I'll rag the thing silly and polish off a rear tyre in 3000 miles, as well as using the thing for solely single-rider recreational motoring. Still, I suppose that doesn't detract from the arguments that my SV isn't so bad, even if I do wheelie it through disabled bays. :D |
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im sorry but, you know, posting so seriously on xlt brings smile on my face.that fits exactly somewhere between tridentism and, humpf, wickid hanalwall threads. |
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"(the technology? More tax)." That sounds a bit like zealotry- we'll fund this hypothetical environmentally sound bus by taxing the polluters more and more heavily. Hell, even if it doesn't result in an environmentally sound bus, at least the polluters will have been punished and we can tax them more to fund the research! In all seriousness though, do you not concede that for a significant number of people (if not all) a car is a necessity and not just an anti-social luxury? I mean, in my job, there are about 60-100 people in the country who do this job (for the various companies) all of them are scattered around the country (with slightly higher number in exeter and london). The clients are all over the country. How, other than driving (or as some of us do, riding) are we supposed to get to work? Yes, we could go by train (and then taxi at either end), but that would still have a not insignificant environmental impact and we could basically only work 3 days a week due to the increase in travelling times (monday and friday would be spent getting to and from the actual job). Aside from the impact on the client of suddenly not being able to do 5 day jobs (and instead splitting the work over 2 weeks), do you think they (state-funded institutions) would be prepared to have our day rates go up by 40% (or to be charged for the travelling time, which would amount to the same thing)? As I've said, the clients are all over the country, so "move nearer to work" isn't the answer either. I see the point of buses and trains in population centres, I really do, but in smaller towns and villages, I'm afraid it just doesn't work. Short of making everyone live in London (no offense, but I'd top myself), what's the solution? |
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Anyone else notice that this thread (not the rest of the board) seems really slow to load? It's not being powered by inconsistant green energy to offset its carbon footprint or anything like that, is it? |
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Proper use of a car means no single-person rides. Car-pools are public transportation-ish. Are they developing hydrogen bikes? I'm sorry that took so long.. I hit some weird windows xp hot key that changed the input keyboard language in firefox (and firefox only) to english, and I couldn't find the < and > keys for the links... |
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solution- |
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I'm not annoyed by the pleasure, I'm just saying that if pleasure is harmful to other people (like smoking), it's not a worthy pleasure; one's right to autonomy does not override other people's right to not having avoidable harm caused them. We get loans from a governmental institution called "Lånekassen." At first, it's a regular loan of around 80000 nok (£7 406,72) per year. Then, if you pass your exams, a part of it (I don't remember how much, and the log on page where I can check it is out of service at the moment for some reason), is made into scholarship, so you don't have to pay it back. It's a sort of "incentive" thing for people to finish their education, I think.. and you don't get it indefinitely: After a set amount of years (I don't know how much because I'm right on track, and I will finish my master's in time), they cut it. |
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a kindof funny picture from a motorcycle riding brochure i picked up |
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Ah, so that'd mainly be yank bikes, hugely oversized, inefficient weekened playthings, nothing to do with serious transport and sold predominantly in Amercia (where we know how they all care deeply about the environment), as opposed to Japanese or European bikes that comply with Euro III? Again, comparing a bike to a toyota prius hybrid FFS. That's hardly fair. Lets compare a diesel bus to a solar powered bike. Why not be a bit more realistic. Compare a 500cc commuter bike, with an equally average 1.6 litre saloon car. With regard to green bikes. Yes, there are great developments in this area (arguably they'll be much better than green cars once complete, predominantly because of their much lesser weight). There is already an offroad diesel bike on the market that damages footpaths less than a hiker's boot and which can do close to 90mpg. They are developing a clean diesel sportsbike that make power equivalent to current litre bikes but 70mpg at full chat. We have already got electric bikes that are really useable (and they have a potential for greater range than small electric cars). They are even more appealing than petrol engined ones because the way electrical motors work means better acceleration. There was one electric drag bike (before the chap who made it killed himself on it) that had the fastest 0-60mph time of any wheeled vehicle, ever: 0.9 seconds. With that sort of appeal, people are clamouring for electric bikes, on the proviso that they are allowed to make artifical engine noise (currently the enviros are complaining about this!) because early tests in urban areas show drivers pull out on them (moreso than usual) because they don't hear them coming. I think the future response to peak oil will be electric vehicles powered by nuclear power stations, personally. I'm not saying I think that's a good idea, but I think it's what'll happen. |
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You break, you pay. Simple as that. A car may be necessary for some people at the moment, yes, but that doesn't change the fact that something needs to be done, nor does it settle anything or say anything about my stance on the issue, as it would appear to do if this was a TV-debate between politicians. Also, when 30% of car rides in Norway are < 3 km (I have little doubt you'd find similar patterns elsewhere) and you see lots of cars going by with one person, one person, one person, one person, one person, one person, one person, two persons, one person, one person, etc, you can't help but wonder why the fuck neighbours who are both going into town or people who work at the same place can't at least car-pool?! Your job seems like it needs restructuring. What do you do? |
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So, lets compare that to my first degree and my masters, which combined cost me (in tuition fees alone) £15,000. Despite having had a good job for close to 5 years, I'm still paying off a remaining debt on living costs (student loan, all of which I have to pay back) incurred when at university (and no, I wasn't on the sauce every night, I lived frugally). I also got not a single penny of my masters paid for by the state and wasn't eligible for any scholarships in spite of being in the top 5% of students. Every last £ was paid for by me. Tell me you don't have it easier! :) Epohs: Perhaps the cagers might notice me more (and I might see them even sooner) if I was a seven-eyed freak like that in the picture? |
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"Again, comparing a bike to a toyota prius hybrid FFS. That's hardly fair." Transport = Transport. Sounds fair to me. If there was a bike or car or bus or whatever that didn't pollute at all, that would be preferable to all other types of polluting transportation. Why haven't you got an electric bike if there are ones on the market? |
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Great maker, how do you guys handle the thoughestfullness? |
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Whoah! However, that Britain doesn't have a proper education funding programme doesn't change anything. We still need to cut our emissions, and I'm doing what I can, primarily by voting for parties that will try to make things better, but also by always turning off electrical appliances I don't use, etc, plus I don't own a car (though I do have a license for some reason). I will now retire from this screen, as I have a headache, possible due to prolonged exposure to the UK IP Commission Report. |
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I try to divert some of it onto other people. |
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