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I think most of you guys know this already, but here`s some definitions to get you more in touch witch this issue: Katharsis is a Greek word, which, generally speaking, means purification of emotional tensions through a contact with a work of art. (In this case of course with music). Or "Purification or cleansing of oneself through undergoing an overwhelming emotional experience. Originated from Aristoteles' description of tragic drama, "a katharsis of pity and terror". Or "Greek word, usually translated as "purgation," which Aristotle used in his definition of tragedy. For some, it refers to the vicarious cleansing of certain emotions in the audience through their representation onstage." My question is simple: do you think that this kind of process/feeling is authentic (here, now, in our times), or at least possible? Any experiences? |
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isn't it Catharsis? |
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it is, also. |
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oh yeah, i purify my emotions all the time... |
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I think music is certainly used as an outlet for any overwhelming emotion. I have many CDs that are reserved for when I feel a particular way. For example if I feel really depressed I'll begin by playing something downbeat like Indie and then switch to some more uplifting stuff. It's a way of pulling through really bad experiences and I find comfort in it. Goths do the same through their emo also in my experience I have found them to become dependant on feeling a certain air of depression simply so that they can listen to their depressing style of music. It's not always a good thing. not sure if that embodies Katharsis but that's as far as I'll read into it... |
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it`s close, maybe, but i think catharsis is an more intense feeling, it`s not only somethin` making you feel better |
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intense in what way? Do you have a particular song which stands out amongst all others which fills you with this intense feeling? I think I know what you mean...'Youth Overrided' by Cave In is a slow reminiscent Indie Rock song in the Coldplay mode which I first hear on the radio during a particularly low point of my life. I limit to hearing it only when I feel really depressed about a girl or something like that. I can't describe the emotion that song gives me if I hear it when I'm feeling low but it's a mix of past memories and fills me with an overwhelming urge to let everything out and simply sit down with a bottle of alcohol and reminisce over failed dreams and missed chances. *sorry I'm rambling* -_- |
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*first heard |
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no i don't rreally |
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i got plenty of such songs, but they`re my sweetest secret :-) example: J.M. Jarre - Souvenire of China. Cocteau Twis - I wear your ring. |
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I have only the one, though I think it must be something similar to katharsis, if not that itself because if someone else heard the song it would probably be a normal and not particularly interesting song to them. have you ever found that you can really like a particular song but when you play it to someone else and are listening to it hoping they'll like it too you seem to find flaws in it (eg. the chorus is a bit slow)? Perhaps it's just me but the feeling you get of the song losing value could be a sort of loss of kathersis. |
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I feel different/good after watching a particularly good film, so for me, I guess so |
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there are only a few songs that give me goosebumps, and im guessing thats about as close as im gonna get to catharsis. stuff like radiohead - idioteque, pixies - where is my mind? and clouddead - dead dogs two. those kinds of songs just give me the shivers and i go "god, this is music." |
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shivers, that could be the point here |
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thanks for raising this really intellectual point, it's got me thinking....something I don't do enough of. I'm downloading your katharsical song by Jean Michel Jarre and will get back to you if I feel anything intense too :) |
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It`s all about getting an emotional boost, the track quality is not most important. Look at my example: many people will tell you that Jarre is lame, cheesy, anf kitschy, but i wouldn`t exchange this song for all Beethoves`s symphonies. |
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try the 2 versions: one, original, from the "Concerts in China" album, and the re-done one from his new "Aero". |
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I see what you mean about the katharsis...though I'd probably describe it more as a sensation of melancholia. Not really music created by Jarre, more or a form of audio art. The camera shutters are certainly interesting and I'd not term it cheesy...I probabky don't get the same feeling you do from it but it is undoubtably powerful stuff for someone in a particular frame of mind. I heard the Concert in China vol.2 version. |
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Melancholia, yes, you`re right. Keep this song and play it when you feel that way (sad, depressed, troubled etc.), and think about the result (more depresed, or.. cleansed). If you`re not only into electronica, i suggest Mike Oldfield`s "Far above the clouds", somethin` completly different. |
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yes, of course. have you ever listened to TOOL, or did an lsd-25. yes, you have, so get off my nutzzz. |
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I think so. If catharsis is some sort of purging of emotion, or sudden life-changing realisation, which is the kinda romantic way to view it. I'd like to think so. I have been to one or two gigs where I'd thought the experience pretty 'cathartic' - as in seriously shudderingly goose-pimple inducing, especially when I was younger when I was less cynical, where I have come away in a completely new excited mindset to when I came in... I did about the whole Greek drama catharsis thing in college, I certainly think it exists, but I'm not sure whether anyone could be permanently purged, but then again I dont think anyone claimed that it was permanent. I'm talking in terms of all art here, especially the dramatic arts. |
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can art really give the same katharsic emotions that music can though? I find some portraits particularly powerful, such as 'The Scream' though it doesn't strike the same chord (no pun intended) as certain music does... _gvarek_ I will download some Oldfield, thanx :) |
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Music is certainly the most powerfull of arts since it`s so direct, next comes poetry, then painting (Picasso, El Greco, Bacon). For me the combination of good poetry and music (simultaneously) does the trick. Completly. |
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I meant art as in artistic creation, not art gallery stuff. I'm talking about everything - music, painting, film, whatever. Its all one and the same. But incidently I do believe its possible to get that effect from a painting, but you have to be in the right mindset. A lot of people break down upon witnessing a beautiful painting or something, especially religious stuff I guess. I was at the Bill Viola exhibition last year its not exactly painting but its close - there was a whole lotta greif happening there. |
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really? wow I would love to be at something like that and have people really emotional around me...I went on a retreat to a benedictine abbey with CS2x before I really knew him as part of our college group and we both had a sort of religious experience there. I'm not particularly a devout catholic but the whole atmosphere of this place deep in the middle of nowhere at night in a dimly lit abbey with hooded monks wandering the halls was something which I've never felt before and I felt a sort of emotional turnoil and holiness inside me...I suppose it might be seen as a form of katharsis even though it wasn't linked to art. |
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yes, art is about the "same", that is about expression of human spirit, about creating beauty, but music is the shortest way to achieve it. |
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I dont know, I think its a combination thats that ultimate. Like how you said poetry and music is the best - well what about throwing in something visual? Which is why I think film is the ultimate artform but its kinda difficult to exploit because its so dependent on money and actors wheras music and literature you don't need anything but yourself really The biggest goose-pimple inducing moments I've had have been at the cinema I think - Lost in Translation, the bit in the taxi, 'Sometimes' by MBV with sleeping Scarlett & the hazy neon of night Tokyo city centre accompanying - perfect - An emo one this, sorry - the bag scene in American Beauty, awesome Newman piano ambience accompanying 2 lovers sitting tearfully with overlaying monologue about beauty - Mulholland Drive, at Club Silencio, the 'Llorando' accapella reverberating whilst the women break into tears. |
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the scene in 'What Women Want' where Mel Gibson dances to Frank Sinatra against a backdrop of New York at night from his penthouse apartment windows....it really is sublime and such a romantic and perfectly constructed visual moment. It got me into Sinatra for sure, though the rest of the film wasn't anything special. |
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Well I exaggerate but there were a few tears shed. But I know that there are some pretty full on emo responses to his stuff, I actually did a project on this whole principle in his work for a piece of coursework a couple of years ago. |
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What Women Want?? Ur emo. |
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Film is easy-accesible, since you get picture-sound-music at once. I`m not a big move fan though, for me it`s too difficult to "embrace" a whole movie experience. And it`s not as intense as music, too time-stretched. Nevertheless my favourite movie would be "Blade Runner": based on a book by my favourite author Philip K. Dick, an with Vangelis` music; some disturbing moments there. Quite a good combination would be painting with music, as Vangelis did with his "El Greco" album (superb!), but it`s very difficult to accomplish. |
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the most cathartic piece of art i've ever experienced was movie, and a slow one at that. "ikiru", probably akira kurasawa's greatest film. the end is sublime. i think catharsis can come randomly, but i'd generally say book>movies>music for cathartic value. the more time you invest the more pay off. |
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I'm not emo! thats Frank Sinatra...... |
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Art uses a lot of the right side of the brain. The right side of the brain stores human emotion responses. So, I'd say not only does the viewer/listener go into a state of catharsis, but the creator of the piece of art goes into a similar state while making the piece of art. I've had people tell me that some tracks I've done make them feel one way or another, emotionally. But sometimes they feel 2 or 3 different emotions at once. A strange thing is, someone may think of happiness when they hear it, while someone else may think of sadness or something disturbing when they hear it. |
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we do not see things as they are, we see them as we are. |
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Nice! |
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