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is it rational to believe in god?
 

offline Drunken Mastah from OPPERKLASSESVIN!!! (Norway) on 2005-02-28 15:35 [#01516262]
Points: 35867 Status: Lurker | Show recordbag



is it rational to believe in god? What would you
say?


 

offline tolstoyed from the ocean on 2005-02-28 15:37 [#01516263]
Points: 50073 Status: Moderator



yes, if it keeps you sane.

 

offline hobbes from age on 2005-02-28 15:37 [#01516264]
Points: 8168 Status: Lurker | Followup to Drunken Mastah: #01516262



msn monoid.

 

offline DeadEight from vancouver (Canada) on 2005-02-28 15:38 [#01516266]
Points: 5437 Status: Regular



well... it makes sense... in terms of Pascal's wager... but
if your belief in god causes you to ruin your life and/or
the lives of others, then the wager sort of goes out the
window...

in terms of rationality itself, i don't think it can account
for god, and therefore i would say no... but devoting
oneself to rationality isn't necessarily all that wise
either...

i will catch up on sleep now.


 

offline hobbes from age on 2005-02-28 15:38 [#01516267]
Points: 8168 Status: Lurker



i think it's ok to believe... i don't wanna be the judge
etc....


 

offline horsefactory from 💠 (United Kingdom) on 2005-02-28 15:40 [#01516268]
Points: 14867 Status: Regular



it appears to be happy hour at pete & bernie's philosophical
steakhouse


 

offline mrgypsum on 2005-02-28 15:41 [#01516269]
Points: 5103 Status: Lurker



define what rational means, i would take rational to mean -
the philosophical definition, meaning we are rational beings
that have a certain degree of accountability when we think,
we think or work out unknowns or problems in a responcible
way.

and yes it is rational to believe in a god concept, but to
believe in a white elderly man that lives in the sky, that
is not rational.


 

offline welt on 2005-02-28 15:41 [#01516270]
Points: 2036 Status: Lurker



i think that religion is part of "human nature". human
beings are religious beings. so in a way it is right to
believe in god (wheter or not he exists). on the other hand
the religious desire can be satisfied in other ways: for
example glorification of a facistic leader.
then again believin in god is not only the question "does
god exist??" but believe in god implies a RELIGIOUS FEELING.
i think the religious feeling i something the individual
creates. it's a human feeling that's directed towards a god
but fully human. so i think you could direct that religous
feeling towards other human beings only. without a god being
involved.
THAT'S WHAT I THINK, MOFOS.

 

offline Rostasky from United States on 2005-02-28 15:42 [#01516273]
Points: 1572 Status: Lurker



THe concept of god isn't rational, but it would be rational
to believe in god if that makes you happy.


 

offline cygnus from nowhere and everyplace on 2005-02-28 15:42 [#01516274]
Points: 11920 Status: Regular



the question should be; "is faith rational?"

and the answer is yes

 

offline mrgypsum on 2005-02-28 15:43 [#01516275]
Points: 5103 Status: Lurker | Followup to welt: #01516270



can you explain what you mean, because i didnt follow a word
you just typed.


 

offline mrgypsum on 2005-02-28 15:43 [#01516276]
Points: 5103 Status: Lurker | Followup to Rostasky: #01516273



is it rational to seek happiness, all of the time?

 

offline Drunken Mastah from OPPERKLASSESVIN!!! (Norway) on 2005-02-28 15:43 [#01516277]
Points: 35867 Status: Lurker | Show recordbag



I was just bored and planning to throw pascals wager in the
face of the first person who said "no."

annoying people is amazing!

 

offline Rostasky from United States on 2005-02-28 15:45 [#01516279]
Points: 1572 Status: Lurker



Pascal's wager is not rational, as it assumes that a god
determines your destiny by whether or not you believe in it
or not, not by how you live your life. This would assume
god is prideful.


 

offline DeadEight from vancouver (Canada) on 2005-02-28 15:46 [#01516280]
Points: 5437 Status: Regular | Followup to Rostasky: #01516273



yeah, basically...


 

offline Rostasky from United States on 2005-02-28 15:46 [#01516281]
Points: 1572 Status: Lurker



And yes, it is rational to seek happiness all the time, as
there is no other meaning to life.


 

offline DeadEight from vancouver (Canada) on 2005-02-28 15:48 [#01516283]
Points: 5437 Status: Regular



where's my steak?!

 

offline welt on 2005-02-28 15:48 [#01516284]
Points: 2036 Status: Lurker | Followup to mrgypsum: #01516275



EXPLAIN is 2 much. i have 2 go 2 bed now.

 

offline mrgypsum on 2005-02-28 15:49 [#01516286]
Points: 5103 Status: Lurker | Followup to Rostasky: #01516281



i dont think so, i dont think it is rational to seek a
feeling that is so subjective (depends from person to
person), you become a slave to happiness, it is not rational
to become dependant on something.


 

offline Drunken Mastah from OPPERKLASSESVIN!!! (Norway) on 2005-02-28 15:49 [#01516287]
Points: 35867 Status: Lurker | Followup to Rostasky: #01516279 | Show recordbag



eh, yes, and that's what (the christian) god (who is the one
it and I am talking about) is. He damns those who doesn't
believe in him.

I'm waiting for someone to say "no."

 

offline Rostasky from United States on 2005-02-28 15:53 [#01516289]
Points: 1572 Status: Lurker



Whether you know it or not, you are already a slave to your
own happiness, whether it is emotional (pride), physical(sex
or food), or mental (curiosity). If you can come up with a
better purpose for life than to capitalize on this, please
do.


 

offline Fuckwagon from Dallas (United States) on 2005-02-28 15:54 [#01516290]
Points: 1304 Status: Lurker



no

where's the proof

 

offline Dannn_ from United Kingdom on 2005-02-28 15:55 [#01516291]
Points: 7877 Status: Lurker



Pascal's wager doesn't fly with me, for the same reasons I
should believe I am Spiderman because if I am Spiderman and
I don't believe it then I'm a complete cunt.


 

offline tolstoyed from the ocean on 2005-02-28 16:00 [#01516297]
Points: 50073 Status: Moderator



haha :)

 

offline uzim on 2005-02-28 16:01 [#01516298]
Points: 17716 Status: Lurker



interesting subject...

 

offline Raz0rBlade_uk on 2005-02-28 16:05 [#01516301]
Points: 12540 Status: Addict | Followup to Drunken Mastah: #01516262 | Show recordbag



ask yourself is it logical to believe in God or a god? a
part of me thinks that you may aswell believe in something
just in case it's true. depending on your choice it's pot
luck as nobody knows the truth and nobody ever will.


 

offline Rostasky from United States on 2005-02-28 16:07 [#01516305]
Points: 1572 Status: Lurker



I can't believe people still believe in a literal hell.
Hell for most people is an emptiness, I think, and if you
don't believe in god, and don't have that emptiness, then it
wouldn't be rational to believe in god.


 

offline Fuckwagon from Dallas (United States) on 2005-02-28 16:08 [#01516307]
Points: 1304 Status: Lurker



if you believe in something just in case it's true, are you
really believing it?


 

offline r40f from qrters tea party on 2005-02-28 16:09 [#01516308]
Points: 14210 Status: Regular



"is it rational to believe in..."

no.

 

offline mrgypsum on 2005-02-28 16:11 [#01516314]
Points: 5103 Status: Lurker



my belief in such things is that it is all bull shit, there
is no god there is no devil, there is no truth to what
religion tells you, we are on a rock in space, hurtling past
a giant fire ball, if anything i believe in choas, for this
is the only force which holds true over it all.


 

offline Raz0rBlade_uk on 2005-02-28 16:12 [#01516316]
Points: 12540 Status: Addict | Followup to Fuckwagon: #01516307 | Show recordbag



if you are saying it like that, in the superficial sense
then I imagine not. However the choice to believe in the
first place is just a stepping stone to what will make you
carry on believeing.

I don't think I've thought about this topic enough though to
discuss it in depth.


 

offline Drunken Mastah from OPPERKLASSESVIN!!! (Norway) on 2005-02-28 16:13 [#01516317]
Points: 35867 Status: Lurker | Show recordbag



this turned out wrong. you're all way too tolerant and
politically correct.

the thread will now be surgically expanded.

 

offline Drunken Mastah from OPPERKLASSESVIN!!! (Norway) on 2005-02-28 16:16 [#01516321]
Points: 35867 Status: Lurker | Show recordbag



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offline mrgypsum on 2005-02-28 16:19 [#01516325]
Points: 5103 Status: Lurker | Followup to Drunken Mastah: #01516321



but god loves you drunken? how could you create this thread
knowing that.


 

offline clint from Silencio... (United Kingdom) on 2005-02-28 16:23 [#01516327]
Points: 3447 Status: Lurker | Followup to Rostasky: #01516305



Man there was a great thread a while back with a link to a
bible-belt radio program that broadcast a 'recording of
hell'... seriously. It was a tape that someone claimed was
recorded by a miner who 'struck hell' if you will.


 

offline clint from Silencio... (United Kingdom) on 2005-02-28 16:27 [#01516329]
Points: 3447 Status: Lurker | Followup to Raz0rBlade_uk: #01516316



I disagree... I don't think we have to persue things before
we eventually believe them. I'd like to think that in a
romantic sense we are all capable of having some sort of
religious or spiritual epiphany prompted by something or
nothing, although my intellectual mind disagrees...


 

offline Drunken Mastah from OPPERKLASSESVIN!!! (Norway) on 2005-02-28 16:38 [#01516332]
Points: 35867 Status: Lurker | Show recordbag



oh, by all means. keep on discussing even though I'm
discouraged. I'll probably learn something from y'all...
discussions are good for learning.


 

offline Raz0rBlade_uk on 2005-02-28 16:50 [#01516337]
Points: 12540 Status: Addict | Followup to clint: #01516329 | Show recordbag



No, I totally understand that and accept that. I was just
toying with the idea of logic and religion as I imagine the
majority of religious people believe out of fear of death.
Like yourself I do like to think of it happening 'just like
that' kinda thing.


 

offline tolstoyed from the ocean on 2005-02-28 16:52 [#01516338]
Points: 50073 Status: Moderator



href="http://s18.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=2QQ6O8JBQB0YK3UZV3
here's a religious song we can all sing
along to.


 

offline tolstoyed from the ocean on 2005-02-28 16:52 [#01516339]
Points: 50073 Status: Moderator



try here

 

offline Rostasky from United States on 2005-02-28 17:09 [#01516354]
Points: 1572 Status: Lurker



True, no one should believe out of fear. An all-knowing god
would know that you were only "believing" to get into
heaven, and if he were just, would break your ass down.


 

offline magicant from Canada on 2005-02-28 20:43 [#01516518]
Points: 2465 Status: Lurker | Followup to Rostasky: #01516354



in the book of Acts, the Angel of the Lord appeared to a
Roman centurion who was "God-fearing". he felt because of
this, he deserved to know the truth about Jesus, so he told
him to send two servants to fetch St. Peter so he'd tell him
the "Good News".

at the exact same time, St. Peter had a vision: God showed
him a platter of a bunch of animals that Moses had
forbidden. God said "Eat" and Peter said "I will not eat
these disgusting animals," and God said "What God has
made clean, you have no right to call profane.". he
repeated that line 3 times - at this point, the two servants
came to Peter and asked him to come to the Roman centurion.
Peter realized that the vision meant that it doesn't matter
what race you are - if you're a good person, then you are
worthy of Truth.


 

offline OK on 2005-02-28 21:18 [#01516538]
Points: 4791 Status: Lurker



well conciousness is so strange it makes you thing that.

 

offline Taxidermist from Black Grass on 2005-03-01 02:27 [#01516658]
Points: 9958 Status: Lurker



Yes it is.

 

offline obara from Utrecht on 2005-03-01 04:07 [#01516699]
Points: 19377 Status: Regular



rational shmacktional

 

offline Ganymede from Tlön, Uqbar, Orbis Tertius on 2005-03-01 09:02 [#01516930]
Points: 1045 Status: Lurker



See this site, and especially this page, to see
how reason and the religious instinct are compatible.


 

offline RedSky from Chicago (United States) on 2005-03-01 12:51 [#01517267]
Points: 139 Status: Addict



According to the principles of Davidsonian rationality, a
belief either in God or not in God would be rational. Mainly
because, in order to have beliefs or propositional attitudes
that can be understood by an interpreter, the agent must be
understood as being an inherently rational one (otherwise we
could not interpret his utterances as standing for distinct
propositional attitudes).

Now- would Davidson claim that a grown man who believes in
the bogeyman is rational? In a general sense, yes. So maybe
Davidsonian rationality isn't all that great.


 

offline DJ Xammax from not America on 2005-03-01 12:54 [#01517275]
Points: 11512 Status: Lurker | Followup to clint: #01516327



I'd love to hear that.

 

offline pOgO from behind your belly button fluff on 2005-03-01 12:55 [#01517276]
Points: 12687 Status: Lurker



yes

 

offline Vastgebonden from New York on 2005-03-01 13:01 [#01517286]
Points: 42 Status: Addict



IAN NOLL BATTLE CRY

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