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 (nobody)...and 490 guests Last 5 registered Oplandisks nothingstar N_loop yipe foxtrotromeo Browse members... |
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Members 8025Messages 2614114 Today 0 Topics 127542 |
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and I only get the cds... which is half of what he has released.. I dont go for vinyls, so its not that I want everything no matter how |
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omg look at this |
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diference: I can understand why people donlt like snares I cannot understand how there is one single soul in this world that doesnt love autechre |
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If you ever find an other copy of giant alien force in the future, please don't forget I havn't got a copy so you can make big money out of me well for me autechre is ok, but I'm not a big fan that's art Jaroen |
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ok, I promise you, if I ever get another copy or know where you can get one I ll tell you about it (and no other) |
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you're the best nacmat! |
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i never said you were a fanboy, i never said there was any crime in it. i think your reflexively defensive tone is not warranted given what i've said. to deny the sexual content of the artwork, however, is absolutely ridiculous. |
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yeah, its obvious to see that its there to shock |
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"you venetian snares fans are so sensitive (apparently from all the criticism aaron gets) : D " __________________________________________________ and by the way I never denied the sexual content of the artwork I denied the artwork describing any kind of sexual attraction towards kids the sexual contents are obvious. and believe me I have no defensive tone... this is not an artwork I did nor an album I did... please believe me I am not posting in a defensive way.. I am just saying what I think, so dont worry about that, unless you need it for your argument |
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i hope that's not more evidence that you can't take a joke. recognizing that it might not be entirely clear, i was just making a joke based on the fact that v.s. seems to have so many detractors... |
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I can take a joke, but being english not my first language I miss lots of jokes many times... its difficult for me to get those little "keys" that tell you when its a joke and when not its difficult for me to get into a deep conversation as I feel very limited by my english vocabulary |
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nacmat: Trevor Brown is well aware that these sort of images which sexualise small girls are just what peodophiles want to see. So they are images which peodo's get off on? They shouldn't be available. It starts the cycle of abuse (again). |
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thats like saying that a movie like natural born killers should be censored cos it makes people want to be a murderer |
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A movie that portrays violence and an image of a small child surrounded by sexual objects and interlaced with innuendo are two completely different things. Although i dont view the cover as bad though. It's not like an actual photograph or anything so you can pretty much go as far as you want with art. |
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nacmat has a point imo after all this is just a drawing, what's the harm done? are people that make or like these drawings committing a crime? that's the same as saying that people that draw death people (or make a movie about murdering people (like nacmat mentioned)) are committing a crime, if drawings like these incite people to commit paedophilic crimes then drawings of dead bodies make people murder somebody, and that's nonsense imo i think you should keep in mind that it's a drawing, not a photograph or something, it's fiction, just like books of marquis de sade are fiction, you can call it sick fiction but not a crime. NB i dislike the artwork myself, witboas was cool but this is not my taste |
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uzim your avatar is fantastic! |
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The contraversy is not the drawing, it's the idea behind it I guess. Children's sexuality is a very touchy subject. |
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you're right, that's why i called it sick, but you can't call it a crime imo (not that you did), just a new way of being controversial, the murder thing has gotten old, pretty stupid if you ask me |
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Yeah, it's just the thrill of breaking taboo. |
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wasn't there another thread on here somewhere were someone posted a quote from mr. snares saying he wrote the music on the album after being inspired by the cover artwork? so i guess, if that was true, it would defeat the argument that the music and cover art are not related. i guess that the art could be trying to express some type of point to the viewer other than shock and fulfil some kind of sick fantasy.. but that meaning could easily be expressed in many other ways.. for example, someone could point out the wrong in killing by painting a picture.. but that picture wouldn't necessarily have to show a gruesome and desensitising scene of someone being killed in order to make that point.. an artist shouldn't feel the need to revel or fantasise in represented immorality to simply make a point about it.. for example, the nirvana nevermind album clearly shows a child's penis on the cover, but can you think of anyone who was offended by it, besides fuckin' the walmart chain or something? most likely no, because it justifies the nudity by making a point other than "a child can be a sex object" which is all i can really see in this horse and goat album.. the nevermind cover is a bit different since it's a real photo, but the context is everything.. the child is nude, but that really isn't the focal point. if in the pool was a bunch of leering old men or if it deliberately depicted some type of taboo sexual imagery, along with the baby, most people would be offended. it would change the picture's meaning from a jab at society/capitalism etc, to a depiction of paedophilia.. not a captured moment of reality, but an expression/depiction of some kind of unacceptable urge/occurrence.. and just because it's a portrayal, do you think that it could make any kind of halfway useful impact on anyone? i mean.. i see that as the difference between art and pornography. art can serves a purpose other than indulgence. |
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if that art is an accompaniment or visual expression of the music's overall meaning, if any, then can its implication be anything other than something along the lines of "i'm sick, but you can learn that my actions and fantasies are immoral from my example" or "well, this is sick, but if you like it, it's okay because you aren't the only one" or simply, "this isn't sick, its natural. let's celebrate it" should one need to deliberately shockingly shed light on an undeniable wickedness in order for someone else to recognise that it is wrong? And.. i don't think the comparison between this and violent movies makes much sense.. most worthwhile violent movies make some kind of a point with that violence, and don't just simply present a string of brutal scenes or images without some type of purpose. if a movie is just a bunch of strung-together violence with no story or no consequences for the violence, then it is a shitty, boring movie in my opinion, and i don't see how anyone could deny that it would cause at least a slight adverse affect in them by watching it, even if they aren't really aware of it.. also, even if this horse 'n' goat album was good, i don't think i would want to own it simply because of the cover, and the fact that some of my money would be going to pay someone who makes a living creating images such as that.. you think that mr. brown person uses his paintings as a masturbatory aid once he's finished with them? |
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How long did it take you to write all that? Sheech! |
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kinda funny how the discussions on this ep aren't about the music but about the cover, negative publicity still is publicity, pretty smart mr. funk :D |
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i started typing for a few minutes and had about half that.. then my crappy modem disconnected before i was able to post.. so i wrote some more until it reconnected. i'd like to hear some people's replies/defences.. i've thought quite a bit about how exposure to sex, violence, "perversion" etc affects us.. and i really think it's difficult to utilise it and do something constructive or positive with it in art without cancelling out anything positive by rousing up the very same unwanted thoughts in the viewer.. |
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"i've thought quite a bit about how exposure to sex, violence, "perversion" etc affects us" then why do you think you can't compare the discussion about this cover with murder etc. in violent movies? and how about fighting games, what are the use of these? |
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fighting games are mindless entertainment much like action movies. unless a game or movie has somewhat relatable characters and some type of plot or resolve, or conclusion/consequences that coincide with the characters actions, it has about as much profound meaning as a boxing match. |
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vsnares is mindless music too ^^ |
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I think with movies, literature, fighting games, basically all media, when you see agression you can't help become more agressive yourself. I know they have a negitive impact on me to an extent but in most cases I don't care because it's fun to watch. |
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yeah i like those boxing matches where people heads and legs fly around, i mean, if it wasn't for the fatalities i would even watch boxing |
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* people's |
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..but then again, even a boxing match could be sort of appreciated as a symbolically.. an example of life or something.. like "you get hit and knocked down, but get back up again and triumph" but the circumstances leading up to the match, and the end result really can't reflect much more about the world or make any needed point other than "sometimes fighting each other pays off" .. |
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Nah, it's just two guys bashing each other's brains in. |
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This drawing wouldn't have the effect of making a "non-paedophile" into a paedophile. I'm talking about men who are peodophiles already, getting off on this image. There are a lot more paedophiles in society than murderers. I think Trevor is brave in using borderline paedo images in his art which at least stimulates debate - I'm not one of those who think paedophiles are bad people, but an image like this can unwittingly start a cycle of abuse or "relapse" in a paedophile in the community, whoi is not normally exposed to images of sexulised children. |
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i don't know what you just said |
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i don't know if i would say that.. i have this "childkiller" song (or something like that) downloaded on my computer.. and it's seems to have some bit of point to it.. with the joan bonay ramsey samples and such.. i'd think he's trying to draw attention to the reality of what happened. i think snares walks the oft-trampled fine line between making just points about humankind/certain incidences and making no point other than to shock and disturb. i'm just really sick of people just trying to shock me, but then having nothing at all worthwhile to say. |
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i'm not particularly interested in the art vs pornography debate, because i think it depends on how an image is experienced, or used. an image can be art, or pornographic, or both. child pornography, however, is generally not just naked kids, as in the cover of "nevermind." i think our primary concern should be whether or not these sorts of images serve to legitimize (for individuals with pedophiliac tendencies) or promote the sexual exploitation of children. incidentally, the image reproduced in this thread doesn't really show all the detail in the actual artwork. before you respond to this concern, i would encourage people to research the prevalence of sexual predation in western culture, and try to understand the depth of psychological and physical pain that is inflicted on children by sexual predators. at the same time, do some research and read about how sexual predators attempt to justify their behavior, read their words about why they believe it is perfectly acceptable to sexually abuse children. you may find your attitude changed about this particular artwork. i wouldn't seek to ban artwork like this so much as i would seek to discourage people from promoting it. certainly the artist should be free to express himself. i think there is a valid argument, however, that some transgressive art can promote transgressive behavior in some people, though i don't see that as a valid argument for censorship. the highest price of freedom may be the abuse of freedom. as far as the music is concerned, i haven't heard it. the only vs i have is "songs about my cats" and a few odds and ends. for the record, to me it's mostly uninteresting noodling. |
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erm couldnt be arsed to read all this but... i bought it day it came out its not his best but i do like it the circuit bending is good but it does seem a bit samey artwork is very ermmm yer |
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