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 (nobody)...and 419 guests Last 5 registered Oplandisks nothingstar N_loop yipe foxtrotromeo Browse members... |
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as far as i know Hubbard was apparently in alot of financial problems in his later life, and he made up scientology based on his "dianetics" system as a sort of bet, isaac asimov, heinlein and john w campbell were all in on it too. |
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i know the clambake site is biased, but they do have a whole lot of documents you can look at. scanned contracts, notes, stolen secret papers, photographs. |
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Well, my father was once friends with a scientologist from Germany until some money fraud was revealed and the guy fled Europe. He left Ron Hubbard's "Scientology - the book of basics" as a gift for my father. I can assure you it's complete mumbo-jumbo. New age bullshit with a scientific vocabulary in a few places. More than 100 pages of statements and advices so vague that you really can;t disagree with them. You can download the book from emule for sure. |
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Xenu!!!!!! You don't find out about Xenu untill you've had many years indoctrination from the 'church'. I wonder if Tom and the other stars are fast-tracked through the 'levels' and learn about it earlier? Seriously, this shit is fucked up |
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so.. is there anyone who knows what scientology is yet? |
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My GOD most people are closed-minded idiots compared to you. |
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yeah, I was more trying to figure out if people actually know what they're criticising... more often than not, they don't. this xenu stuff seems extremely weird... and this.. well.. for some reason, I tend to believe that this part "Scientologists argue that published accounts of the Xenu story and other colorful teachings are presented out of context" somehow must have some truth to it; it seems unreasonable for anyone to believe what I just read. |
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well, i guess you should go down to your local scientology church and ask for some info. i could drive you to one if you lived around here. i know where it is - huge sign on the building, right near the train station. |
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Good old arf, always ready to give folks a lift to the Scientology church by the train station. |
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"The "Hidden Truth" about the nature of the universe is taught to only the most advanced Scientologists, those who have achieved the level "clear", in a series of courses known as the Advanced Levels. The contents of these courses are held in strict confidence within Scientology. They have never been published by the Church, except for use in highly secure areas. The most advanced of all are the eight Operating Thetan levels, which require the initiate to be thoroughly prepared. The highest level, OT VIII, is only disclosed at sea, on the Scientology cruise ship Freewinds. Because Scientology is a mystery religion, the more closely guarded and esoteric teachings imparted at these higher levels may not always be entirely consistent with its entry-level teachings." no way. thats AWSOME! |
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The Pope, the Dali Lama and Archbishop of Canterbury should all get cruise ships and hang out in Miami...... shit yeah! |
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objectively presenting both sides of the story is not the same as saying they both contain as much truth. i think you shouldn't look at it as an argument in which you respect both sides anyway. when you want make an academic observation of scientology you have to sum up all the stuff that doesn't make sense and it will look like you're slaying it anyway. as i read on wiki: non-point of view is not the same as balancing out opinions pro and contra. it's a sect. in falun gong (or some other sect i saw a documentary about) the method is you have to read a book that explains it all, when you're done and still have question read again. after reading it a hundred times you then don't have any question anymore. it's useless and even bad to try and take this stuff serious. |
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everything u wrote here about religion is on Life of Brian |
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i think scientology was a kind of experiment into hypnosis / psychology of belief / magick / whatever u want to call it i think maybe thats why William Burroughs was interested in it its pretty hilarious some of the shit in it that ppl swallow and regurgitate piecemeal and straight faced .... carrying around loads of aliens inside of u!!! |
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http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Secrets/E-Meter/tbite.html quite interesting |
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Scientology is ingenious because it preys on and passes from actor to actor, who are susceptible idiots who have lots and lots of money. Maybe I could invent some scheme to drain money from "professional" wrestlers or something. "In January of 1975 I was working on my first film in Durango, Mexico. There I met an actress who gave me the book Dianetics. During the five weeks we were filming she gave me some auditing sessions and applied some basic principles. That was when I became involved in Dianetics-because it worked. When I returned to the United States I began Scientology training and auditing. My career immediately took off and I landed a lead role on the TV show "Welcome Back Kotter" and had a string of successful films. I have been a successful actor for 17 years and Scientology has played a major role in that success. I have a wonderful child and a great marriage because I apply L. Ron Hubbard's technology to this area of my life. As a Scientologist I have the technology to handle life's problems and I have used this to help others in life as well. I would say that Scientology put me into the big time. John Travolta Actor" |
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not advised. give them any contact information and they'll probably leech to you |
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i can't respect any religion more than the other, really. |
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Just another proof that celebritydom messes up your self perspective. - I'm must be something special and therefore need a special religion. - John and Patricia? Those are baby names for normal people. MY kids shall be named Celestial Saturation and Mahogany Blossom. - I must build my own private amusement park |
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the only important thing to know is that they are complete assholes was linked by fleet in thread. in one of the pictures you can read this quote from l ron: "The law can be used very easily to harass, and enough harassment on somebody who is simply on the thin edge anyway… will generally be sufficient to cause his professional decrease. If possible, of course, ruin him utterly." the biggest infiltration in history of the us government in the 70s, by members of scientology, among which l ron's wife to destroy negative evidence doesn't look too good either. the words of l ron are made more clear in these videos: who wants to become a member of a religion that lacks all compassion? (and has a spiritual leader that went by the fist name l. ron) |
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all i know really is what i've read on webnet messageboards, and seen tom cruise rant about on matt laurer and whatnot. i think saying you gotta understand what it is that you hate is kinda a cheap way out... i mean, it's not really a secret that they believe some outlandish things, and openly make somewhat outlandish claims. and the fact that they make it so very hard (possibly even dangerous, if you believe what you read on the webnets) to understand what drives their claims, i think it is quite fair to distrust and dislike their organization. they don't seem entirely benign, so i think the burden is on them to explain themselves, and why exactly we shouldn't dislike them. however they are quite hostile to explaining. |
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nothing cheap about knowing what it is you hate. if yo don't you may end up in a situation where you go around hating something you think is something, but in reality is nothing; you hate nothing, and even though humans are able to concern themselves with nothing, this hate will be a specially fruitless form of hate.. this should not, however, be confused with "you have to have been there to criticise." You can criticise their shady methods, etc, but when it comes to the people who are members and their beliefs.. well, it's kind of hard to tell what their beliefs actually are, but allowing not knowing something to be a reason to hate or dislike it is no better than allowing yourself to hate any foreign or unknown culture. |
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Right.. I mean, I kinda agree.. with this "nothing cheap about knowing what it is you hate." However, it is their active campaign of keeping me from being able to understand that I hate. |
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from my point of view they are preaching bullshit. misleading people sometimes with dangerous and tragically avoidable consequences. they could be right here, but they are doing a horrible job of explaining why they are right. even people who want to understand are actively kept from understanding. these are not hallmarks of a group that should be respected. |
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yeah, that is a bit sucky, and I am in no way suggesting that anyone should seek them out and join them and stay under cover for seven months to be able to tell the rest of us what it's about, but I think they benefit more from any attention than they do if people ignore them.. of course, you ignore them up until a certain limit; if they break any law, like one member favoring another member when considering who to employ in their company or if a politician or judge gives favor to another member, etc.. also if they are ever violent or opressive, and shit like that, but shit like tom cruise eating his wifes.. eh.. that thing that comes out with the child doesn't even deserve any attention.. not even the smallest sentence on an internet blog. |
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that's just the thing, though.. what is the bullshit they're preaching? that story about xenu and whatever.. the one portrayed in southpark and any other easily available resource doesn't even seem reasonable to deranged people, so I believe it's a kind of "imagery" to go with some kind of new age therapy stuff (like, those souls that attach to your body and weigh you down are a metaphor for something negative energy like that you can, through this therapy, get rid of). |
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well, yeah, but.. i'm pretty sure that there's several different issues here that are being smashed together into a single argument. i think there's the celebrity worship thing, which i think is completely overblown. but, there's also the fact that these people are promoting compeletly irrational beliefs. basing their actions on things that have to grounding in reality. and, being people of influence (whether their influence is justified or not) they do have an impact. i think it is important that people base their actions on reason and logic, so i don't feel completely irresponsible discussing that on the web/net[s]. |
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"that's just the thing, though.. what is the bullshit they're preaching?" who fucking knows? they won't tell me. |
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i remember talking to a scientologist at one of their "stop takin drugs plz" rallies at the top of dublin's busiest shopping street. ultimately i felt a lot of pity for him. |
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oh well, i mean, i've read people's accounts of scientology wierdos pulling people out of therapy, and refusing medical attention, and denying prescription medicine and whatnot... sometimes leading to deaths or worsening conditions. but, who knows if it's all true right? that is the thing. they are secretive and deceptive. |
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I am a scientologist |
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i think it is important that people base their actions on reason and logic one of the main points of belief is to transcend reason. to have something completely uncomprehensible that you just.. believe in. I'm not religious, but I don't believe a world where everyone based their actions on reason and logic would be a desireable one... I agree with the thing where people have influence shouldn't promote their personal beliefs even if they're just some silly celebrity; with influence comes more responsibility than what you already have, and if you aren't capable of handling your responsibility, you should be stripped of your influence.. unfortunately we can't just say to people like tom cruise "hey, dude, you've totally misused your position, so you're just regular Joe America again. fuck off) |
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Here's where we part ways. :-) |
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does that mean you're going somewhere, or do you actually believe all actions should be based on reason and logic? |
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yeah, i've seen that stuff. it's not really the same as if they were explaining things themselves, but it does make them sound like suckos for sure. but, i mean, when you're taking things on faith and actively encouraging flat out lies (as it seems the scientology organization does) you create a situation where it is virtually impossible to falsify your claims. it can be handy indeed, but it won't earn much respect from me.. oh wells. |
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i think actions should be based on the most reasonable and logically verifiable information available, yes. i just had a feeling that we would get to this point in the debate sooner or later and our paths would separate there. :) |
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indeed, i get what you mean. FYI, there was a rather extensive collection of scientology ebooks going on oink a few weeks ago. i'd say it's still there. that'd have the same material, from the very people themselves, for your disection. |
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hehe, yeah, maybe.. I just want to ask you a few questions about that.. position. I never met anyone who believes it, and I don't believe it is possible to live by myself... do you never act on a hunch or out of compassion? or do you define these as being within the confines of reason? what about letting feelings decide your course of action? |
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well, i mean, i'm not a flawless being or anything, so i don't always act the way that i think is best. not sure exactly how to answer that though. but, yes. i do try to make reasonable choices and i attempt to base my hunches and compassion on reason... if that makes any sense at all. |
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you're going to paint me into a philosophical corner, aren't you? |
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"what about letting feelings decide your course of action?" Well, I think if your "feelings" conflict with sound reasonable and logical evidence then it could very well be unethical to follow your feelings. for instance, we have some neighbors that follow the particular strand of catholicism that doesn't believe in vaccinating their children. this not only puts their children at risk, but makes turns them into little infections disease vectors... plus, they don't believe in birth control so they shit out tons of the little measles machines. so, yeah, in that case they are acting on their feelings and i think that behavior is irresponsible. also, it's hard to debate and convince them of this since their beliefs are not based on reason, they are based on faith. dangerous and detrimental. |
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in the sense that philosophy is about reality, yes as long as you acknowledge that you can't live as you preach, I have nothing more to add I will now drink some alcohol. |
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you're a consequentialist, then? |
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for instance, in theory, i think proper spelling is a pretty good goal to aspire to. however, in reality i fail fucking miserably at it. |
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yeah, I think keeping the written part of things "proper" is a good idea.. not because I like formalities, but I think it's good to have a few things to hang on to and "do properly," plus it really isn't all that hard to write properly (in your native language).. it doesn't take much work at all, just a bit of attention. |
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beat beat beat |
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brb.. gotta wiki Consequentialism |
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it's just a term to make you feel a bit worse about not knowing about it |
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