 |
|
You are not logged in! F.A.Q Log in Register |
 |
|
 |
 Now online (2)belb recycle ...and 407 guests Last 5 registered Oplandisks nothingstar N_loop yipe foxtrotromeo Browse members... |
 |
Members 8025Messages 2614103 Today 16 Topics 127542 |
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
The only thing in jeopardy here, I think, is the time you'll be out of school. You seem to have some talent that has the possibility of growing further with more schooling. This time away from school may make you complacent with its absence. And the description you give about your soon to be peers may not help the matter any. Don't get mixed in with the wrong crowd, find people like youself and try not to get mugged. And see about taking some classes out there. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
I always thought those "family issues" on seventh heaven were made up but.. you're seriously getting in trouble for not telling your parents when you go outside after the age of 12? |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
i see. i guess i just assumed you don't give a damn like most people in this world, but if that's not the case, i apologize. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
you should most likely read that jung book yourself too |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
Oh, and how about leaving us with an acoustic going away song or something? Happy Trails? |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
Maybe I will. Something gay and bullshit just to take the piss away. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
I agree here too. Being polite costs nothing. Perhaps while you're with your "bum Uncle" you'll get some manners and respect. That would be a life changing experience. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
being polite for the sake of being polite is bullshit for weak people |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
That seems to be utter crap -- please expound so we can better assess what you mean exactly by "for the sake of being polite". |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
Telling someone where you're going out instead of just walking out of the house is good manners, especially when you are living with your parents. I can't think of any reason for not doing this. Unless I was going out to toot on some rock and bang a few hookers, I would always say where I was going. Being polite for the sake of it is bullshit, I agree. I don't see the sense in that. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
finding a cute girl and getting laid = great idea good luck !! |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
Don't get me wrong - I always remember my P's and Q's when they should be used, e.g. if someone holds a door open for me; but if I was to get bad service at a restaurant, I'd tell them. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
I don't understand. if you're 18, why can't you get a stupid job (for now) and find a place to rent or something? |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
A person can complain about something and be polite and well-mannered about it. People with no manners who complain who are the complete turds. And if you complain about something and someone is rude or ill-mannered toward you, it's unpleasant yes? |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
if you're being polite just to be polite, you're basically stupid. You'll be polite to people who don't deserve it, you'll be polite to people who do deserve more (like being told the truth), you'll pretend you have respect for someone you don't have respect for.. all "just to be polite." Politeness for politeness is a (bad) way of relieving yourself of the responsibility for your opinions. You can, of course, do things that are seen as being polite, but that are rather displays of other things. Like if you love someone and you know they're having a hard time, you may choose not to tell them about something that'd just add to their stress at that moment (you'd rather tell them later). It will come out looking like being polite, but it is a completely different thing all together. There are many similar cases. Also, I hear that argument "being polite costs nothing" and similar ones all the time.. so just because it doesn't cost anything I should do it? Should I do anything I can just because I can if it doesn't cost anything? I should also point out that if you're being polite just to be polite, you'll sometimes end up with someone "paying for it." Like if someone bought some really really weird clothes and you, just to be polite, tells them it's great, and they go around and people laugh at them.. is that "nothing?" If you're being polite for the sake of being polite, you pretend that some set of rules of politeness somehow magically determines your actions. "Oh, I just couldn't tell her, that'd be rude!" That being said, this is not to glorify being rude either; if you don't like something just say that. Don't say "ah, fuck, I hate this it is crap and you are a gay with a cock up your ass!" or something like that. Have some degree of moderation. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
Of course. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
to sum that up I guess you could call politeness fake. It's faking the actions you'd get from other, better, reasons, like concern, love or respect or something like that. I'm never polite, and people know that. So they know that if I say I like what they're wearing, I actually like it. They know if I'm criticising them it's because I respect them (if I didn't respect them I wouldn't bother). |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
Fake Politeness is fake. I thought you were interested in Kung Fu and the Eastern stuff. Being polite and well-mannered to some ignorant, uncouth, rude person is not BS. Teach by example, they say. I've found (as have many others) that if you're consistently polite and well-mannered to someone who isn't, they will soon become more polite and well-mannered themselves. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
There is no such thing as fake politeness, as politeness itself is fake. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
Maybe if you're a fake person, yes. If you're a genuine person, then politeness won't be fake. You're confusing Politeness with Sophistry, it seems. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
no I originally had to specify politeness for the sake of politeness because people usually seem to think they aren't being polite for the sake of politeness until you point it out to them. However, in many cases when people are being polite they're being polite for the sake of politeness, which is fake. I therefore refuse to call what you get when you're performing the same actions, but for other reasons than politeness for being polite. It is then something you apply differently to each situation; you act differently towards different people. If you're being polite, you're acting the same way towards different people and you believe yourself to be a polite person. Well, you aren't. There's nothing about you that is polite. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
there is a "don't" missing up there on the second line. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
no, wait it's right the way it is. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
I think what DM is meaning to say is that etiquette and politeness are social agreements, created to avoid embarrassment - you have to learn what is polite and what not, it doesn't come naturally to most people. I wouldn't say that makes it "fake", though. one thing people tend to forgot is that politeness in its most basic form is meant to save other people from feeling 'out of place' or unwelcome. so if someone is being rude it would be best not to point this out, but to adjust your behaviour to theirs so as not to embarrass them. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
no, that isn't what I'm saying I'm saying that when one is being polite because that is "what one does," that's fake and that when I say polite I mean that exclusively because other instances of what you could call polite isn't being polite, it is respecting, loving, caring or any other form of attitude towards someone. What you're talking about in the last paragraph, I'd call being kind, not polite. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
good luck in the mud state |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
yes, good luck and all |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
Etiquette, maybe: I wouldn't put politeness into the same category. Politeness is Universal, etiquette is localised. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
When I'm polite to a person, I'm usually not thinking about it, it just occurs naturally to me. Maybe you're not naturally polite person, and think that everyone else is just like you |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
Are you polite to everyone? |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
How? Different things are polite in different places. It is polite to perform certain acts in some places and the very same act can be very offensive in other places. Surely etiquette and politeness overlap? |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
etiquette is rules of conduct in certain situations. politeness is a fake display of attitude towards other people in general. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
haha, you always seem to make your own definitions up! Since when has it been publically agreed that politeness is "the fake display of attitude towards other people"? I've said this to you before, you can't just make up your own definitions of words! If everyone did that no one would be able to communicate. You, of all people should agree with that, being a fan of Wittgenstein and all! |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
i liked your posts good luck |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
I'm not making up definitions I'm specifying and distinguishing. Also, I wouldn't say I find in Wittgenstein that you shouldn't ever make up definitions; in fact, if you are able to clearly state what it is you mean by a word so that other people are able to perceive this meaning when you use the word, that won't be a bad thing. Language is used in lots of different ways depending on the situation, and in some situations you have to specify, in others you have to define or redefine, and it is the situation that governs what a word means; a word has no universal meaning. Politeness does indeed mean what I say it means, I'm just making it a bit clearer; the word polite comes from a word meaning something like "polished," and if something is polished that doesn't imply anything besides a shiny exterior. Now, if we take two situations.. in one there's a man who really hates another man. Yet he smiles at him and does small-talk with him and goes along with everything he says. In the other you have a man who has a lot of respect for another and he smiles at him and does small-talk with him and goes along with everything he says. Do you see a difference in these situations? |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
I realise now that the end of the first paragraph and the beginning of the second may seem to conflict, but they really don't. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
To most people I encounter I am polite, yes. It just seems the natural way to be. Sorry if that makes me a freak. Obviously, when I'm with my friends or people I know I may not be polite at all times, but in that case it's normally good-natured and not genuine rudeness. I understand this may seem contrary to some of the posts I've made at Xltronic in the many years I've been here, but if I've been nasty in the past it's usually been because of the grief I've had in my life which I had allowed to conquer my natural good-naturedness. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
theres a lot of what you could call dishonesty in normal life, especially between an 18yr old and his parents, but perhaps its easier for everyone that way. If you respect your parents but have trouble communicating with them as many people do, this is probably a good time for politeness. It means you can respect them on your own terms (and vice versa) without having to agree on a common ground of respect. I wouldnt like to say politeness is wrong, but it might be a good indicator of a relationship that isn't entirely honest, which covers the majority of your relationships I would imagine... but its not really a problem. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
I tend to wait the situation and see if they deserve a good attitude. Of course I'm not going to start insulting them; they may not deserve that either. Then if I hate them I'll start being nasty if I for some reason can't just leave them (like if they're a friend of a friend or something and will go where I go). And, actually, I'd say that you aren't a freak, and that that is the problem! Too many people are polite instead of anything more honest, and then we get politeness as a "comfortable no-responsibility zone" where one does as one does and no-one is. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
I have to go to sleep now.. I have an oral exam tomorrow. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
You seem to be confusing politeness with lots of other things. Politeness is not a weakness, nor a statement of inferiority. What I don't understand is this: I know that you are fond of kungfu and the philosophy behind it, and part of this is respect and politeness; indeed, this is one of the great strengths behind it, and is far more important than fighting. In fact, the fighting aspect of kungfu is one of its basest elements as it was created as a tool towards meditation, health, and enlightenment. You do not counter hostility with hostility, you do not counter anger with anger, you not trade an eye for an eye as this leads to universal blindness (to paraphrase Martin Luther King and others), and you do not counter rudeness with rudeness. Unless, of course, you want to create a Negative Environment. Personally speaking, I think that what is wrong with modern society is the total lack of respect and politeness, which I believe to be related to the misconceived notion held by so many people that they are somehow superior to others merely by their very existence. And through this misbegotten philosophy, they impose themselves on others around them, caring not a fig about the feelings of others, being condescending to those around them, especially to people in the service industries and those who are of a 'lower social status' than they. If we all carried more respect and politeness with us, society would be transformed. I find that when I'm polite to people, it will usually leave them feeling a little better (unless they are so entrenched in negative arrogance that my politeness makes them angry), and that I feel better when I'm in the company of someone who is open, positive, and polite. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
I think if people just stopped being polite altogether, the world would be even more unpleasant than it already is. i didn't have to hold the door open for the guy behind me as i was going into class this afternoon, in fact he might have been a complete cunt and not deserved the slightest bit of respect, but i did it anyway. so am I fake because i did something polite? should i have just completely ignored the guy because i didn't particularly care about him at the time? being able to control your emotions and caring about how other people feel (talking to them nicely, in general just being polite) is part of what being human is. i don't see why we should just do away with being polite just because it isn't "real." sounds pretty dumb to me. i'll continue to at least try to be courteous and respectful to people in general even if it's "fake" |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
oh yes also, good luck again mr. swift_jams i'm sorry your thread turned into a debate about being polite :( |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
jung does not know even how to spell "young" how can he write a book |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
I think the king-fu isn't so much about being polite as it is about being respectful and not ever underestimating anyone.. and I don't underestimate people.. as I said, I don't take a negative attitude towards someone right from the start, but I don't take a positive one either. I give people a chance to show themselves and if they are assholes I won't bother with them. If they are someone I can respect, I believe them to be intelligent enough to not only handle me being sincere, but to actually prefer that I am sincere over being polite. Now, let's say more people were polite to one another (is that the correct way of spelling that? it looks weird). They are unconditionally polite regardless of their attitude towards other people. What does this help? Let's take as an example a guy that is all obnoxious and no-one really likes him, but everyone keeps on acting polite towards him so he believes his behaviour is well received and bla bla. This guy, because no-one will ever point out to him or take up an attitude towards him that shows him that his behaviour is very tiring in the long run, will never realise that maybe he needs to change because even though he has no friends (due to his behaviour) everyone seems to be positive about his behaviour, at least, so it must be something else wrong.. maybe the way he dresses? Anyway, if people were to stop being polite and rather go away or maybe even someone out of care or pity would tell him that his behaviour is tiring other people, maybe he would take it upon himself to change and then maybe he'd get some real friends? I see almost nothing but bad consequences coming from people being fake. Even though you could say that it sometimes makes people feel better, that'd be a short-time effect and there would most likely be other negative side effects. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
you finish by saying that you are courteous and respectful I'm not really sure about the translation of courteous or how it relates to polite (there may not be a word for it in norwegian, though I know what the word means, but I may only know it in a stricter sense), but you say respectful. Are you being polite or are you being respectful? Do you find that you believe most people deserve respect before they've proven otherwise or do you just act polite towards them? If people stopped being polite, everything would be much better. Our resentment of those that are genuine and honest comes only from our current state where we're so used to people being polite for no good reason whatsoever. It actually makes me think there's more to the terminology of Nietzsche when it comes to master and slave morals; if you can't handle the truth, how are you ever going to get ahead, how are you ever going to get anything done? I want people to tell me what they honestly think so I take the consequences. Sure, sometimes it can make you feel bad for a second or two, but if you know about it, you can do something about it and if it isn't something that bothers you personally you don't have to do anything about it, but it's good to be aware of what other people think of it. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
Well we fundamentally disagree about the reality of politeness. For me, it's real and a part of respect. For you, it's not. End of. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
Your choices are crazy uncle or Iraq? Hmmm..Get a bus ticket for somewhere cool and find roomates and wash dishes at a restaurant. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
farewell james my asshole will be shaven for you when you return. xox |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
oi. still i'd like to give the mastah a little bit of a backup, since i'm going 100% d'accord! yes, that's exactly the way i always interpreted the slave moral principle, too. it's not simply about denying the value of pity in general (zarathustra himself even can't free himself from it in the end... for the better), still there is no way to articulate a "philosophy" (as in, in this case "idea-for-way-of-life") grounded on these conceptions of "politeness", as it keeps everyone on a "lower" (on the individual scales of all involved) level, plus it has the disgusting character of a mere business-deal... you "respect" me=i "respect" you... in the end most of the time it's just about being able to forgive oneself's weakness by pseudo-accepting and not openly criticising the weakness of the other. also, how you seem to conceive the value of friendship, it's exactly how i understood the zarathustrian pladoyer to look out for a friend that is able to despise you, since he's the greatest adorer at the same time and the one who could be of use as an "arrow of passion towards the other shore". honesty and criticism helps both parties involved, and should even be demanded in an intimate relationship. a disagreement is there or not, no matter if you try to fake it, or not... you can only "save it for later". most of the time animosities held back only grow in the back of your mind, even... at least that's my experience. in the end, in all fairness, i should admit that i'm often a very "polite" person myself...but i know it's just fucking cowardice (or in case of business life: survival tactics), at least still being able to be honest to myself (or at least being able to try... phsaw!). oh and by the way... the disgust of someone who you don't conform with anyway is probably the most upright form of praise, right? ;P |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
|
Messageboard index
|
|||||||||
