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funny, I feel people are doing the same with me. I say art isn't good for expressing opinions and people seem to think I hate art as a whole. I just think it's a bad way of expressing opinions and people shouldn't even try unless they're being explicit about it because the effort will be futile compared to just saying what you think straight away. Art is about attempting to express what you can't express with words and even then, but it isn't as futile as attempting to express something we actually have words for. |
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but, art can attempt to convey a message, and still stand on it's own separate from that message. conveying a specific meaning doesn't have to be the sole purpose of a work of art, even if that is one of the intents.. ..of course, bad art is just bad and may fall flat on it's face on all accounts. |
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as an aside i got chills while typing that last post cause i was reminded of a repressed memories of discussing what is and is not art in college. my memories smell like pottery kilns and pacholie. dust and charcoal pencils. it's too late and this one smelly hippy girl is totally dominating the discussion. |
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and there's no edit button on xlt. |
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yes, yes, it can attempt, but the attempt is futile (there is no other word to describe it) in the face of just saying it straight out. it's even possible for art that actually does say something straight out to fail. consider a case where a poem says (something really really deep like) Bush is stupid war sucks someone needs to work out an alternative this poem says something straight out, but if you consider it as a poem it may not gather much acclaim and no-one willl read it or think about its message just because it isn't roundabout enough or something. of course it could be a great hit, but I predirct it won't and for the sake of the example it won't. consider now that the poem was a bit more.. well.. proper, but not more proper as a poem, but that it said something you believe straight out and you would actually want to be considered on a large scale.. it could even be written by your favorite social commentator like Chomsky or Mill or even yourself or something under a pseudonym. now, what would be the most purposeful way for this person to express his views? just think about it. |
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oh, I already said I wouldn't put any limits on what is or isn't art.. most of us just know.. even when someone says "this isn't art, it's wank," they're mostly just classifying it as bad art, not.. "nothing." |
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dan was really funny and nobody noticed. |
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it's not a poem because it's not poetic. it's not art because it's not artistic. there's a reason for all this "roundaboutness" that you don't seem to be picking up on. |
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and you just proved my point: first of all you're discussing what is art instead of what is said in the poem, and secondly you would probably never buy the book containing the poem and miss out on something Chomsky wrote under a pseudonym (read the post again); while you hold his opinions highly otherwise, you wouldn't hold much of what this poet said in high regard. |
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also, even if there is a reason for the roundaboutness (explain it to me please), it isn't a good way of communicating if you actually want people to understand what you're saying. |
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your point was: art only ever inspires debate about the status and state of art, not politics. and i in no way proved that. I just explained why it isn't poetry. Chomsky's not a poet and hasn't professed to be. If he suddenly, one day, decided that he was, and decided to terrible write poetry under a pseudonym, yes, it'd be largely ignored, if he weren't a good poet. It's not just about choosing the right tool for the job, but choosing the right tool that also fits your abilities. as for your other point, art is consumed by the art world. i don't think need to have everything spelled out for them, letter by letter. they thrive on allegory, allusion and hidden meaning. it almost sounds like you're frustrated because you can't understand meaning in art. something to do with mental capacity, i imagine. |
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you would've done better to disprove it if you had said something about the post instead of argue whether or not my example was art or not, and as it was an example, what chomsky actually does is irrelevant. sure, you'd need to be able to use a tool that fits your abilities, but as you also say, this needs to be a tool suited for the job (you can't create a highway with a straw and a glass of water even if you're really good at drinking water through the straw). your next paragraph is in agreement with what I'm saying, but you seem to be elevating art "effects" (I can't come up with a better word) when it comes to expressing views. can you give me an actual reason for this? when it comes to your last paragraph: I'm not frustrated, but I believe I would be if I went around searching for meaning in art, and even when I believe I "understand" something about a piece of art, I have no aspirations to tell anyone else what I understand in it nor do I want to ask the creator what he "meant" by it, as this'd just make all art boring roundabout wankery instead of beautiful things. I also think you may be trolling me back for the troll the other day.. hihi. |
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(read the post again) Hahaha, seriously, once is already too much. |
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Actually, it's funny, back on topic, I am currently listening to the Beastie Boys, the not that good job "It takes time to build" "We got a president we didn't elect", fancy that! |
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power to the people ! |
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don't paint a fucking picture you fucking inbrred cunt. |
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Lolzorz, but Ceri, they're just talking about things that are important to them |
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punk |
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'don't paint a fucking picture you fucking inbrred cunt. aren't we missing something Anus? |
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Sorry I had work to do. I guess, I want to know, would Animal Farm be as great if it A) were just a story about farm animals or B) were an essay? Sure, an essay would be fine and would get the point across. But, because of the allegories, Animal Farm I think, provides a unique perspective. An essay with the sentence "Communism, as it existed in the Soviet Union, was hypocrisy." would be easily forgotten and fairly useless in terms of providing any impact on the reader. Also, by disguising it as a novel, he has reached a larger audience than he would with an essay, which would make it in a journal, or magazine, perhaps. I think its the different perspective that allegory provides which gives it its worth. |
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that's a good point actually, but the fact that a novel has a broader audience than a proper political treatise or debate says more about the world we live in today than it does about the communicative powers of art. you should also remember that there is the possibility of someone actually just reading it as a book about farm animals, and that it would in fact not be a "bad" interpretation of its contents. It could even be read as a social anthropology study to see which characters we relate to which animals in that we attribute certain of the animals' anthropomorph "character" traits to people (a hard working horse, a self-indulgent pig, etc). |
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Bush is a cool guy anyway. |
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the coolest. |
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Of course, there are always people who don't get art. But art with a message usually has enough of a concrete aspect to it to make the message accessible. But there are also people who can't understand any technical words that would come up in an essay on the same subject. I would say though, that some art does disguise the message and these are generally of lesser quality than that which doesn't. The same goes for art which would blatantly put "Bush is a prick" in the middle of one of their songs, being just the opposite. |
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I wouldn't really say the people with different interpretations of a work of art from your own/the most common one are people who "don't get it," but rather people with a different, but just as valid, interpretation of the piece in question; the level of ambiguity validates even the most far-fetched interpretations (I'd also like to add that the artist has no "final say" in what people are to "understand" by his work.. he forfeited that right when he chose to express himself so much more ambiguously than what is necessary). |
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"Don't get it" meant "don't get the artists intention." |
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Well, it was supposed to : / |
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way to go, drunken mastah, sticking up for the retards. |
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ah, right. it still sort of applies, though. |
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Chill |
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someone tried stealing his smoke |
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Expressing a political view does not require you to absolutely tell people what to think. If you inspire a new line of thought or just add to the process of them making their own minds up, regardless of what medium your message is delivered through, then your art is as valid as any political speech. |
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Lights out, guerrilla radio! |
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Memory Of The Dead (Land or Libery) Wealthy vampires with the cold hands of executioners execute executive decisions determined to destroy what 1 million women, children, and men 1910 died, drowning in the rage of battle. mothers, half naked infants clutching their necks running frantically tripping over the bodies of their sons teeth gnashing swinging machete spitting blood and mud, and screaming: land, and liberty! were erased. buried and burned along with the memory of the dead along with the ejido. with the smooth stroke of a pen and with the ghost of Nixon present in their eyes they smiled. and pronounced the omnipotence of the free market the profits of profit extending the scurge of columbus and pizarro the freedom to buy things you can never afford the freedom for indians to buy corn that once flourished overgrown in their backyards the freedom to die of curable disease the freedom to watch their children's stomachs swell and burst the freedom to starve and die without land or liberty but Ramona, with eyes of obsidian peering through her blood and sweat drenched mask darding, unseen changing direction with the swiftness of a bird through the shanty's of the canyon with every coyote, every insect, every phylum of life urging her, propelling her forward. the leaves and branches of the forest part for miles, clearing her path the voices and screams of the dead beneathe her feet echo in the deepest chasm of her soul hurling her, toward the city history surging through her veins pulsing through her fingers hurling her, towards the city she caresses her trigger and the words of magome fulfil her being and with each shot she fires, she affirms her movement saying: enough! enough! no! I will see my own blood flow before you take my land...or my liberty - Zack de la Rocha |
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when i skimmed over the title of this thread I read 'bangbus' l o l |
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political songs are a good idea, since most retard americans dont seem to question bush, or politicians in general. anything that makes them think is good. |
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