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...in the garden of eden have age rings? |
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7 |
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well 1 year is the time the erath takes for 1 revolution around the sun, so if the garden of eden was on earth then yes. |
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salut |
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bien? |
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good question, ask your local priest about it. personally i don't believe in those things, and i'm really glad to know (or at least, believe) that above sky there is space, not heaven... i can't be certain of anything, but now i really don't get anymore how christians can feel comfortable in believing what the bible says, believing in a god that would have all and every power over them, and would -just one example, there are dozens of them- change a woman into a statue of salt just because she turned over to watch a city being destroyed by him. tell me now, how fucked up and wrong (not to mention silly) is that?.. i don't think this is more likely to be real than any other religion, legend, fairy tale or whatever just because millions and millions of people believe it and have believed in it for a very long time. |
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there is no god, only watmm. |
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Fools. The Invisible Pink Unicorn created the cosmos with the appearance of age. It was actually created last Thursday. |
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yes, because ridiculing people is the best way of criticizing. way to go. you probably enjoyed that guy who said that if people believe in god they may just as well believe in a large flying spaghetti man. yay argument go. |
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sorry, I get annoyed at stuff that annoys me. |
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tre bien, merci |
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err, followup to yann_g. kthx |
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wow now that's impressive! |
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damn i thought you changed your friend. i shitted in my pants! brb |
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Well, I suppose you could view religious texts as mythical, life-affirming spiritual truths that use fantastical stories as representations of basic truths about "God"... I know a fair few intelligent Christians who can reconcille their faith with what the majority of scientists believe and have reasonable explinations for believing what they do. Sorry to take this thread astray! Just thought that needed saying. |
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He asks if trees in the garden of eden had rings and you're telling me the invisible pink unicorn is ridiculous? They're perfectly isomorphic examples of nonsense. |
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well that's just the only way church could use to keep the faith in their believers. once they're proven wrong by science they wait a few years and say "yes but actually it's all just symbols". when it was written it was a bunch of hypothesis about the creation of earth, and a tool to organize society with rules that are not meant to be crossed. i guess god just represents the knowledge we're not able to reach in a lifetime, or something like that. maybe there is a god who created earth and all that, we'll probly never know (or maybe when we die) but what we know for sure is that religions were the creations of humans, and therefore cannot be healthily trusted. |
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well, I didn't react to you in this setting. I just reacted to the stupid reply to anything that has to do with christianity. I'm not going into this again, however, so carry on. I've stated my mind. |
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one should read "a few _hundred_ years", sorry. |
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LOL @ the spaghetti man. |
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Just for the record I have nothing against Christianity, only against fundamentalist / literalist interpretations of the Bible that fail to place clearly mythical accounts into a cultural context. |
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Even if religions are purely the work of humans with no spiritual intervention at all, why can't we learn something from them and enjoy what they have to offer? I don't like to view things in a purely dry, mathematical and "accurate" scientific way. I'm not saying you do at all, but sometimes the ideas of religions are beneficial for your worldview; viewing the world through myths, poetry, stories and exaggerated opposites has its place, imho. |
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That said, I do believe it is important to rely on the scientific method. I'm not supporting belief in young earth creationism or any such nonsense. But I think it is possible to accept scientific facts about the universe, yet also view people, life, and the world in a more fantastical, poetic sense. Religion is merely an expression of this, imho. |
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You can tell which posts are part of this illusion and not created by any living person: They're the ones with black, non-clickable, user names. |
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sure, but there are many atheist philosophers that spread what's good in religions. the justice/legislative(does that word make sense?) systems are meant to replace many codes written in the holy books. like don't kill etc. fact is that people/societies evolve. religions are far away from up-to-date. they're irrelevant until god comes again and says "hey i exist". just like fleetmouse i don't have much (well he has "nothing") against christianity (or other religions) apart from the fact that they are based on many human sicknesses, and help them driving back(?) what they want to drive back(?) (i use a very old french-english dictionnary). faith is a system of beliefs based on absolutely nothing concrete, it is just the gathering of things we *want* to believe. if someone challenges this system he often becomes an enemy because deep inside the believer knows that he has no proof for what he believes. he can then either 1) change his mind (never occurs does it) 2) kill the idea (or if not possible the man himself, hence many religion wars) 3) be so blind he gives no credit to the challenging ideas. religions are about brainwashing might it be self-made or school/parents-driven. u notice that the worst fundamentalists, the most extreme ones are those freshly converted as we can see in france with muslims for instance. for the myths, poetry etc. well humans have to find a balance between reality and imaginary lands. some religion things can enter the balance of course but imo if you put the whole religion in the balance you don't have room enough for reality. sorry for my crap english :) |
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Ha ha! |
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how effective would christianity be if it didn't talk about an afterlife? heaven is essentialy appealing to peoples greed. |
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Like any religion Christianity has esoteric and exoteric flavors. I've always thought Taoism was pretty subtle but the other day I found a book written by two Chinese Taoists who advocated nonsense about meditating postures, Taoist sex principles, etc. On the back cover one of them is wearing a special Taoist hat of some sort. Lao Tzu and Chuang Tzu must be spinning in their graves. Anyhoo it is helpful to look at some of the things like the that were left out of the "official" bible: 3. Jesus said, "If your leaders say to you, 'Look, the (Father's) kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the (Father's) kingdom is within you and it is outside you. |
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haha, religion. |
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I think that trying to differentiate between religion and secularism as a binary opposition is misleading - religion is simply an older model of the universe, and like most old writings it needs to be read selectively and with attention to context but includes great insights. |
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Religion is merely an expression of this, imho. religion was a tool to control people. it anachronic (se dice en ingles?) now. we have democracies and dictatorships. the poetry in religions is the sugar around the pill. |
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Don't worry about the english, that was better than a lot of my attempts at explaining myself! I don't always understand this obsession with "moving forward" and the idea that religious values must be out of date. I can understand why that would be said of, say, the Old Testament, or the many bizzare and detailed laws of Islam (something I have looked into a lot as of late), but I'd consider aspects of Buddhism, Christianity (not mainstream evangelical fundimentalist Christianity, more Eastern Orthadox/Methodist groups) and other religions and spiritual beliefs timeless. Their "rules" will never need to be updated-only expanded upon and defined in a deeper sense. |
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don't get your first sentence but i agree with the rest. |
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it's not that they *must* be out of date, it's that many *are* out of date, hopefully there are ideas about generosity(?) that are good, but very often they go to far. sacrifice is shown as a very good thing in many cases, i think it's plain stupid. you can give a lot without sacrifying yourself. the sacrifice is the limit in most cases imo. you can give whatever you want to whoever you want until it starts causing you a trauma. there is also that question of guiltiness. jesus died for my sins? wtf! he doesn't even know me = not possible, not mentionning the fact that he died hundred years before i was born. and if one chooses to do so when you don't ask him, you don't owe him anything. i am old enough to be responsible for my mistakes/sins, thank you. imo all this is just a way of controlling people. you owe jesus (and the church is the link) much more than you can give. not mentionning that to let people pay for your deeds does not help you at all. there are so many things in christianism and islam (i guess in judaism too) that lead men to psychosis or neurosis (well maybe they don't lead but they're very much helpful on the way) i think if the only way to get rid of the bad things were to get rid of religions it would be worth it. BUT i doubt it would change anything anyway, cause men are sick and would find some other system to remain the sad fuck that they are, myself included :) BUT I'M TRYING !!! |
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"religion was a tool to control people. it anachronic (se dice en ingles?) now. we have democracies and dictatorships. the poetry in religions is the sugar around the pill." It may have been a tool to control people in some instances, but don't you think it is a little contrived to claim that this is all there is to the developement of religion? And I'm not talking about a possible spiritual influence here. I just dislike it when people write "religion" off as a "tool to control people", in the same way I dislike marxists who claim that history is only determined by economic factors. |
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LOL que boludo que soy :) |
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"I just dislike it when people write "religion" off as a "tool to control people" nobody likes this idea but sadly it's likely to be true |
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It may have been a tool to control people in some instances, but don't you think it is a little contrived to claim that this is all there is to the developement of religion? And I'm not talking about a possible spiritual influence here. I just dislike it when people write "religion" off as a "tool to control people", in the same way I dislike marxists who claim that history is only determined by economic factors. i mean it's one of the reasons why it exists. another reason is that people like someone to tell them what to believe in. i guess television and corporates do this very well nowadays :( to say that history is only determined by economic factors is a belief, not a fact :P but truth is economic factors have more than a huge influence. slavery is the result of economic factors (at least the white use of black lives in the recent history) and this sole example had repercussions that we can't count. hopefully among them there is jazz and reggae but that wasn't worth the horror was it? and that's only one general example. i'm not talking about the individual lives wasted and the damages that remain in the sons of the sons of those slaves. |
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I'm sure religion has been USED as a means to control people, and that some religions have even came into existence due to our desires to control others, but I think some have developed gradually for other reasons too. :-) Perhaps some people genuinely believed that they had experienced the "divine", and told others about it, and they seperated themselves to form a group who believed in similar spiritual ideals? Maybe my view of far too naive, but I do believe that genuine cases like this do occur. Of course, later on, these practices can be abused and used to control people. However, the initial forming of spiritual ideas and religions need not always be out of a desire to control and subjugate others, imho. |
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You have some good points there :-) I'm sure economic factors play a large part in many changes that occur, but they're not the only thing that affects our political, social, and artistic developements imo. |
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Perhaps some people genuinely believed that they had experienced the "divine", and told others about it one can genuinely believe that he had experienced the divine by unconsciently wanting to control over other ppl. this is sick anyway. we all experience weird things. there are differences in the way we interpret those experiences. what we imagine is the cause of something that happened. and those differences come from the mind, from ourselves, not from the outside. they are human. |
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spiritual belief is one thing, religion is another. on my course at uni there are quite a number of christians, and in these people i see no form of introspection or spiritual/intellectual exploration, they are the product of a christian upbringing. this troubles me quite a lot. I have no conclusive point to make, which almost is my point. How can you explore your spirituality if your boundaries are predefined by a religion? |
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course not. some of those other things were mentionned in the "religion" discussion ;) one very important thing is the relation between 1) people wanting to control over the others and 2) people wanting to be controlled. religion (in the past, not now anymore) and politics are both connected to this, and the way humans (and many animals) organize themselves too. few people want to have that amount of responsibilities that come with power (i don't). most, like me would rather be driven but want to chose who to be driven by. truth is in our society we don't chose anymore because our access to information is getting more and more ridiculous, because some (if not most? i hope not!) systems are made to make electoral fraud possible. some people have more and more money (= more and more power) as a consequence, the others have less and less, until god ( :P ) knows what happens. i think we need a revolution but we're almost all too busy with our selfish lives to gather and think about a way to replace the existing system. i don't mention the stupid ideas raised up from times to times. and communism was a nice idea but nice doesn't mean good, plus we know now that it doesn't work. (damn i am so serious today *fart*) |
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religion (in the past, not now anymore) am i forgetting the usa and the islamic countries? and all the other countries where church is not properly separated from their government? |
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