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now, this probably isn't a new thought to anyone, but I'd just like to see peoples opinions. I'd also like to point out that I'm not talking about just any kind of feminism (there's good and bad feminism as I see it), but rather about the type of feminism that is mainly (in lack of a better word) self-righteous: it's the kind that has as its overall purpose to elevate what they call "feminine" values and viewpoints to a level where they're even superior to what they call "male" or "masculine" values which they also believe to be prevalent throughout society and also that some of these male values were intentionally created to suppress women. Now, one may argue that groups of this kind for one is self-defeating especially in the field of equal rights between men and women since they put such an emphasis on the differences between men and women (and the woman is mostly the one better off in their wordings. Howver, if you remove value-laden words from many of their descriptions of men and women, you'll discover they're basically saying what a "masculine rights" group (I haven't really heard of any like that, but there may be some somewhere) would, according to themselves, say, which also defeats their point in that the difference is smaller. Within this type of feminism there's also a sort of extremist position where the biological sex (as opposed to the social sex) matters more than anything else, and they also still maintain that a woman, because of her biological premisses (sp?), is better than a man at for instance political governing or ethical reasoning. |
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Now, on the other side of things, one can argue that such positions both justified (many have done so) or necessary or both; for such positions to be justified means something like that there actually is some kind of advantage to being a woman in these situations and that men can't in any way think like a woman does. For them to be necessary is for it to actually make a rather significant difference on how women are seen by men if or when men see women as inferior or not equal. Anyway.. what do you think? Would it be better if these kinds of feminists spent their time fighting for equal rights among human beings in total, for instance, not holding on to the distinction, or is the distinction a necessary and valid distinction in that it, generally speaking, gives a better picture of what things are like? If so, one would have to make a proper argument for why we should still have equal rights, or why for instance women should be considered "better" than men and with more rights. |
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and another question related to the last part would be if I am, in fact, only seeing this from a male point of view, but then if I could only see it from a male point of view and women could only see it from a female point of view, how come there are women who agree with me and how would we be able to set any sort of guideline for what is the "correct" way of seeing it? |
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You bitch |
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saney. |
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I'll post some bitches in a music related thread if you make one. just to make amends. |
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If you remove this topic over to www.xlfeminism.com/mb, I will |
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because there's 50% homosexual in every person probably. im not familiar with these feminists groups you speak of. luckly im a man so i don't have to deal with all the shit women must :) |
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the universe is modular |
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Completely 100% off topic here, but i just thought about this: Drunken Mastah, since you apparently like old kung-fu movies, have you seen "Knockabout"? It's ony of my favourites |
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haha, no, I haven't seen that one... it looks great, though, if you disregard the slightly static choreography... also, that link reminded me of some trailer I saw a long time ago on a kung fu vhs.. further down there was a link for operation scorpio (it was called project scorpio in the trailer). I really wanted to see that movie, but I never found it... there was a great scene with a guy fighting fish style.. he was just kind of squirming around on the ground.. it was awesome! it's not in this clip, though, but the scorpion style looks great: |
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I already know it!!! It's well worth the trouble finding it. My brother bought it somewhere, but i can't remember where. It's a really fucked up and cool movie that one! |
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taliban |
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Please give some names of what you deem to be good or bad feminists, rather than just stating that the problem exists. Would it be better if these kinds of feminists spent their time fighting for equal rights among human beings in total... Yes it would. |
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I just can't imagine the circumstances under which I'd actually read this thread. |
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My view is this, you get "I am woman, hear me bore" self-righteous, irritating, moaning cunts (who are either too stupid, or blinded by misandry to have a sensible debate with) and then you get feminists of Camille Paglia's ilk who actually make pretty well reasoned points and even (admirably) don't just try to demonise men and actually point out women's failing too. Note to any girls who object to this post: You fall into the former group. |
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Couldn't agree more. Most of my family is women, and some of my aunts and cousins are just plain stupid when it comes to feminism. They call 'sexist!' at every given chance, even when I carefully decide to say something unisex-neutral that the most intelligent of feminists wouldn't even try to analyze. As for this self righteous feminism, it's getting out of hand. They're fueled with man kinds history towards women, they feel like part of something much bigger when they have a group of others to join them on the other side of the line of separatism. I fucking hate these rotten cunts. |
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Three words: Julie Fucking Birchill |
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what do you think? i think that the mind is a terrible thing to taste Would it be better if these kinds of feminists spent their time fighting for equal rights among human beings in total, for instance, not holding on to the distinction, or is the distinction a necessary and valid distinction in that it, generally speaking, gives a better picture of what things are like? -yes,would it be.And if was like it,then it means that they enjoy suckin cocks,and making cooking. how come there are women who agree with me and how would we be able to set any sort of guideline for what is the "correct" way of seeing it? -he....hehehe...(E=mc2) ....I WOULD REPOINT THIS TEX: it's the kind that has as its overall purpose to elevate what they call "feminine" values and viewpoints to a level where they're even superior to what they call "male" or "masculine" values which they also believe to be prevalent throughout society and also that some of these male values were intentionally created to suppress women. the evolution?.looks examples on nature. and the woman is mostly the one better off in their wordings. i not agree.men are worse lying,so they are better wording to me. ..woman, because of her biological premisses (sp?), is better than a man at for instance political governing or ethical reasoning. i yes agree.they dont need to eat mushrooms. to actually make a rather significant difference on how women are seen by men if or when men see women as inferior or not equal. here,your mind squeeze and confuse.maybe.. hi Drunken talkah,have fun=) |
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sorry. *men are betters lying,then talking,then wording. from the text above. |
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Is it time already for a feminist revival against the male chauvinist revival against archeo-feminism since, oh, the 80's? I think so. congrats, drunken mastah, you're early by about 10 years. you belong to the male chauvinist re-revival against the neo-feminist revival starting in 2012. |
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if you wrote a novel i would read it |
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lol |
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I donate this thread not counting the kung fu part to monoid. the theme is so common it has been done to death, I was just temporarily frustrated by a discussion. |
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the womans hair reached her ankles |
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I'm not saying anything but it's interesting that Ceri and Gwely in their ant-fem posts chose the terms "moaning cunts" and "rotten cunts", respectively. |
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you said something!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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DOH! |
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HA! |
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dont really undesrtand what your talking about |
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its strange really, i think feminism is like paranoia of sorts, like the equivelent of misogyny, if you are prone to that belief system then you will find reinforcement for it everywhere because U are looking for it. Ism rascissm feminism and that fucking load of crap |
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Isn't that last bit of yours quite patronising to women? |
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u n d e r c o v e r l e s b i a n s |
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Only the stupid or unreasonable ones. There are plenty of women who fall into the second category, or indeed, don't feel particularly strongly about feminism at all. Don't you find women like Gwely mentioned, who are constantly looking for sexism and finding it where it's not present (similar to the Viz character, "Millie Tant") extremely tedious and discourteous? I've yet to meet one that could be described as anything even remotely approaching intelligent. |
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My issue was with : Note to any girls who object to this post: You fall into the former group. It seems pretty condescending and 'Ceri knows best' A female may object and not be a moaning cunt as you charmingly phrased it. My own view on feminism is that it is a striving for equality and respect towards women on their own terms. Women who claim they're feminists and a) act masculine to get ahead, or b) try to belittle men or claim superiority for women, in my view, are no more feminists than the USSR was a communist state. |
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I agree with your view of feminism. The women in the former group are akin to the feminists you described. I have no problem being condescending (or indeed insulting) with people who are downright rude. "Feminists" of that school criticise (unfairly) men under one blanket ruling, so I simply behave in a similar manner towards them; hence why I say they're all self-righteous, irritating, moaning cunts. I'm obviously not saying all women (or indeed all feminists) are. Perhaps when I said, "who object to this post", I wasn't being specific enough. I'd hoped the meaning would be clear enough without having to resort to length "legaleese" meanderings, but here we go: Note to any girls who object* to this post: You fall into the former group. *By 'object' I do not mean that you do not disagree with any one facet of my post for any reason. For example, perhaps you think Camille Paglia's views are not worth debating (in short, because you are less of a feminist than I am). This does not mean I think that you should fall into this category. I mean, instead, that if you take exception to the way I described the first group and that character archetype, it is likely that I would class you as a member of that group. Of course, this depends on which grounds you object to it. The main one which would include you would be along the lines of, "But Ceri, you're an inherently horrible, stupid, genetically inferior man, how dare you criticise such noble women who fight for our rights! *moan moan, bitch bitch*". That would garner you automatic inclusion. It needn't be so severe: I think I'd include women who believe that all men alive today should be punished for what women suffered in the past. In short, if you criticise "all men", under some mass blanket, you're an utter hypocrite (you're no better than sexist males who group all women together) and deserve to be tarred with that brush. If you launch into a long diatribe about how women's rights are no laughing matt |
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...If you launch into a long diatribe about how women's rights are no laughing matter and how by joking about it I'm denigrating their struggle, again, into group one with you. Perhaps you disagree with the way I've summarised Paglia's philosophy. Maybe you think she does demonise men. Maybe you think she never criticises women's behaviour. None of those things would make me class you as an irritating, moaning cunt. Hope this clears things up. |
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As an aside, what's you're view on the post-feminist notion that men and women are markedly different? In particular, how do you feel about the (some might opine, cynical) way they (feminists) made out they are "the same" as men, in order to get equal rights and then, once they had them, go off in another direction? Completely understandable course of action or a good reason why they should never have gotten them in the first place? My personal feeling is that it's understandable and that people who object to it probably aren't very aware (or perhaps just sympathetic) to the (very real and vastly more prevalent) sexism in society early last century. |
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... |
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Whoops, wrong . |
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I don't know much about post-feminism, but I would say that of course men and women are (markedly) different, just like people from different ethnicities are different, and not because of nurturing or upbringing or culture, but genetically Watching women try to 'become' men or a person try to cross cultures is like watching someone try to put a square peg into a circular hole. |
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your posts aren't cohesive, they're almost as difficult to understand as falito's. |
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That's not a very nice thing to say to Marlowe. |
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oh you know i wasn't addressing him. that remark was to the norwegian up top. |
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herre he goes. |
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I AM DRUNKEN MASTAH I AM RRIGHT |
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you'rre full of shit |
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how so? |
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he's rright actually. you 'appearr' to think while you type. but when yourr posts arre so huge, forr someone who only intends orr has time even to rread them thrrough once, it's harrd to keep trrack. |
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hmm.. yes, I've never been very good at structuring neither in music or in writing, but I've always managed somehow. I also noticed when I read through it again just now that I forgot to close a parenthesis and that there are a few missing letters... |
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