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No-one is talking about ten years, and that'll be the end of it. It is 50 year and 100 year prognoses, and no-one knows exactly what the consequences will be, but it's a good (and educated) guess that they will not be pleasant. Also, when it comes to the time-frame, things are indeed a bit unpredictable, as there could quite possibly be unforeseen factors (like the sudden release of the tundric gas reserves due to a warmer climate) or volcanos erupting or whatever. Ok, maybe today, some are trying to make a living from this, but the original observations were made in research into other things, researchers see trends that the temperature is increasing, and then they go through possible explanations for this. When it isn't possible that the entire effect is "natural," other explanations were tested, and pollution seemed to fit the data; growth in pollution equals higher global average temperatures. And who the fuck cares about burning up all the fossil fuels in any other way than that leading to more pollution? Maybe if we lost all our fossil fuels, people would have to look into alternative fuel sources. Also, I'll bet you could scrounge up 17000 scientists who believe in creationism, and you could also probably scrounge up more people than that with various relevant degrees that believe war was necessary, etc. Also, we are different from other animals. Do you see other animals constructing what we construct? Do you see crabs doing second-degree equations? Is it even reasonable to think that all animals are self-conscious? And why shouldn't our actions affect the planet? We cover almost all of it, we've burned down lots of it, we've covered it with concrete. I'll leave it up to you to prove that we don't affect the planet, because even the most intuitively given evidence should indicate to any moron that do. |
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*that we do. |
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You should try moving to the Maldives. Maybe you need to feel the effects. Oh well, I guess this once more proves that science requires as large a leap of faith as religion does. |
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"I'll leave it up to you to prove that we don't affect the planet, because even the most intuitively given evidence should indicate to any moron that do." I (and indeed none of the people who don't buy into the notion that global warming is predominantly a human factor) do not claim we make no impact on the earth. Our claim is that the difference we make is very slight. You said yourself earlier that regardless of the difference we made, we should still aim to curb it. I'd disagree. How much of the problem is us? What if it's 0.1%? Won't this great cataclysm happen anyway? Would we be making huge sacrifices to merely delay it by a matter of days or weeks? Alright. 250,000 years from now, humans as we know them will no longer exist on earth. The earth will still be there, carrying on pretty much as it ever did before we were around. Going into and out of ice ages, tectonic plates moving about, volcanoes still erupting. At that stage, the temperature will be negligibly different to how it would have been had we never of existed. The earth will still have millions of years left before it is engulfed by the sun and it will probably still be capable of supporting life (and if it's not, it won't, by then, be anything to do with mankind) and, if it is, there will almost certainly be some sort of life on it. I'd like to sum up, that if you truly believe this great disaster is inevitable, what are you doing wasting your time on a messageboard typing about it? Why aren't you off in your remote bunker hoarding stores and supplies for you and your children to prolong (and improve the quality of) your and your children's existence? Oh well, I guess this once more proves that science requires as large a leap of faith as religion does. Indeed. I've always said that the notion that science is some all encompassing "church" of thought that has none of the failings that religions do and that it never contradicts itself, is a bizzare and illogical one. |
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The problem with these studies is that of bias. How many people are studying global warming to verify whether it is human made or not? Most people are conducting studies SEEKING a certain correlation (positive negative) in order to effect human policy in a specific way. |
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I'll note that good research is being made but wankers go and take things out of context. Climate modeling is extremely complicated and will be extremely approximate for many years to come. As such, one should leave scientists to interpreting results. |
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True, I can't really think how you would go about actually selecting a team with the suitable skills who didn't have some sort of vested interest. Even if the individual is truly impartial (which is unlikely), whether that impartiality could remain (for the majority of the members of the team) in the face of all the pressure from whoever is funding it. In fact, I can't think of an organisation to fund this research that wouldn't have some sort of vested interest. It's not like discovering electricty or the combustion engine, is it? This is true in all fields of science of course. Some, hoever are slightly more "proveable" in mathematic terms, or near irrefutable studies and hence there's less grounds for disagreement on facts. Others are less prone to have cause for outside factors to interfere. It's such an emotive issue that it's particularly susceptible to this sort of influence. Childish taunt: If you're so worried about global warming and think we are responsible for it, do the decent thing. Turn off your computer and stop posting about it on messageboards. You'll conserve electricity and I'm sure it'll make all the difference in preventing a cataclysm. :P |
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Are we talking protect the planet all of a sudden? We're trying to protect our children, all the animals, etc, all those that don't get to choose how to live their lives. And who said I believe it is inevitable?! You seem to believe so, you seem to not be able to handle the responsibility for this. We can prevent it by acting. I'm typing here to try and convince people like you to act. And I do what little I know how to, I turn off lights, I don't own a car, the apartment is one of several rooms in an office building (offices all around, only top floor is for living) and heating is provided by radiators, circulating hot water from one source throughout the entire building (granted, that isn't my doing, but I wouldn't feel as good heating my room up if I had to use more inefficient means of heating (for smaller buildings it's probably more efficient with other more conventional ways of heating, btw)). Also, do you even know what 0,1% is on a global scale? That's a hell of a lot, that's what! And with how things like these go, those 0,1% could escalate; If all the downfall in an area is rain instead of snow in a period where it should snow, that increases the relative heat. Also, it isn't just a matter of global warming. Global warming is the overall measurable effect, but that doesn't mean that it is the only effect, and in no way is increased temperatures the only problem: A city, for instance, generates a lot of heat. If this heat is retained by gases in the atmosphere, that will create a local irregularity that interferes with a system farther away, . You won't necessarily need a global increase in temperatures to get catastrophic results. |
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wrt global warming, the current uproar and bias will cause a reaction among people who are secondarily interested in the issue but primarily dedicated to scientific honesty, and I predict a good bit of excellent research will begin to appear. It's true that science has all sorts of crap like this, especially since funding issues can snare people by the balls. Luckily with 6 billion people on the planet, you can get followings on so many sides of any big issue. A huge barrier of course is the money involved in simply collecting and processing the data, oh well, let alone paying people to do stuff. ah well. |
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So what in the world does the Norwegian government gain from funding research on global warming? Our biggest export is fossil fuels. |
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yes but that'd be bad science, so it's up to you who to believe |
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I can't help but notice you've completely ignored manicminer's posts and material proved therein. |
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Thanks for bringing some sense into this thread. *Note to self: print out the above 2 posts and spam CeriJC and chambre noire to death with them* |
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If the great global warming swindle is anything like loose change I would not want to watch it. Even if there are some valid points in it they deliberately swamped it with weak and biased opinion and terribly inaccurate data, just making me more confused as I was watching it. If they did have a valid point or 2 in loose change then they should have stuck to those and not gone of nitpicking at the situation for tiny things to use to "strengthen" their case. |
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well i think the channel 4 board are just the same gullible dumb as the many others who believe global warming isn't true (not xlt people) who will be persueded by false evidence because they don't know it's false. and the only jerk in this is the guy who made this documentary |
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why "not xlt people"? what makes them excluded from that category? |
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because they thought about this a bit. you can't be called stupid for your (stupid) opinion the thing is this is not a political or philosophical debate. im fighting for science here |
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it's a very political debate as well. you can't deny that. fair enough, you want to fight for science, go for it. but politics are involved intrinsically so they really can't be ignored in this debate. |
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I'll probably be dead before I could actually feel the climate changing. |
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well politicians aren't denying global warming, even bush thinks we should drive less. the discussion is really in the sphere of pseudo-science and the internet |
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shht, he still believes his grandma emigrated to florida |
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I like James Lovelock's Gaia theory; the earth is an elaborate system of all of it's parts in some kind of equilibium. We may change this equilibrium and many of earth's creatures may die in the process but the planet will persist. If we want to survive as a species, we owe it to ourselves to change our behavior and help the earth maintain an equilibration that promotes our own existence. |
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fuck Al Gore, fuck his twat wife, and fuck this movie. well i shouldn't say that, he DID invent the internet, or so he said |
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very clever post |
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manbearpig |
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you're blowing the charts up!!! Keep up the good work |
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honestly, all this talk about global warming, or cooling depending on which half witted intellectuals you speak to is all nonsense and just points out mans flaw of thinking the entire universe and world revolve around him. We are just a tiny little blip in the history of earth. this place will be here long after we're gone. unless we blow it up to teach it a lesson. Excelsior!! |
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this is true. but the point is, if we want our blip to last for longer than a few thousand years, we need to take an active role in preserving a healthy environment. |
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if everbody feels that one's "just a powerless little grain of sand on a beach"... Then the human race is already doomed mate! Our actions do have consequences! and everybody have their bit to play in the massive long term outcome. There seems to be no certainty as to what extent this alarming chain of events will spread, and if we're the cause of it. But it seems to be pretty obvious to me that our pollution is deeply affecting the eco-system. Better be safe than sorry, and just be carefuL. now about this documentary, well... i personally don't give a flying fuck who made it... i just think it's a good bell to ring, even if half of the data is correct! It is still good to shake people up, and start respecting nature. I reckon the message is a positive one. |
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sounds like you need to address the issues of over-population, a need for a cleaner alternative energy as the oil is just slowly draining away, and be able to change big business overnight. good luck with that. |
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are you implying that the problem is to big to solve and thus isn't worth the time or effort to solve? how constructive. |
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is there something inthere that isn't common knowledge yet? |
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i just was reading the other day about how half of the worlds living creatures are expected to die out this century. lets just sit back, do nothing, and see if thats true. |
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it regretfully isnt to a lot of people |
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you'll feeL well sorry in the aftermath if it turns out to be true |
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and somehow its harmful to try to be cleaner? thats retarded. |
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i'll just blame the (enter opposing political party) like these fucks do. |
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rad smiles |
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sorry |
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don't be :) |
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in my ignorant stupid american mindset, i thought people who thought global warming was a sham were americans only. now im even more depressed about it. |
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ahhh... no use being depressed about it mate! there's only so much one can do, the rest is up to time & the amount of global effort that's put into it !!! keep them rad smiles going! :) |
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search 'global dimming' in google video. |
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i actually agree with the comments on there...... B-O-R-I-N-G!!! |
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again... B-O-R-I-N-G... |
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Total crap man!!! come up with something more substantial next time :) |
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do you actually watch that crap? they say virtually nothing in 8 minutes. unbelieveable. saying so much and yet so little. |
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Ok, for all those who doubt What exactly is it you're doubting? Are you doubting that greenhouse gases work the way they supposedly do (retaining heat)? Are you doubting how large our emissions are? What are you doubting? Just the entire theory, as a whole, but not its parts? Also, for manicminer: You can't be too sure that you aren't actually eating food that's been flown in from everywhere else... sadly, it seems processing the raw materials in other countries may sometimes be more economically sound for the industry, meaning that, for instance, some of the fish you get in the stores here in norway, while having been caught in norway, has been flown to china (!), processed and flown back because that cost less money than processing it right here. It's also quite hard finding out exactly which fish has been through this and which hasn't, so a protest by not buying it is equally hard. |
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and thecrimsonguard: The use of the words "half witted" just shows exactly which scientists you've been talking to. Try finding some decent ones. |
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